cmoth
Shared on Sat, 05/03/2008 - 22:14I would certainly love to return to the old school ways of dealing with certain social issues. That of course would mean taking responsibility for the sanctity of your environment. What I mean is that we are all responsible for keeping ourselves under control in order maintain a certain dignity out of respect for our fellow citizens.
I've mentioned that the Constitution gives us the right to express ourselves. I've also mentioned that it doesn't protect us from all of the consequences of our chosen form of expression. We can go out into public and make a speech. If the content of that speech is anti-government in nature or speeking out against an elected or otherwise public official or figure, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights grant us certain protections to give us not only the ability but also the security of saying it without possible reprisal from the government or official.
Where the confusion sets in is when the speech is leveled against another citizen that hasn't put themselves out as a representative of government. An example: Someone yells at George W. Bush in his official capacity as the President, "You fucking suck!!" This is protected speech, that person is expressing his displeasure with a public official that is a representative of the government. But, let's say that some private citizen is mowing his lawn. Same guy walks up and yells, "You fucking suck!!" He should be charged with disorderly conduct. What is accepted as an outcry against government in the first incident becomes an attempt at disturbing the peace in the next.
If you say something of slandor against another, you should be prepared to substantiate your claims in court. The law allows a private citizen to sue another for libel if an utterence or writings by the defending party has or could somehow harm the plaintiffs community standing.
As a private citizen we have a right to privacy and security in our possessions, private spaces and in our reputations. We have the right to protect ourselves from attack and harm. Any attack made on our bodies is an obvious case of self defense. An attack on our private spaces, burglary and trespass for example, are also self-explanatory. The right to defend ourselves against an attack on our emotional well-being and reputation starts to get a little fuzzy for some.
Some will say that we shoud be tolerant and accept some social fau paux from time to time. I agree. A slipped profanity in public should be overlooked. Profanity or vulgarity uttered in an environment where such conduct should be expected should also be tolerated. If you go into a bar or go to a hockey game you should expect that there will be harsh language and rude behavior.
But, where it shoudn't be tolerated is when someone is recklessly using vulgarity or intentionally using it to offend or cause alarm or dischord. I have a perfect example as it was relayed to me by my wife.
My wife was in a Barnes and Noble this weekend. While there she said that there were two young men walking around and talking loudly and using an abundnace of reckless and vulgar profanities. Fuckin' this, Fuckin' that. You know the drill. They were doing it in a public environment in which such behavior is not acceptable by the public standard. They were also using it with a callous disregard for the effect it may have on others or the proximity of minor children. In the State of North Dakota and other jurisdictions this is disorderly conduct or lewd / lacivious behavior. It's conduct intended or recklesly predisposed to cause public alarm and a disturbance of the peace. in some ways it can also be determined to be pornographic.
Somebody should say something.
Somebody did.
According to my wife an older gentelman saw that there were ladies and children around and made the comment, "they'll keep doing it if somebody doesn't say something". He gets up and approaches the young men and tells them they should be considerate of others and watch their language. My wife and everybody else hears one of the young douchebags say to a friend on his cell phone, "some old guy who's too fucking dumb to read a book without being distracted by talking". The guy purposefully said this loud enough for the older man to hear while he was walking away and for everybody else to hear it as well.
Two things. One, obviously they have no consideration for others. Two, the comment was intended to relay the information that they were going to continue this behavior in spite of the feelings of others.
They were free to do this because in todays society you are prohibited from a physical response to verbal provocation alone. You can't punch a person for being an insulting borish ass. You are expected to go by the old "sticks and stones" nursery lesson. While this basically has merit and helps keep the peace during a heated discussion it does nothing but embolden some to intentionally try to emotionally harm others secure in the notion that their victim can't and won't do anything.
Back in the 19th Century, the older man would not have hesitated to draw a knife and cut the young man for his insult. He would not only have been within his acceptable boundaries but would have also been within his legal right to do so. It was considered the only proper response to answer an insult with an injury. You were once allowed to defend your honor in much the same way you are now allowed to defend your body.
Instead, this gentelman, the ONLY person who had the frickin balls to actually say something while everybody else sat back on their loathsome sheepish backsides, had to try and do something with these two assholes.
By the way, I'm a bit old-fashioned (probably a little chauvanistic). I don't see it as a woman's responsibility to become onvolved in these situations. While I absolutely believe that a woman has an independent voice and is perfectly jusitifed in having an opinion in these matters, it shouldn't be a woman who tries to deal with this kind of event. Not because they wouldn't be able to intellectually hold their own, quite the contrary, I think a woman could probably have done a superior job intellectually. But, on average if the asshole decides they want to become aggresive, the woman is going to be on the short end of the stick.
I don't want to hear about somebodies corn-fed cousin or step-sister who can "hold her own against all comers", genetic mutations aside, your average female will get their ass kicked by your average male. Not because they aren't physically capable, a woman could be just as lethal with the right training and mindset, it's just that most women don't possess either the training OR the mindset needed. Sorry girls, Lionel Richey was an anomoly, not the standard. Oh, Isreal is probably one of the few places on earth where this last paragraph doesn't apply. Wifebeaters of the world, leave the nice Jewish girl in the fatigues alone, Krav Maga is a fuckin horrible first date experience.
Nope, I'm talking about the other males. I'd use the word men but this doesn't apply to someone who allows this kind of crap to happen without at least saying something.
As it was this older guy had to put up with these assholes. He could have walked off and nobody would have blaimed him. After all, most would consider that his initial verbal warning was all he was responible for. Well, he didn't.
According to my wife this guy was an older gentelman who apparently suffered from a rural education. Probably a genious on a farm or oilrig but not suited for verbal sparring. My wife could see that this man was frustrated that he couldn't just throttle these dipshits and be done with it. As it was, he did the best he could while these two guys (wife thinks late teens early twenties in age) berated the older guy and continued their tirade. My wife went and found a store representative and reported it.
My wife didn't see what happened after that but she ran into the store clerk later, a young female probably around the same age as the two douchebags. Apparently, the store clerk believed that the older man was the issue and he should have just let it go.
What a fucking weak minded liberalized social whore. ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS!!
That ladies and gentleman is what our present society is gestating in our halls of secondary education and schools of "higher learning".
Sheep, each and every one of them. Sponge headed morons whose only capability is some menial intellectual exercises and meaningless displays of self-expression. These same imbeciles are the future leaders boys and girls. Yup, the minds barely able to negotiate the National Enquirer are going to be making decisions for us all some day.
I can't fuckin wait.
Back to our story. While I wish I had been there I realize that it would have screwed up the social dynamic. Why you might ask? Easy.
I've dealt with kids like this all the time and each and every one of them do the same thing when a cop walks up out of nowhere and identifies themselves. They immediately clam up and do as their told,... er, I mean TRAINED.
I assume that we are all familar with the consequences of walking up to a cop and continuing on with your bullshit vulgar rant. You get hammered. Justfiably so.
But, I have a problem with a society that accepts this.
While I agree that certain lawful powers of confrontation should be reserved to law enforcement I don't think that a private citizen should have to shrug off this kind of behavior. As far as i'm concerned in a perfect world when the above described confrontation had occured two things would have happened. One, every able bodied male within ear-shot should have marched over to the two little assholes stood right next to the old man in an act of solidarity. The second, that same group should have snatched up these two assholes and physically hurled them from the public place and out into the street with the rest of the garbage. If the assholes had called the cops (something that they do EVERY FUCKING DAY), the cops should have arrived, beat the two kids asses and sternly told them that the next time won't go so easily.
When my wife told me this story I got to a level of pissed that I don't get to very often. I got violently pissed. Not because of what the kids had originally done, my wife hears profanity all the time, she lives with me after all. Nope, I got pissed to the point of wanting to lynch these guys out of respect for the old man who had the initial courage to say something. He was apparently a Vietnam War veteran who had tried to explain to these guys that they were abusing their rights that he had fought for.
They said, "You didn't fight for shit!"
That alone shoud have lead to their immediate and very public execution.
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Comments
Submitted by Azuredreams on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 11:22
Submitted by cmoth on Mon, 05/05/2008 - 07:16
Submitted by cmoth on Mon, 05/05/2008 - 07:30
Submitted by Azuredreams on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 10:02
Submitted by Durty on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 11:07
Submitted by KingBayman on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 11:08