Looks like D2 will actually have a hybrid form of servers. All PVE and PVP will be hosted by a D2 server, not a player. This is what I got from the latest TWAB:
Code Words
As we moved through the crowd of Guardians last week, many of you asked important questions about how Destiny 2's networking model will work. The technology we use to bring players together in the world of the game touches on so many crucial topics. We know that you’re curious about everything from how your shots land to the protective measures we’ll take to keep the community ecosystem safe. These topics deserve careful statements from the people who own the code, and a noisy aircraft hangar isn’t the best place to do them justice.
Now that the dust has settled and the ringing in our ears has started to subside, I sat down with Matt Segur, Engineering Lead on Destiny 2, to get some answers for you.
Matt: We've seen a lot of people asking about how the networking model works for Destiny 2. Many are concerned by our announcement last week that Destiny 2 doesn't have dedicated servers. While that’s useful shorthand, the full answer is more complex because Destiny has a unique networking model. Rest assured that we’re doing a lot of testing right now with players all around the world, and working hard to make sure that your experience is going to be smooth on launch day.
So why no dedicated servers?
Matt: Every activity in Destiny 2 is hosted by one of our servers. That means you will never again suffer a host migration during your Raid attempt or Trials match. This differs from Destiny 1, where these hosting duties were performed by player consoles and only script and mission logic ran in the data center. To understand the foundation on which we’re building, check out this Destiny 1 presentation from GDC. Using the terms from this talk, in Destiny 2, both the Mission Host and Physics Host will run in our data centers.
Wait, so we do have dedicated servers?
Matt: We don't use that term, because in the gaming community, “dedicated servers” refers to pure client-server networking models. Destiny 2 uses a hybrid of client-server and peer-to-peer technology, just like Destiny 1. The server is authoritative over how the game progresses, and each player is authoritative over their own movement and abilities. This allows us to give players the feeling of immediacy in all their moving and shooting – no matter where they live and no matter whom they choose to play with.
Why peer-to-peer? Are we trying to save money?
Matt: Nope! We've invested heavily in new server infrastructure for Destiny 2, including using cloud servers for gameplay for the first time. We really believe this is the best model for all of Destiny 2's varied cooperative and competitive experiences. Engineering will always involve tradeoffs and cost-benefit analysis, but as a team we’ve got no regrets about the unique technology we’ve built for Destiny 2.
This could explain those situations where you thought you beat a boss but didn't. You thought a door didn't open but it did.
The part which remains peer to peer could actually turn out to be worse than previously. No host migration is built into D2. That's great if the host is good. What if the host's connection goes down the toilet? How bad will the gaming get before something gets corrected? What if bad hosts are automatically selected over and over like we've seen in old Halo?
With Bungie it's always trust us, we're listening, we'll make adjustments based on player feedback.
Sorry Bungie, I don't trust you. That's why I don't buy your season passes anymore.
I'm hoping we'll be able to break enough stuff in the Beta to put this "unique technology" through a good workout. PvE in Destiny has, mostly, been a good experience, it's just the Crucible where we really see the issues with the current system.
To me, and my limited understanding of the tech involved, it sounds like Bungie is moving more stuff to their servers and to the cloud, so I'm not really sure what is left as peer-to-peer.
I'm not sure what's left as peer to peer either, exactly. Networking is complicated, and sound bites don't help much. He does say that your Xbox is authoritative ***for your movement***. But presumably your position ***as a target*** will be whatever the server says it is. So when someone lag switches, they may be able to teleport around a bit, but should no longer go invulnerable like they used to. If Bungie achieves this, I'll be pretty happy.
Just added this as a comment on the latest, posted GIF about the European Dead Zone social space:
What would be really cool would be if they could do virtual conversations in this place. Have your audio pick up others voices at a volume that would represent the distance from you and the loudness which a person speaks. Someone whispering at 3 meters would not be heard but a person shouting would! Face to face would be clear, voices at a distance heard but not necessarily understood.
(probably should have a mute individual capability)
I think The Division's voice chat works like you describe, doorgunner. At least in some parts of the game (e.g. the Dark Zone). The Elder Scrolls Online has or had it as well. So there are games in which you could try it out, if you really wanted. As I recall, it didn't work very well. Mostly it reminds you of how noisy the average living rooms is.
So I pre-ordered Destiny 2 directly from the Microsoft Store via Xbox Live back in May. Is there anything else I need to do to ensure access the Beta when it arrives? I keep hearing about codes, but I don't see anything that looks like a code in my online receipt.
So I pre-ordered Destiny 2 directly from the Microsoft Store via Xbox Live back in May. Is there anything else I need to do to ensure access the Beta when it arrives? I keep hearing about codes, but I don't see anything that looks like a code in my online receipt.
From what I've read and experienced in the past, there is no code required for digital orders. Just start the game from the icon you now have and it will download when available.
I believe DEEP is correct. Those of us that pre-ordered through the MS Store should be automatically enrolled in the beta. At least, this is my understanding because I haven't seen a code.
I'm hoping Bungie will announce the size of the beta with this week's update. My XB1 HD is getting full, so I want to make sure I have room. I plan to buy an external drive, but was hoping to wait until closer to launch of the game.
To download the beta on Xbox, you need to go to store and search for Destiny 2. The beta application will show up as a result of the search, and you can select and download it. It's downloading for me right now. 12.83 GB.
If you go into the Inverted Spire and just explore you can find a few interesting things. Kill some Fallen Dregs and take their Pikes. Roam safely across the rivers on the Pikes. At some point a bunch of man cannons formed over a river and you could ride them around in a big loop starting from the base of a big tree.
Didn't get on until late last evening, and thankfully didn't encounter any of the errors that were being reported earlier.
Only had time to play the strike and a couple of crucible matches - I just could not get the shield to throw the few times I had a super, but bashing enemies with it was quite satisfying.
Sweet Business!!! Shot that thing every time I had ammo for it.
Movement felt a tad bit slower; Titan skate has been changed - used to be able to time the button press just right so he would zoom forward if you hit the jump button a second time just before hitting the ground - now he still pops up into the air. Me no likey.
Look forward to playing some crucible with some folks tonight
The Titan "skating" has certainly been changed from what we've been used to playing for so long. In the long run though, I think it's a good change.
I basically just played each character through "Homecoming" last night and ran a handful of Control matches last night. I haven't tried the strike yet.
Crucible is certainly a little bit different now, but I'm liking the 4v4 matches. In fact, the maps are designed in a way it doesn't really seem like the teams are smaller. I'm also glad it's more about the primary gunplay and not everybody running around with shotguns. I like the direction they are taking the Crucible.
Impressive summary!
Looks like D2 will actually have a hybrid form of servers. All PVE and PVP will be hosted by a D2 server, not a player. This is what I got from the latest TWAB:
This could explain those situations where you thought you beat a boss but didn't. You thought a door didn't open but it did.
The part which remains peer to peer could actually turn out to be worse than previously. No host migration is built into D2. That's great if the host is good. What if the host's connection goes down the toilet? How bad will the gaming get before something gets corrected? What if bad hosts are automatically selected over and over like we've seen in old Halo?
With Bungie it's always trust us, we're listening, we'll make adjustments based on player feedback.
Sorry Bungie, I don't trust you. That's why I don't buy your season passes anymore.
I'm hoping we'll be able to break enough stuff in the Beta to put this "unique technology" through a good workout. PvE in Destiny has, mostly, been a good experience, it's just the Crucible where we really see the issues with the current system.
To me, and my limited understanding of the tech involved, it sounds like Bungie is moving more stuff to their servers and to the cloud, so I'm not really sure what is left as peer-to-peer.
Thanks for the article, Achy! Thought provoking.
I'm not sure what's left as peer to peer either, exactly. Networking is complicated, and sound bites don't help much. He does say that your Xbox is authoritative ***for your movement***. But presumably your position ***as a target*** will be whatever the server says it is. So when someone lag switches, they may be able to teleport around a bit, but should no longer go invulnerable like they used to. If Bungie achieves this, I'll be pretty happy.
Just added this as a comment on the latest, posted GIF about the European Dead Zone social space:
What would be really cool would be if they could do virtual conversations in this place. Have your audio pick up others voices at a volume that would represent the distance from you and the loudness which a person speaks. Someone whispering at 3 meters would not be heard but a person shouting would! Face to face would be clear, voices at a distance heard but not necessarily understood.
(probably should have a mute individual capability)
I wonder what doorgunner wants to whisper in our ears?
You'll never know, I want to talk to that cute, female warlock over there! lol
I think The Division's voice chat works like you describe, doorgunner. At least in some parts of the game (e.g. the Dark Zone). The Elder Scrolls Online has or had it as well. So there are games in which you could try it out, if you really wanted. As I recall, it didn't work very well. Mostly it reminds you of how noisy the average living rooms is.
Early Access to Open Beta!!!! Today's E3 Trailer. Lookin' good.
It now seems like the official release will be on September 6 (I originally understood it to be September 8). https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/6gwta3/destiny_2_september_6th/
You're right. From Bungie's page:
Thanks for the information guys. Just a little over one month before the beta!
IGN.com will begin a month of Destiny 2 "Firsts" starting July 5.
First episode will be a tour of The Farm social space.
Nice. Thanks DEEP!
Open beta trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGoVfjwYhis&feature=youtu.be
Chickens and a soccer field at The Farm. Doesn't look like we can punt the chickens, though... Cancelling my preorder
So I pre-ordered Destiny 2 directly from the Microsoft Store via Xbox Live back in May. Is there anything else I need to do to ensure access the Beta when it arrives? I keep hearing about codes, but I don't see anything that looks like a code in my online receipt.
People who pre-order disks need a code.
I believe DEEP is correct. Those of us that pre-ordered through the MS Store should be automatically enrolled in the beta. At least, this is my understanding because I haven't seen a code.
I'm hoping Bungie will announce the size of the beta with this week's update. My XB1 HD is getting full, so I want to make sure I have room. I plan to buy an external drive, but was hoping to wait until closer to launch of the game.
The preload for the beta supposedly begins at 10 am Pacific today.
https://www.polygon.com/2017/7/12/15962384/destiny-2-beta-download-time-ps4-xbox-one
Yup, that's what I've been reading too.
To download the beta on Xbox, you need to go to store and search for Destiny 2. The beta application will show up as a result of the search, and you can select and download it. It's downloading for me right now. 12.83 GB.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-US/store/p/Destiny-2---Beta/C1NCRZ3D1P18
Beta now available in the store for download. Download is approximately 12.83 GB.
Successfully downloaded the Beta!
Downloaded last night. Started at around 40 mb/s then slowed to a crawl until the very end. Took forever but at least it is there.
If you go into the Inverted Spire and just explore you can find a few interesting things. Kill some Fallen Dregs and take their Pikes. Roam safely across the rivers on the Pikes. At some point a bunch of man cannons formed over a river and you could ride them around in a big loop starting from the base of a big tree.
Initial random observations:
Didn't get on until late last evening, and thankfully didn't encounter any of the errors that were being reported earlier.
Only had time to play the strike and a couple of crucible matches - I just could not get the shield to throw the few times I had a super, but bashing enemies with it was quite satisfying.
Sweet Business!!! Shot that thing every time I had ammo for it.
Movement felt a tad bit slower; Titan skate has been changed - used to be able to time the button press just right so he would zoom forward if you hit the jump button a second time just before hitting the ground - now he still pops up into the air. Me no likey.
Look forward to playing some crucible with some folks tonight
The Titan "skating" has certainly been changed from what we've been used to playing for so long. In the long run though, I think it's a good change.
I basically just played each character through "Homecoming" last night and ran a handful of Control matches last night. I haven't tried the strike yet.
Crucible is certainly a little bit different now, but I'm liking the 4v4 matches. In fact, the maps are designed in a way it doesn't really seem like the teams are smaller. I'm also glad it's more about the primary gunplay and not everybody running around with shotguns. I like the direction they are taking the Crucible.