ummm The Pit was a great map don't get me wrong, it was definitely the best Halo 3 map hands down. It's one of MLG's best maps at the time. Asymmetrical for competitive play. BUT, The Pit was the best map of a game that had no good maps. Of course everyone played it cause it was one of the only good maps. If Halo 3 came out with 1-2 more maps that were of epic proportions, the Pit would not be as popular as it is today... just sayin
ummm The Pit was a great map don't get me wrong, it was definitely the best Halo 3 map hands down. It's one of MLG's best maps at the time. Asymmetrical for competitive play. BUT, The Pit was the best map of a game that had no good maps. Of course everyone played it cause it was one of the only good maps. If Halo 3 came out with 1-2 more maps that were of epic proportions, the Pit would not be as popular as it is today... just sayin
You are out of your goddamned mind. If you were looking for a great asymmetrical map, I think you meant to say "Guardian". Besides, "epic" is pretty subjective.
The case you're really referring to is "Blackout". Spoiled chumps whined until they got Lockout back, but then whined because of a few changes made to it. Yes, I get it. It played slightly differently. Adjust.
ummm The Pit was a great map don't get me wrong, it was definitely the best Halo 3 map hands down. It's one of MLG's best maps at the time. Asymmetrical for competitive play. BUT, The Pit was the best map of a game that had no good maps. Of course everyone played it cause it was one of the only good maps. If Halo 3 came out with 1-2 more maps that were of epic proportions, the Pit would not be as popular as it is today... just sayin
I don't think you played the same game I did.
1. The Pit = symmetrical
2. no good maps? compared to what? granted the ratio of good to bad was small, but I dare say they are better than what we got with Reach, and Pit is included in the better part of the good.
ummm The Pit was a great map don't get me wrong, it was definitely the best Halo 3 map hands down. It's one of MLG's best maps at the time. Asymmetrical for competitive play. BUT, The Pit was the best map of a game that had no good maps. Of course everyone played it cause it was one of the only good maps. If Halo 3 came out with 1-2 more maps that were of epic proportions, the Pit would not be as popular as it is today... just sayin
I don't think you played the same game I did.
1. The Pit = symmetrical
2. no good maps? compared to what? granted the ratio of good to bad was small, but I dare say they are better than what we got with Reach, and Pit is included in the better part of the good.
The pit worked because it functioned for 3-4 gametypes, and did it well for all of them. It didn't end up my favorite but it sure is close.
ok i made a typo, i put an "a" in front of symmetrical, my bad. Secondly, i considered the Pit and Guardian as the 2 best maps from Halo 3. the point i was trying to make is that sure the Pit is a great map but it ain't considered in the top 4 of all the Halo maps... Midship, Beaver Creek, Sanctuary, Hang'em High, Blood Gulch even are all ahead of it. So my point, it was good but it ain't the end all be all...
ummm The Pit was a great map don't get me wrong, it was definitely the best Halo 3 map hands down. It's one of MLG's best maps at the time. Asymmetrical for competitive play. BUT, The Pit was the best map of a game that had no good maps. Of course everyone played it cause it was one of the only good maps. If Halo 3 came out with 1-2 more maps that were of epic proportions, the Pit would not be as popular as it is today... just sayin
I don't think you played the same game I did.
1. The Pit = symmetrical
2. no good maps? compared to what? granted the ratio of good to bad was small, but I dare say they are better than what we got with Reach, and Pit is included in the better part of the good.
The pit worked because it functioned for 3-4 gametypes, and did it well for all of them. It didn't end up my favorite but it sure is close.
ok i made a typo, i put an "a" in front of symmetrical, my bad. Secondly, i considered the Pit and Guardian as the 2 best maps from Halo 3. the point i was trying to make is that sure the Pit is a great map but it ain't considered in the top 4 of all the Halo maps... Midship, Beaver Creek, Sanctuary, Hang'em High, Blood Gulch even are all ahead of it. So my point, it was good but it ain't the end all be all...
Don't listen to him, guys. He's Canadian. Also, he works in a nuclear power plant.
I feel it had easy access to many useful weapons. In particular: sword, snipers, and (my two favorites) dual SMGs and dual maulers. Guardian was my favorite Halo 3 base map, though.
At it's simplist, what Deep said. I would add that it offered plenty of cover but not so much that it was restrictive.
It's mirror image design is part of what made it easy to orient oneself on spawn or re-spawn. The simplistic color scheme (muted and basic but not monotone in nature) allowed for easily distinguished call-out areas and was the other thing that made orientation easy.
It provided a very well balanced mix of long sight lines, medium sight lines, and close quarters areas for people of varying playing styles to have areas where their strengths could shine. The placement of power weapons and power-ups made it necesary to fight over the middle of the map rather than just trying to hold one side or one corner against incursion by your opponents. For those of us for whom the BR is king, there were enough of them on the map that no one ever need feel short-changed by a lack of them (not that it didn't occasionally happen but it usually wasn't a problem, at least not for long). The simple lines and flat surfaces of it all made grenade bounces and bullet ricochets fairly predictable (unlike any outdoor map or covie map).
It was just large enough that it was extremely hard to spawn-lock the other team but not so large that you'd ever go too long without encountering an enemy.
All in all The Pit is a great map. Not my favorite, but still a great map. I hope when H4 comes out they include a map with a similar aesthetic but that's not simply a re-make of The Pit.
I have to agree with Deep on this. The only other thing I will add is that it had a great play on the Z axis. How you traveled from space to space and gained high ground mattered. It felt like it was split up so that it allowed for different skirmishes to break out in interesting areas.
I'm an LD level Halo player. But every time I played the Pit, I was able to get a lot of kills by spamming nades into the sword room and giving someone a facefull of shotgun as he ran screaming from the blast.
It seemed to have different spots for every style of player - campy spots for shotty/sword whores, power weapons for rocket whores, long lines of sight for sniping and several areas for CQC as well. This is my second favorite map (Standoff is first) in H3. I would like to see remake of this because it was so fun to play, but I also agree with Honor in hopes that 343 rolls out a similar styled map and not just a re-hash.
I thought you were just going for H3 maps, if we are including every game then The Pit doesn't make top 7.
What about Chiron Whistlefuck 434, or whatever that map is that you were talking about from CE?
That one is barely Top 8...
I'd put it above every Reach launch map though.
HA. Zealot, Boardwalk, Sword Base, and Reflection are better, at least.
It's funny. It's like we're not even playing the same game, to have two wildly different views on things like this. I guess that should be a testament to how pliable the Halo multiplayer sandbox is.
I thought you were just going for H3 maps, if we are including every game then The Pit doesn't make top 7.
What about Chiron Whistlefuck 434, or whatever that map is that you were talking about from CE?
That one is barely Top 8...
I'd put it above every Reach launch map though.
HA. Zealot, Boardwalk, Sword Base, and Reflection are better, at least.
It's funny. It's like we're not even playing the same game, to have two wildly different views on things like this. I guess that should be a testament to how pliable the Halo multiplayer sandbox is.
You really think Chiron is better than the maps I listed? that was the only one I was talking about. Chiron is an abomination.
I thought you were just going for H3 maps, if we are including every game then The Pit doesn't make top 7.
What about Chiron Whistlefuck 434, or whatever that map is that you were talking about from CE?
That one is barely Top 8...
I'd put it above every Reach launch map though.
HA. Zealot, Boardwalk, Sword Base, and Reflection are better, at least.
It's funny. It's like we're not even playing the same game, to have two wildly different views on things like this. I guess that should be a testament to how pliable the Halo multiplayer sandbox is.
You really think Chiron is better than the maps I listed? that was the only one I was talking about. Chiron is an abomination.
No, I was responding to the ones you named. Chiron Humperdink 872 is unknown to me. Never played it. I think I'm pretty sure I know of what map you're referring, though.
I would probably put the Pit at 6 or 7 in my top 10. Halo2 had such a good group of competitive maps. The Pit was a great map, but it goes against everything that I think makes a great map. No controlable center, alot of power weopons and it feels somewhat unbalanced with sword area. I did love it though and I think it had some great open lanes for shooting and the powers weapons where worth fighting for and it was one of the few MLG system maps where you could collect yourself before going back into battle.
You guys are comparing maps from 3 different games. Halo 2 is not Halo 3 is not Reach. How awesome is Pit with Armor Lock? How much better is Sanctuary without DMR's? Remember when Construct broke because everyone kept jetpacking instead of taking the lifts? Or when guys kept throwing down bubbles on Burial Mounds? Me neither.
To me Reflection is the best example. I remember liking Ivory Tower but now cringe to vote for Reflection. "Oh great, our initial spawn is behind the elevator and when I go up the lift to get snipe I'm going to get rocketed by a jetpacker." "Oh look, my used to be awesome sword just got blocked by an Armor Lock." "Where in the fuck am I getting shot from? Crap, I forgot they can now jetpack onto the top of all the pillars on the map."
What played well on one won't always play well on another. Especially now. Now with each map the creator has to figure out how everyone's going to screw it up using AA's.
Overall I have always like symmetrical maps. I want to feel like I'm getting a fair shake. Very few seem to make me feel that way when they aren't symmetrical. Citadel, Isolation, Narrows and Pit were some of my favorite maps and now Select, Synapse, and Enclosed are ones I enjoy in Reach.
Pit was great because of some of the reasons already given about different lanes and distances. Not only was it fair, it didn't cater to any one playstyle like a symmetrical map like Countdown does.
The spawns, too. You can lock the other team down and manipulate where they spawn pretty easily. Of course, if they're even teams, the trap doesn't last, which makes flag games there really fun.
IMHO, spawn trapping is a sign of poor map design. Maybe that's why I never liked the Pit so much. I know you MLG types will disagree and say it's a skill, and I agree, but I'd rather play on a map that tested other skills that spawn trapping. To each their own...
IMHO, spawn trapping is a sign of poor map design. Maybe that's why I never liked the Pit so much. I know you MLG types will disagree and say it's a skill, and I agree, but I'd rather play on a map that tested other skills that spawn trapping. To each their own...
Then, ywah, we're fundamentally going to have some disagreements about what constitutes a map. Spawn trapping is an outcome of predictable spawns, which helps out immensely when executing a plan. I think Narrows would be an even better example of this dichotomy. The regular variant will flip your spawn from one side of the map to the other. The MLG variant will not. You spawn on that side the entire time, enabling a spawn trap or enabling predictability in the gametype. Also, flipping the spawns on that map makes flag fucking impossible.
Spawn predictability also helps with Construct. Construct is about controlling that sword lobby, and if you don't do so with your spawns, you're porked. Also, if you can account for where the other team is, you can push them to spawn back Gold or mid Gold, the worst set of spawns on that map.
IMHO, spawn trapping is a sign of poor map design. Maybe that's why I never liked the Pit so much. I know you MLG types will disagree and say it's a skill, and I agree, but I'd rather play on a map that tested other skills that spawn trapping. To each their own...
Then, ywah, we're fundamentally going to have some disagreements about what constitutes a map. Spawn trapping is an outcome of predictable spawns, which helps out immensely when executing a plan. I think Narrows would be an even better example of this dichotomy. The regular variant will flip your spawn from one side of the map to the other. The MLG variant will not. You spawn on that side the entire time, enabling a spawn trap or enabling predictability in the gametype. Also, flipping the spawns on that map makes flag fucking impossible.
Spawn predictability also helps with Construct. Construct is about controlling that sword lobby, and if you don't do so with your spawns, you're porked. Also, if you can account for where the other team is, you can push them to spawn back Gold or mid Gold, the worst set of spawns on that map.
that's all cool except for the the MLG twist. if you're going to occupy the other teams base, and leave your base unattended, then you should lose out on your claim to that base.
ummm The Pit was a great map don't get me wrong, it was definitely the best Halo 3 map hands down. It's one of MLG's best maps at the time. Asymmetrical for competitive play. BUT, The Pit was the best map of a game that had no good maps. Of course everyone played it cause it was one of the only good maps. If Halo 3 came out with 1-2 more maps that were of epic proportions, the Pit would not be as popular as it is today... just sayin
Twitch
You are out of your goddamned mind. If you were looking for a great asymmetrical map, I think you meant to say "Guardian". Besides, "epic" is pretty subjective.
The case you're really referring to is "Blackout". Spoiled chumps whined until they got Lockout back, but then whined because of a few changes made to it. Yes, I get it. It played slightly differently. Adjust.
I don't think you played the same game I did.
1. The Pit = symmetrical
2. no good maps? compared to what? granted the ratio of good to bad was small, but I dare say they are better than what we got with Reach, and Pit is included in the better part of the good.
http://halowiki.net/p/maps
The pit worked because it functioned for 3-4 gametypes, and did it well for all of them. It didn't end up my favorite but it sure is close.
ok i made a typo, i put an "a" in front of symmetrical, my bad. Secondly, i considered the Pit and Guardian as the 2 best maps from Halo 3. the point i was trying to make is that sure the Pit is a great map but it ain't considered in the top 4 of all the Halo maps... Midship, Beaver Creek, Sanctuary, Hang'em High, Blood Gulch even are all ahead of it. So my point, it was good but it ain't the end all be all...
Twitch
Don't listen to him, guys. He's Canadian. Also, he works in a nuclear power plant.
Simple
1. Easy to know where you were on spawn.
2. Lots of cover.
At it's simplist, what Deep said. I would add that it offered plenty of cover but not so much that it was restrictive.
It's mirror image design is part of what made it easy to orient oneself on spawn or re-spawn. The simplistic color scheme (muted and basic but not monotone in nature) allowed for easily distinguished call-out areas and was the other thing that made orientation easy.
It provided a very well balanced mix of long sight lines, medium sight lines, and close quarters areas for people of varying playing styles to have areas where their strengths could shine. The placement of power weapons and power-ups made it necesary to fight over the middle of the map rather than just trying to hold one side or one corner against incursion by your opponents. For those of us for whom the BR is king, there were enough of them on the map that no one ever need feel short-changed by a lack of them (not that it didn't occasionally happen but it usually wasn't a problem, at least not for long). The simple lines and flat surfaces of it all made grenade bounces and bullet ricochets fairly predictable (unlike any outdoor map or covie map).
It was just large enough that it was extremely hard to spawn-lock the other team but not so large that you'd ever go too long without encountering an enemy.
All in all The Pit is a great map. Not my favorite, but still a great map. I hope when H4 comes out they include a map with a similar aesthetic but that's not simply a re-make of The Pit.
I have to agree with Deep on this. The only other thing I will add is that it had a great play on the Z axis. How you traveled from space to space and gained high ground mattered. It felt like it was split up so that it allowed for different skirmishes to break out in interesting areas.
I'm an LD level Halo player. But every time I played the Pit, I was able to get a lot of kills by spamming nades into the sword room and giving someone a facefull of shotgun as he ran screaming from the blast.
It seemed to have different spots for every style of player - campy spots for shotty/sword whores, power weapons for rocket whores, long lines of sight for sniping and several areas for CQC as well. This is my second favorite map (Standoff is first) in H3. I would like to see remake of this because it was so fun to play, but I also agree with Honor in hopes that 343 rolls out a similar styled map and not just a re-hash.
I thought you were just going for H3 maps, if we are including every game then The Pit doesn't make top 7.
What about Chiron Whistlefuck 434, or whatever that map is that you were talking about from CE?
That one is barely Top 8...
I'd put it above every Reach launch map though.
HA. Zealot, Boardwalk, Sword Base, and Reflection are better, at least.
It's funny. It's like we're not even playing the same game, to have two wildly different views on things like this. I guess that should be a testament to how pliable the Halo multiplayer sandbox is.
You really think Chiron is better than the maps I listed? that was the only one I was talking about. Chiron is an abomination.
No, I was responding to the ones you named. Chiron Humperdink 872 is unknown to me. Never played it. I think I'm pretty sure I know of what map you're referring, though.
thank you! i'm glad someone agrees with me! lol
Twitch
You and Hop, both followers of false prophets.
Off topic but...
Sword Base is an abomination. Pitch a tent and camp.
"Shotgun and sword are camping in gold."
Besides, red team has a massive advantage on spawn. Immediate access to snipe, grenade launcher, and shotgun while blue team gets sword.
yeah I guess. I liked it a lot in the beta...
I would probably put the Pit at 6 or 7 in my top 10. Halo2 had such a good group of competitive maps. The Pit was a great map, but it goes against everything that I think makes a great map. No controlable center, alot of power weopons and it feels somewhat unbalanced with sword area. I did love it though and I think it had some great open lanes for shooting and the powers weapons where worth fighting for and it was one of the few MLG system maps where you could collect yourself before going back into battle.
Every map, in a single picture: http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/KurtiZ-NZ/AllHaloMaps.jpg
You guys are comparing maps from 3 different games. Halo 2 is not Halo 3 is not Reach. How awesome is Pit with Armor Lock? How much better is Sanctuary without DMR's? Remember when Construct broke because everyone kept jetpacking instead of taking the lifts? Or when guys kept throwing down bubbles on Burial Mounds? Me neither.
To me Reflection is the best example. I remember liking Ivory Tower but now cringe to vote for Reflection. "Oh great, our initial spawn is behind the elevator and when I go up the lift to get snipe I'm going to get rocketed by a jetpacker." "Oh look, my used to be awesome sword just got blocked by an Armor Lock." "Where in the fuck am I getting shot from? Crap, I forgot they can now jetpack onto the top of all the pillars on the map."
What played well on one won't always play well on another. Especially now. Now with each map the creator has to figure out how everyone's going to screw it up using AA's.
Overall I have always like symmetrical maps. I want to feel like I'm getting a fair shake. Very few seem to make me feel that way when they aren't symmetrical. Citadel, Isolation, Narrows and Pit were some of my favorite maps and now Select, Synapse, and Enclosed are ones I enjoy in Reach.
Pit was great because of some of the reasons already given about different lanes and distances. Not only was it fair, it didn't cater to any one playstyle like a symmetrical map like Countdown does.
^^ great points
The spawns, too. You can lock the other team down and manipulate where they spawn pretty easily. Of course, if they're even teams, the trap doesn't last, which makes flag games there really fun.
IMHO, spawn trapping is a sign of poor map design. Maybe that's why I never liked the Pit so much. I know you MLG types will disagree and say it's a skill, and I agree, but I'd rather play on a map that tested other skills that spawn trapping. To each their own...
Then, ywah, we're fundamentally going to have some disagreements about what constitutes a map. Spawn trapping is an outcome of predictable spawns, which helps out immensely when executing a plan. I think Narrows would be an even better example of this dichotomy. The regular variant will flip your spawn from one side of the map to the other. The MLG variant will not. You spawn on that side the entire time, enabling a spawn trap or enabling predictability in the gametype. Also, flipping the spawns on that map makes flag fucking impossible.
Spawn predictability also helps with Construct. Construct is about controlling that sword lobby, and if you don't do so with your spawns, you're porked. Also, if you can account for where the other team is, you can push them to spawn back Gold or mid Gold, the worst set of spawns on that map.
that's all cool except for the the MLG twist. if you're going to occupy the other teams base, and leave your base unattended, then you should lose out on your claim to that base.