Talk me down from this Ledge

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#1 Tue, 11/17/2015 - 13:04
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Talk me down from this Ledge

Let me first start by saying that I love racing games.  I don’t care whether I finish 1st or last in a race.  I just enjoy the experience.  That is why this post disappoints me so much.  I have played FM6 for over a week straight and I am going to put it back on my shelf.  As most of you know I am a career type of player.  Meaning that because of my RL schedule I do the majority of my gaming in that area.  FM6 in the career mode properly stinks.  I am a sim type of guy.  Take a chance and you rightly pay for it.  Watch yourself in traffic and think about “If this was a RL race situation”, what would you do.  You wouldn’t try to fit a car into a space the size of a breadbox.  Stuff like that would get you damaged, penalized, suspended or just fired from your team by the stewards or your sponsor.  Throw in the Drivatar concept (so that my friends can race with my clean bot) and HOW THE HELL ARE YOU TO PLACE IN A RACE WITHOUT BEING A COMPLETE JERK!  At the start of many races (and it pains me to say this) the AI/Drivatars act as bad as the ones in Grid Autosport. 

During my recent series in FM6 I found my aggravation level increasing as I have to rerun the same at Bathhurst race over 5 times.  Then do it again in the next race, the next race, the next race ad nausea.  Why run a race on an easy level just to place top 3.  It’s just becomes hotlapping.  They have a section for that if I want it.

I found myself swearing at RacerPaul a buddy of mine who’s Drivatar prevented me numerous times from finishing in the top 3.  I’ve also found (and please correct me if I’m wrong) that in a multiplayer room I can’t set it up to run against a whole room of Drivatar’s.  It’s limiting me to only 5 of them and me.  Oh boy, 6 in a race.  I can do better with FM3.

I’m running out to GameStop and returning my copy of Project Cars for the PS4 and buying a new copy for the ONE.  Even with the glitches (which hopefully be mostly ironed out by now).  If the career mode is identical to the PS4 version then I will be a happy camper.  Because with PC I can sit back and just unwind and enjoy the experience which what these stupid games are supposed to do in the first place.  Life is too short to be aggravated by game developers who have their heads up their butts.

Tue, 11/17/2015 - 14:01
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I find that I have to put it down every now and again.  The last time I played the AI pissed me off so bad I closed Forza down and haven't played it in a week or two.  Honestly though I have had the same issues in Project Cars and F1 2015.  Not to the same degree mind you but still the AI sometimes just pisses me off.  In F1 2015 I had an AI come all the way across the track and put me into the wall then I got the warning for causing a collision.  Meh 

I haven't played Project Cars in a while because the frame slow down issue I was having that they basically acted like they had no clue anyone was having.  Maybe I'll boot it up later today and run a few laps.

Overall we all need to take a break every now and then.  

Tue, 11/17/2015 - 17:56
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Well you got it out of your system so that probably helps.

But I can't lie to you and the fact of the matter is if you want to race in career against your own caliber (assuming you're not faster than the fastest AI) it's near impossible to podium and do it cleanly in a career race. You can find a happy medium but the battles just aren't intense if you're clearly faster than your opponents.

Assuming credits aren't much of an issue (they shouldn't be this game gives them out in spades which is one of its best attributes) I've learned you can set up practice races and make the race length 10-20+ laps. Whatever it takes to set the AI near to your skill level, or Parcells favorite "just slightly slower than me" so that you can progress to the podium without being a complete jerk about it. The credits didn't seem to be as plentiful as regular career races but its one way to overcome the ridiculous career scenarios Turn10 created for a given race.

Hell, Parcells barely plays but has recently amassed just over 10 mill credits so there's a decent chance he may never do a career race again, yippee! :)

Wed, 11/18/2015 - 01:27 (Reply to #3)
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My problem is that I could give a rat's a** about making the podium.  It's the game that forces me to do it or rerun the stupid race again.  I'm perfectly happy finishing wherever and getting less credits, etc.  It's the journey and not the destination thing.  I ran Bathhurst 5 times, then Catalunya 3 times then Road Atlanta 3 times.  Each time I gave up on the sim part and trying to pretend I was a RL race driver and just became a D***.  I apologize to my friends for the way my Drivatar is going act.

I have PC on my One.  Enjoying it.  And I have found that as I believe you said in some earlier post that I would be very happy with the AI and being able to setup up qualifying etc.  You were right.  With the 25+ hours I had in on my son's PS4 I got to the state of mind where I'd zone out for x amount of time and forget about the cares of the world.   In video games "I get to drive cars that I could never afford at speeds I could never hope to attain." The AI is very courteous most of the time.  And I found myself learning a few things by watching them.

And I learned not to drive at night in the F1 cars at Infineon.  They have no headlights.  And Infineon really doesn't have many street lights.  lol.

Wed, 11/18/2015 - 08:32
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Unfortunately you have to podium to advance. But, after that you can run the race anytime you want, (insert smiley face here).

Many of us have been avoiding the "career" if that's what it is and just doing online or rivals.

I really haven't had anissue getting to the podium, first place is sometimes up in the air, but I've heard that there's a glitch at lower difficulties that inserts a harder drivatar sometimes. Maybe bumping it up gets rid of the outlier?

I still hate the damn 2-3 lap runs. Totally crap. I can see why they exist, but make that the default and have it adjustable upwards. A 10 lapper would be more sane and you wouldn't have to push and stress, actually drive like a sane individual.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 00:12 (Reply to #5)
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Oldschool 2o4f wrote:

Many of us have been avoiding the "career" if that's what it is and just doing online or rivals.

What a shame to have to "avoid" a part of the game.  I like to spend time on all parts of a game that I've plunked down my hard earned cash.  True, this was one of the free games that came with the bundle tease.  But I still had to part with $500 to get the system, etc.  I spent time figuring out Grid Autosport and got to love the Custom Cup mode.  I could do just what Parcells was talking about.  Making up my own scenarios.  I'd spend hours just running let's say the Indycars on the street tracks.  Literally.  I found myself looking at the clock and it's 4am.

And my shame comment was meant for the T10 people not you School.  I am loving your paints in FM6. 

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 06:45 (Reply to #6)
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oldmodelt wrote:

 

Oldschool 2o4f wrote:

 

Many of us have been avoiding the "career" if that's what it is and just doing online or rivals.

 

 

What a shame to have to "avoid" a part of the game.  I like to spend time on all parts of a game that I've plunked down my hard earned cash.  True, this was one of the free games that came with the bundle tease.  But I still had to part with $500 to get the system, etc.  I spent time figuring out Grid Autosport and got to love the Custom Cup mode.  I could do just what Parcells was talking about.  Making up my own scenarios.  I'd spend hours just running let's say the Indycars on the street tracks.  Literally.  I found myself looking at the clock and it's 4am.

And my shame comment was meant for the T10 people not you School.  I am loving your paints in FM6. 

My painting in Fm6 is not as prolific as I'd like. The real world is getting in the way in new and challenging scenarios of late. BUT I try to get some stuff out, though much of it is NOT as detailed as I'd like.

If anyone has a specific car they'd like, please ask. If I can afford it, I'll do it up.

Wed, 11/18/2015 - 18:48
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Work schedule doesn't allow me to join in on a lot of the 2O4F racing so I have been going through the career mode when I'm not answering Sarcasmo's rival challenges.

The AI glitch is still there somewhat.  I was racing a Clio RS in a Hot Hatch series last night and noticed that 1st and sometimes 2nd place will jump out to a large lead.  I think the fix T10 put in place is depending on the size of the lead their pace seems to slow on the last lap.

On the occasions where I'm not able to place in the top three, I'll usually add a boost or crew mod to give me a little bit of help without having to adjust the drivatar difficulty.  I don't know if it'll help but another option is to enable Limit Drivatar Aggression.  If the drivatars are a bit too unruly this might make them a bit easier to race against.

FWIW here's VoodooUomo's explanation why there's a limit on the number of AI per player in custom lobbies.

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/turn10_postsm354884_posts.aspx#post_35...

Quote:
Let me try to add a bit of clarity to this issue. FM6 does restrict every player to 5 drivatars in multiplayer. So to get to a full 24 player lobby with drivatars you need 4 human players.

There are technical reasons for this: there is CPU and network overhead involved in playing in multiplayer. When you're racing in multiplayer we have to use your CPU and network connection to send updates to the server (which then sends those updates to everybody else) about what you and your car are doing.

When you're running drivatars in a multiplayer lobby, each drivatar gets an "owner". This is the player whose console does the processing and sends the updates for the drivatar's car. This takes CPU and network upload bandwidth, and uses more of both the more cars you're controlling on your console. To make sure you can run at a flawless 60 fps and use as little bandwidth as possible (so that the game doesn't hog your connection and works for those of you on slower connections), we set that restriction to 5 drivatars per console/connection.

That's the explanation for what is happening and why. That said, we've heard you loud and clear. And we know you're looking for a specific experience (racing a full field of certain cars or car types) that you can't get in Free Play and are turning to multiplayer for that. We're always listening trying our best to provide you with the experiences you want.

I hope that the technical explanation helps, if only a little bit.

Wed, 11/18/2015 - 23:52
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Thank you all for your response.  I initially erred on my tracks listed in the 1st post.  It was Long Beach instead of Catalunya that I reran.  I ran Catalunya just once.  A purist always (but Ziggy_Proline calls me a masochist. I have yet to use the mods Shaggy. And the stupid streak in me doesn't limit the AI aggression.  If I'm driving clean why would they be angry?  lol.  Somehow it seems like cheating or a flashback to my GT4 days where you'd load up on the upgrades to slaughter the AI.   And you are right School, 2-3 lappers is not nearly long enough to drive clean and podium (at least I can't).  Long Beach with the sweeping right hander at the start/finish line to the first set of tight turns looks more like an accident site.  I love the track but getting through there untouched.  ROFLMAO.  

Thu, 11/19/2015 - 06:56
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It's doable, I have issues usually at the hairpin just after that at the fountain or whatever it is.

The mods will gather up a couple badges/acheivements and you get them with the spins, so as I'm not real into the career thing I'll use them just to get rid of them. I feel that by getting them instead of cars n cash I'm damn well going to use them. That said, I forget to all the time...

Thu, 11/19/2015 - 14:21
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Long Beach Turn 1 through the fountain complex is always a mess on the first lap.  Same with the final hairpin.  Word of warning, if my Drivatar is behind you heading into that final hairpin, there's a good chance he'll divebomb to the inside if you leave him an opening.

For a truly WTF moment you gotta love how the Drivatars handle Silverstone's Vale through Club corner in the wet.

Also, the races do get longer in the later volumes but they still may not be long enough for your tastes.

 

Fri, 11/20/2015 - 11:37 (Reply to #11)
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Shaggy_SoCal wrote:

Long Beach Turn 1 through the fountain complex is always a mess on the first lap.  Same with the final hairpin.  Word of warning, if my Drivatar is behind you heading into that final hairpin, there's a good chance he'll divebomb to the inside if you leave him an opening.

For a truly WTF moment you gotta love how the Drivatars handle Silverstone's Vale through Club corner in the wet.

Also, the races do get longer in the later volumes but they still may not be long enough for your tastes.

 

Thanks for the piece from T10 in the above post.  I don't like it about the public lobby Drivatars but can work with it.

Fri, 11/20/2015 - 12:56
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Is there anytime remotely possible to get on with others?

Fri, 11/20/2015 - 22:36 (Reply to #13)
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Oldschool 2o4f wrote:

Is there anytime remotely possible to get on with others?

You've seen me on occasionally in the early pm before work.  But my prime time is 11pm-2am CST.  So that is why I'm a career type of racer.  I enjoy the rooms with the buddies for the jokes.  But running a room with 3-5 guys sometimes is almost like hot lapping.  I am a masochist I guess.  Today I ran a 15 lapper with PC and I just focus on the crowd ahead of me and zone out.  It's actually quite relaxing.  I got in to it during my GT4 days.  They had a lot of enduro type race series, 20 laps on LeMans, 30-40 laps on Trial Mountain, Deep Forest, Laguna Seca those type of races.  GT4 had a simplified damage system.  Hit something too hard and get rewarded with either a penalty pitstop or the rev limiter depending on who was running the series.  So I got used to not doing the bump & grind.  Nothing hurts worse (other than running out of gas) then having a few required penalty pit stops added to your race.  Most of the time I was middle of the pack in the standings against the speedsters.  But it's the "journey" again.

I do enjoy the TT's etc and finish middle of the pack wise most of the time.

Fri, 11/20/2015 - 17:32
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You realy should turn "Drivatar agression" off, it changes the behavior from something that would get you banned from even spectating at a race track in real life to mostly fair but hard racing opponents.

I've had multiple half lap side by side races with the a.i. At the first turn stay as tight inside as you can and don't try to gain much upon entry, leave the outside for the i.a. carnage. S#*t's gonna happen at T1 though, can't be helped.

Sat, 11/21/2015 - 22:10
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I'm gonna just turn off damage for a while and drive like an idiot to get through the early stages of the career.  Sorry for how my Drivatar messes with you.  I do enjoy the format somewhat.  I like the fact that there is only one cockpit view.  Some times in the FM4 game I would throw in cockpit view in multiplayer but aside from being an acquired taste (mine) if someone did not previously set this option up for their screen it wasn't to their liking.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 10:01
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Almost every racing game requires you to get podium to proceed onto the next race in the series.

I agree that the first lap is terrible, especially the first corner, but after that they start to space out. Are you using any driving assist? Turning some of these off will help speed you up over the AI.

Sun, 11/29/2015 - 09:27 (Reply to #17)
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Old Melty D is a purist. He turns everything off, even swears at the AI and shakes his fist as he passes...and don't let him kid you, he can hold his own on the track with a little practice. He just doesn't like to scratch his paint.

Sun, 11/29/2015 - 14:00 (Reply to #18)
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Oldschool 2o4f wrote:

Old Melty D is a purist. He turns everything off, even swears at the AI and shakes his fist as he passes...and don't let him kid you, he can hold his own on the track with a little practice. He just doesn't like to scratch his paint.

You hit the dull nail on the head my friend.  I am loving Project Cars.  Got through the Super Karts (again).  1st time with the PS4.  This time with the ONE.  Now doing the UK Clio series.  I do use TCS & STM.  But once my old reflexes get better they should go too.  I just adjust the length of the races, qualifying etc. to how I feel at the time.  I CHOOSE THE PARAMETERS.  And then finish in the middle of the pack usually.  I have even turned off the restarts feature.  You then have to tone down your racing style a little more.  One slip up in an 8 lapper or at the start and you are done.  Especially when I force myself to wait until traffic clears before I can get back on the track.

The funny thing about paints is I'm lucky to have guys like you to borrow off.  At least with FM6.  And I never shake my fist in career.  I do swear a lot though.  The AI isn't responsible for their actions.  But I haven't with PC.  If I screw (when I screw up),  I just go on.  I did it to myself.   And I only chuckle under my breath at a speedster who is in the dirt in the lobbies.  They will soon be in my rear view mirror again. 

I am in the process of sending out FR for those not on my list.  If only for some names to compare against in the TT's and Community events.  So if you decide not to friend me I understand.

Sun, 11/29/2015 - 19:27
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I have added some to my list but I guess I need to go back in and confirm others who have added me to their list?

Tue, 12/01/2015 - 15:39
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I actually find the AI racing in the career mode, with Driver Aggression set to OFF, to be better as far as crashes than the league racing with humans.  More often than not, I get rear ended by a human at least once in a league race.  I almost never get rear ended by the AI.  

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:02
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Let me take a moment to thank you folks for stopping me from jumping off.  My initial frustration stemmed from the fact that I had a very good game which even after I exchanged the PS4 version for the ONE (Project Cars) for a total cost of $70.00 is a very good game albeit with some nagging little glitches still.  And I had bought a new system and used the free game option and had gotten (FM6) which I’m not disappointed with.  After a few more sessions and learning the physics and taking off damage etc. I have become much more comfortable with FM6.  “Free Play” operates very similar to the “Custom Cup” section in Grid Autosport which can replace online for me because of my RL schedule and provide me with a full room.  And unlike custom cup I actually get the credits, etc. to level up that was not avail. in the Grid Autosport game.

I have also started to do the “Rivals” which adhere to the FM philosophy of clean is always better.  Which always put me atop the faster but dirty lappers.  But seeing that I’ve chosen a female driver for my game that should make the dirty guys happy.

I’m going to start attempting the enduros during the holiday period when my refereeing duties die down.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:57
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I'm pushing through the career stuff ( whatever they call it) and started using some of the mod stuff (whatever they call it) and doing rivals/pick up lobby's and painting in between RL stuff (whatever they call it).

mainly because I need 300 or so points for the next tier/creduts level and I'm greeedy, that and I am still buying cars quicker than I can afford them.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 12:23 (Reply to #23)
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Oldschool 2o4f wrote:

mainly because I need 300 or so points for the next tier/creduts level and I'm greeedy, that and I am still buying cars quicker than I can afford them.

I have bought only one car to date and that was by mistake.  The stingy streak in me prevents me from spending money real or pretend.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 12:53 (Reply to #24)
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oldmodelt wrote:

 

Oldschool 2o4f wrote:

 

mainly because I need 300 or so points for the next tier/creduts level and I'm greeedy, that and I am still buying cars quicker than I can afford them.

 

 

I have bought only one car to date and that was by mistake.  The stingy streak in me prevents me from spending money real or pretend.

Well, I COULD do that, but you can't paint what you don't have, and others can't get what I don't paint, sooooo...

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 22:56 (Reply to #25)
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Oldschool 2o4f wrote:

 

oldmodelt wrote:

 

 

Oldschool 2o4f wrote:

 

mainly because I need 300 or so points for the next tier/creduts level and I'm greeedy, that and I am still buying cars quicker than I can afford them.

 

 

I have bought only one car to date and that was by mistake.  The stingy streak in me prevents me from spending money real or pretend.

 

 

Well, I COULD do that, but you can't paint what you don't have, and others can't get what I don't paint, sooooo...

Tis a shame you can't make credits off of them like in past games.

Fri, 12/04/2015 - 06:11 (Reply to #26)
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oldmodelt wrote:

 

Oldschool 2o4f wrote:

 

 

oldmodelt wrote:

 

 

Oldschool 2o4f wrote:

 

mainly because I need 300 or so points for the next tier/creduts level and I'm greeedy, that and I am still buying cars quicker than I can afford them.

 

 

I have bought only one car to date and that was by mistake.  The stingy streak in me prevents me from spending money real or pretend.

 

 

Well, I COULD do that, but you can't paint what you don't have, and others can't get what I don't paint, sooooo...

 

 

Tis a shame you can't make credits off of them like in past games.

I am, but it's harder to get your stuff out there. Storefront outperformed the current set up for myself. I'm sure the bigger names are doing quite well.

The only real restriction I can see is that when you come across a painter you like, you can't look at all their stuff at once like in days past, you have to equip a car to see if the painter even has a paint for that car. I can remember looking at a painters storefront and buying 6 or 7 paints sometimes before I even had the car.

Interestingly enough though, I put a Ferrari paint (250 LM) out on the T-10 forums (and here) and did a second paint, same car, but red instead of black, with no picture anywhere, and the red paint is still outperforming the black, and they are identical except for the base paint.

Fri, 12/04/2015 - 08:19
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Ferraris are red.

Fri, 12/04/2015 - 11:13 (Reply to #28)
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Parcells2 wrote:

Ferraris are red.

Books are red....heh.

For what Ferrari's cost, they can be any color the buyer wants...

Thu, 12/31/2015 - 02:32
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Thu, 12/31/2015 - 06:27 (Reply to #30)

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