cmoth
Shared on Sun, 02/17/2013 - 04:47Christopher Dorner has literally been all over the news for the past couple of weeks and for good reason.
The first item that got the public's attention was a group of ambush killings. A female and her fiance were gunned down in a parked car. Then, a couple of officers exchanged gunfire with a subject (this wouldn't get too much attention in LA if it weren't for the other shootings) and nobody was seriously hurt. Then a pair of officers, a field training officer and his trainee were both shot. The 34 year old training officer was killed. Certain things lead to Dorner being a potential suspect.
If you want details. you can look them up.
The female who was murdered with her fiance was the daughter of a retired LAPD Captain turned lawyer. Turns out the same lawyer that represented Dorner in the investigation that ended with his termination.
I've read the entire manifesto that he published and distributed. The short version is that he was a trainee with a female training officer that wasn't a nice person according to Dorner. She allegedly kicked a person in the face while they were trying to place him into restraints. A complaint was made by the persons father reporting the assault. During an investigation Dorner testified that his training officer did kick the person in the face. Other "witnesses" were brought forward that denied this happened. Despite other evidence that Dorner claims exists was introduced that would have corroborated his testimony, the complaint was dropped and the allegedly abusive officer was cleared (and then later promoted to Sergeant).
Sometime after this Dorner, a Navy reservist, is called to active duty and spends his year in the sandbox. Shortly after he returns he is called to a hearing investigating his alleged perjury during the internal affairs investigation concerning the abuse complaint. The panel was apparently crewed by people who were close in some way to the accused officer and Dorner's objections were ignored. His attorney for the hearing was the aforementioned retired LAPD Captain who was also allegedly friends with someone on the panel. Again, Dorner's objections were allegedly ignored. After the hearing Dorner was fired from his position with the department.
His manifesto claims that the "asymmetrical warfare" that he would be bringing to anyone in an LAPD uniform was in some strange attempt to bring attention to this injustice and the smearing of his name. Up until this incident, Christopher Dorner had no history of any kind of criminal behavior. In every other way, Dorner appeared to be a decent and honest person.
If Dorner's reaction to his termination and the alleged slander of the false accusation against him had lead to him getting an attorney and contesting the termination. If what he had done was to sue the department, fie FOIA papers to get every document he could to expose the cover up that protected an alleged abusive officer and slandered him, I might have been at least sympathetic. I would have definitely been interested in his side of the story.
I've seen a lot of things as a police officer that I wished I hadn't. One of the things I have absolutely no tolerance for is dishonesty and cruelty by someone who is in law enforcement. I would have wanted to see Dorner's name cleared if what he said were true.
But, what he chose to do in response to his perceived injustice makes his point of view irrelevant. He lost the right to seek justice when he started to selfishly take it from others. By ambushing people with the intent of killing them he made himself worse than his accusers. He was throwing a callous temper tantrum. He murdered someone's daughter to get back at them. That's not revenge it's cowardice.
Think what you want about police officers. It's a free country (so far) think what you will. But, there's nothing that makes cold blooded, unjustifiable murder excusable.
I realize that there are people who knew Dorner prior to this incident that don't recognize the man who could do this. They want his name "cleared" somehow. There was a protest outside of LAPD's offices demanding an investigation into his accusations. It would have been nice if they would have done this with Dorner BEFORE he started murdering people.
There are also people who were actually chearing this guy on liek he was some kind of Robin Hood-esque character. Regardless of your stance on this, I don't remember Robin Hood callously murdering the Sheriff of Nottingham's children. Dorner isn't a hero of any kind, not anymore.
There are also people who question the tactics and techniques that lead to the house getting burned down with him in it. The Sheriffs Office involved claims that it was inadvertent, that the type of pyrotechnic gas grenades used were needed because of the circumstances. I don't Monday morning quarterback people so I'm going to make no second guesses here either. But, I will tell you this. If they had come out and said, "Yup, that murdering son-of-a-bitch had been shooting at any law enforcement officer he caught sight of leading to this. He shot and killed one of our deputies trying to apprehend him. There was no way to get him out of that house without sending in more people into that meat grinder. We burnt the fucking house down to stop this maniac and we won't lose a seconds sleep over it either"... I wouldn't have had a problem with that. Let me tell you why.
When I was interviewed for my very first LEO job I was asked this question during an interview, "You get called to a disturbance near an apartment complex. When you pull into the lot you see a man standing in the middle of the lot holding a lit incendiary. The man is holding it back in an apparent preparation to hurl it at one of the old and wood paneled apartment houses. What do you do"?
Well, all of you Monday Morning Quarterbacks, think on that question and now answer it. What would YOU do? Instead of telling you what my answer was (considered perfect by the one who asked it) I'm going to wait. I'll check back on Wednesday evening to see what the answers were if any. Then, I'll tell you what my answer was and why it is still what I'd do today, nearly 20 years later.
I"ll close by saying that I do grieve for the victims of this incident and their families. I'll even pray for Dorner's friends and family that they are able to find some peace in what has happened and won't be so easy to cast blame or hatred. Dorner chose his path and walked it aggressively. His ending was also apparently one of his choosing according to the coroner's report.
He carried the stones and laid them out. In the end he's the only one to blame if you don't like what he built.
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Comments
Submitted by FadeIntoBlack on Sun, 02/17/2013 - 10:51
I agree with you pretty wholeheartedly. In fact, I am someone who is far less ready to indict in an incident that results in a death when that someones responsibility is protecting others. This includes law enforcement at all levels, military, etc. I realize that when shit gets hot, sometimes people die. If it happens to be those that caused the incident in the first place, so be it. Dorner made his bed and I won't think a second more about it. Taking all of this into his own hands ended any chance he had in my mind for real 'justice'. I may feel bad when an innocent bystander gets hurt when they are in the wrong place at the wrong time, but again, I think those incidents sometimes are unavoidable no matter how much training someone has.
As far as your question, I don't know what I would do until I was confronted by it. I don't know if I could rehearse it in my head enough in order to make the kind of rational judgements that hindsight can provide. I'd probably shoot and hope that it didn't kill, but not have much heartache over it if it did.
Submitted by Leviticus78 on Mon, 02/18/2013 - 11:51
Ok, I'll bite.
Had you asked this question before I took my concealed weapons class I would have just answered "shoot on sight" without question. When thinking if he is considered " a danger to me or others" that's tough because fire wouldn't instantly harm anyone as long as they are inside but could still do drastic harm.
My answer is still "shoot" as you wouldn't have time to subdue him once he threw it AND evacuate people from the apartment at the same time.
As far as Dorner I would have to agree with you Cmoth. I had sympathy until he went on his cowardly shooting spree. Hell he could have simply left the state and the aparent crooked PD. He might have had the chance to get on with another city's PD outside of California had he left.
Submitted by Lbsutke on Mon, 02/18/2013 - 22:00
Honestly my first instinct is to call for back up first. But that is assuming their is time for that. So I would say I would warn this dude first, Put down X or I will shoot you. Then if possible, if he/she does not respond or ignores my request and starts to make the throw, take the shot.
I liked your write up and completely agree with you. The couple that was shot in Irvine is 10 minutes from my house and I thought it was some botched up car jacking or robbery, then everything else unfolded.
So looking forward to what you have to say.
Submitted by cmoth on Tue, 02/19/2013 - 22:58
Decided to respond a bit earlier than scheduled due to the response. And, thanks for playing along. This was a legit question asked during my first LEO job interview and the response I'm about to give was and has been deemed as the only response worth considering for the circumstances. I'll tell you what my response was and then break down the reasoning.
I was asked in paraphrase: While responding to a disturbance you arrive in an apartment complex parking lot to see a man holding a lit molatov cocktail. His arm is cocked back and ready to throw it at an older, wood paneled apartment complex that you know to be heavily occupied. What do you do?
I responded: "I'd ram him with my cruiser".
I was of course asked to explain my answer and replied, "He already has the device cocked back in a position to throw. By the time I apply the brakes, come to a stop, remove my seatbelt (all departments at least recommend officers to "buckle up") open my door, step out, draw my weapon and start yelling verbal commands at the male, it's too late. He has already thrown the cocktail and ran. So, I'm probably watching him vault a fence while I'm watching an apartment block catch fire".
When the Assistant Chief asked, "What about the patrol car. He probably dropped the incindiary device on the hood"? I said, "Better the car than the occupied apartment block. Besides, it's not my car".
Keep in mind, in Texas it is permissable to use deadly force to prevent an arson or any other act that could lead to a potential of serious bodily injury or death of myself or another. To think that the sidearm on your belt is the only means of force available to you is short sighted and lacks creativity. And time, while a luxury to us typing about it on the interwebz, is not a luxury you have in the moment. You make the decision and then you live with the consequences.
Thanks everybody and be safe no matter what you do.
Submitted by Leviticus78 on Wed, 02/20/2013 - 09:34
Damnit, Damnit, Damnit! lol
That was my first instinctive response but I thought it could turn the car in to a potential bomb once it was lit afire so I scratched it off the options.
Nice to know there are officers like yourself who aren't afraid to do what needs done when the time arises.
Thanks for the blog Cmoth. I always enjoy reading them.
Submitted by CProRacing on Fri, 02/22/2013 - 02:36
Thanks for this!
I was going to responed when you first posted but didnt have the guts!
Over here in England you would just watch the guy throw the thing and sort out the mess after.
Submitted by cmoth on Wed, 02/12/2014 - 00:15
As far as I'm concerned anybody that puts on the uniform in England / Great Britain is both the bravest and most optimistic person I'd ever want to meet. Those guys and gals do the same tough job I do but with one hand tied behind their backs and few of them realize how MUCH they wish they had that arm back until it's too late.
Many a police officer in England has come to the States and got on with an agency. Some of them decide that once they've done the job with the level of protection afforded them here they couldn't think of why they were crazy enough to do the job without it.
Still, here's to them. If I ever do meet one of them they won't be allowed to pay for their own drinks.
I've met a lot of officers from many diferent parts of the world: France, Germany, Italy, China, etc. Other than the obvious social differences at our core it feels like we're cut from the same cloth. It's always nice to meet them.
Administration on the other hand seems to be all cut from the same part of a soiled diaper and seem to be equally distant and damn near worthless.