Return to Old School.

cmoth

Shared on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 22:14

I would certainly love to return to the old school ways of dealing with certain social issues. That of course would mean taking responsibility for the sanctity of your environment. What I mean is that we are all responsible for keeping ourselves under control in order maintain a certain dignity out of respect for our fellow citizens.

I've mentioned that the Constitution gives us the right to express ourselves. I've also mentioned that it doesn't protect us from all of the consequences of our chosen form of expression. We can go out into public and make a speech. If the content of that speech is anti-government in nature or speeking out against an elected or otherwise public official or figure, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights grant us certain protections to give us not only the ability but also the security of saying it without possible reprisal from the government or official.

Where the confusion sets in is when the speech is leveled against another citizen that hasn't put themselves out as a representative of government. An example: Someone yells at George W. Bush in his official capacity as the President, "You fucking suck!!" This is protected speech, that person is expressing his displeasure with a public official that is a representative of the government. But, let's say that some private citizen is mowing his lawn. Same guy walks up and yells, "You fucking suck!!" He should be charged with disorderly conduct. What is accepted as an outcry against government in the first incident becomes an attempt at disturbing the peace in the next.

If you say something of slandor against another, you should be prepared to substantiate your claims in court. The law allows a private citizen to sue another for libel if an utterence or writings by the defending party has or could somehow harm the plaintiffs community standing.

As a private citizen we have a right to privacy and security in our possessions, private spaces and in our reputations. We have the right to protect ourselves from attack and harm. Any attack made on our bodies is an obvious case of self defense. An attack on our private spaces, burglary and trespass for example, are also self-explanatory. The right to defend ourselves against an attack on our emotional well-being and reputation starts to get a little fuzzy for some.

Some will say that we shoud be tolerant and accept some social fau paux from time to time. I agree. A slipped profanity in public should be overlooked. Profanity or vulgarity uttered in an environment where such conduct should be expected should also be tolerated. If you go into a bar or go to a hockey game you should expect that there will be harsh language and rude behavior.

But, where it shoudn't be tolerated is when someone is recklessly using vulgarity or intentionally using it to offend or cause alarm or dischord. I have a perfect example as it was relayed to me by my wife.

My wife was in a Barnes and Noble this weekend. While there she said that there were two young men walking around and talking loudly and using an abundnace of reckless and vulgar profanities. Fuckin' this, Fuckin' that. You know the drill. They were doing it in a public environment in which such behavior is not acceptable by the public standard. They were also using it with a callous disregard for the effect it may have on others or the proximity of minor children. In the State of North Dakota and other jurisdictions this is disorderly conduct or lewd / lacivious behavior. It's conduct intended or recklesly predisposed to cause public alarm and a disturbance of the peace. in some ways it can also be determined to be pornographic.

Somebody should say something.

Somebody did.

According to my wife an older gentelman saw that there were ladies and children around and made the comment, "they'll keep doing it if somebody doesn't say something". He gets up and approaches the young men and tells them they should be considerate of others and watch their language. My wife and everybody else hears one of the young douchebags say to a friend on his cell phone, "some old guy who's too fucking dumb to read a book without being distracted by talking". The guy purposefully said this loud enough for the older man to hear while he was walking away and for everybody else to hear it as well.

Two things. One, obviously they have no consideration for others. Two, the comment was intended to relay the information that they were going to continue this behavior in spite of the feelings of others.

They were free to do this because in todays society you are  prohibited from a physical response to verbal provocation alone. You can't punch a person for being an insulting borish ass. You are expected to go by the old "sticks and stones" nursery lesson. While this basically has merit and helps keep the peace during a heated discussion it does nothing but embolden some to intentionally try to emotionally harm others secure in the notion that their victim can't and won't do anything.

Back in the 19th Century, the older man would not have hesitated to draw a knife and cut the young man for his insult. He would not only have been within his acceptable boundaries but would have also been within his legal right to do so. It was considered the only proper response to answer an insult with an injury. You were once allowed to defend your honor in much the same way you are now allowed to defend your body.

Instead, this gentelman, the ONLY person who had the frickin balls to actually say something while everybody else sat back on their loathsome sheepish backsides, had to try and do something with these two assholes.

By the way, I'm a bit old-fashioned (probably a little chauvanistic). I don't see it as a woman's responsibility to become onvolved in these situations. While I absolutely believe that a woman has an independent voice and is perfectly jusitifed in having an opinion in these matters, it shouldn't be a woman who tries to deal with this kind of event. Not because they wouldn't be able to intellectually hold their own, quite the contrary, I think a woman could probably have done a superior job intellectually. But, on average if the asshole decides they want to become aggresive, the woman is going to be on the short end of the stick.

I don't want to hear about somebodies corn-fed cousin or step-sister who can "hold her own against all comers", genetic mutations aside, your average female will get their ass kicked by your average male. Not because they aren't physically capable, a woman could be just as lethal with the right training and mindset, it's just that most women don't possess either the training OR the mindset needed. Sorry girls, Lionel Richey was an anomoly, not the standard. Oh, Isreal is probably one of the few places on earth where this last paragraph doesn't apply. Wifebeaters of the world, leave the nice Jewish girl in the fatigues alone, Krav Maga is a fuckin horrible first date experience.

Nope, I'm talking about the other males. I'd use the word men but this doesn't apply to someone who allows this kind of crap to happen without at least saying something.

As it was this older guy had to put up with these assholes. He could have walked off and nobody would have blaimed him. After all, most would consider that his initial verbal warning was all he was responible for. Well, he didn't.

According to my wife this guy was an older gentelman who apparently suffered from a rural education. Probably a genious on a farm or oilrig but not suited for verbal sparring. My wife could see that this man was frustrated that he couldn't just throttle these dipshits and be done with it. As it was, he did the best he could while these two guys (wife thinks late teens early twenties in age) berated the older guy and continued their tirade. My wife went and found a store representative and reported it.

My wife didn't see what happened after that but she ran into the store clerk later, a young female probably around the same age as the two douchebags. Apparently, the store clerk believed that the older man was the issue and he should have just let it go.

What a fucking weak minded liberalized social whore. ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS!!

That ladies and gentleman is what our present society is gestating in our halls of secondary education and schools of  "higher learning".

Sheep, each and every one of them. Sponge headed morons whose only capability is some menial intellectual exercises and meaningless displays of self-expression. These same imbeciles are the future leaders boys and girls. Yup, the minds barely able to negotiate the National Enquirer are going to be making decisions for us all some day.

I can't fuckin wait.

Back to our story. While I wish I had been there I realize that it would have screwed up the social dynamic. Why you might ask? Easy.

I've dealt with kids like this all the time and each and every one of them do the same thing when a cop walks up out of nowhere and identifies themselves. They immediately clam up and do as their told,... er, I mean TRAINED.

I assume that we are all familar with the consequences of walking up to a cop and continuing on with your bullshit vulgar rant. You get hammered. Justfiably so.

But, I have a problem with a society that accepts this.

While I agree that certain lawful powers of confrontation should be reserved to law enforcement I don't think that a private citizen should have to shrug off this kind of behavior. As far as i'm concerned in a perfect world when the above described confrontation had occured two things would have happened. One, every able bodied male within ear-shot should have marched over to the two little assholes stood right next to the old man in an act of solidarity. The second, that same group should have snatched up these two assholes and physically hurled them from the public place and out into the street with the rest of the garbage. If the assholes had called the cops (something that they do EVERY FUCKING DAY), the cops should have arrived, beat the two kids asses and sternly told them that the next time won't go so easily.

When my wife told me this story I got to a level of pissed that I don't get to very often. I got violently pissed. Not because of what the kids had originally done, my wife hears profanity all the time, she lives with me after all. Nope, I got pissed to the point of wanting to lynch these guys out of respect for the old man who had the initial courage to say something. He was apparently a Vietnam War veteran who had tried to explain to these guys that they were abusing their rights that he had fought for.

They said, "You didn't fight for shit!"

That alone shoud have lead to their immediate and very public execution.

 

Comments

Azuredreams's picture
Submitted by Azuredreams on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 11:22
I gave you a thumbs up. Anyone who doesn't is part of the problem not the solution. You sir have offended my honor and now under your thinking I am permitted to cut you.
cmoth's picture
Submitted by cmoth on Mon, 05/05/2008 - 07:16
I don't believe the primary subject of my entry concerned their language but more their absolute disregard for others. I for one don't find certain language offensive. I think I even mentioned that I myself abuse the hell out of it. By the way Azure, you are dead wrong. ALL laws in one way or another legislate morality. In fact if you removed the laws legislating morality you would have to remove any legislation that causes harm or offends. There has to be a standard of some kind. While you may find anarchy a great idea I don't. Also, you must have a very fragile feeling on honor to have considered King's statement offensive.
cmoth's picture
Submitted by cmoth on Mon, 05/05/2008 - 07:30
Sorry, got interrupted. What you are suggesting is that those with a complete disregard for others be allowed to do whatever they wish and those with any form of ethical consideration should continue moving along and displacing themselves. Apparently bullying behavior is something you are supportive of. I made NO comment supporting that. THAT is real "alpha male" behavior and should be met with force by those that are victimized by it. The Constitution protects your rights so long as they don't interfere with others. The Bill of Rights grants free speech and only prohibits governing bodies from censoring CERTAIN TYPES of speech and expression. It DOES NOT protect ALL forms of speech and expression particularly when those forms begin to infringe on the rights of others to have peace and dignity. Thank you for your comments. I disagree with them but at least you gave it some intellectual consideration and THAT is what I look forward to.
Azuredreams's picture
Submitted by Azuredreams on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 10:02
I gave you a thumbs down on your post, not because I personally do not like you. Instead it was a thumbs down to the ideas conveyed within it. I am responding to your blog and hope again that you recognize that it is in no way an attack on your person. You cannot legislate morality, as it is a subjective idea. The idea of morality varies from person to person and culture to culture. What these young men were doing is completely protected under the first amendment of free speech, whether you, I, or anyone else likes it or not. If your wife had your children present and did not remove them from what she perceived to be "Harmful or Corrupting" language, then that is her choice. Just as she/you feel that you should not have to remove yourself from the store to avoid such language....so too do they feel that they should not have to censor themselves for the benefit of your family values. I am not saying that I have not been offended and or angered by “Timmies” in the past. However I have more often than not taken the high road and simply ignored them. I learned long ago that words will not hurt you and contrary to popular belief it will also not harm your children. Children are not to be raised by society; rather you are solely responsible for their rearing. As such, it is not the young men’s problem if your children are subjected to this language, rather it is your duty to make sure you explain such language to your kids and its proper place and use as you see it. Your morals and values are your own, and they vary from person to person. It is not only sadistic but also egotistical to expect others to adhere to your ideals and values or “Suffer the consequences”. I am also a parent, I have two children and I use what some consider “Foul language” quite often. I have never censored myself. Not when they were babies, toddlers and not now while they are currently twelve and nine respectively. Simply put, I have never had to censor myself because I actually parent my children. If they use a word that is inappropriate, then the word is explained and is no longer used by my children…it’s not rocket science. I also have a real issue with your alpha male solution to society’s ills as you see them. You insult those who would rather think than act aggressively, however you have obviously not thought your idea through….nor have you researched what the “Old times” that you revere were actually like. In such an instance, in which one man’s/woman’s honor was insulted, yes there would be a physical retribution. However, think about this for a moment. What if your son insulted some alpha male douche bag and was sliced and or killed in the streets? Would not your barbaric sense of justice dictate that you in turn slice and or kill them? Before you say that you would understand, remember that you wanted to kick the shit out of two kids for having “Potty mouths”. Who is to judge what “Knife is worthy”? Should we all also return to hanging “Witches” and so called “Heretics”? Your idealization of barbaric and lawless times is astounding for one who is entrusted with the protection of our cities. You talk about how the police should have been called to deal with this situation because it was “Lewd and lascivious behavior”. While you may be alright with the police being called into such a trivial matter, I instead would prefer that they are out actually protecting us from real crimes and not coddling you or your wife’s delicate sensibilities. How many times have you as a peace officer been called to these sorts of disruptions and rolled your eyes in disbelief. What a waste of tax payers dollars, turning our men and women of law enforcement into glorified hall monitors. I could rant all day on the issues you have brought forth here in your blog but I instead I digress. You have the right to believe what you believe and nothing anyone can say or do will change your mind. However, those same rights apply to EVERYONE. Not just those who fit into your conceptual utopian society.
Durty's picture
Submitted by Durty on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 11:07
+1
KingBayman's picture
Submitted by KingBayman on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 11:08
I gave you a thumbs up. Anyone who doesn't is part of the problem not the solution.

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