Since everyone thinks I'm crazy, or a dick, or otherwise

wow. not cool....not cool.

Look at Mike James all ready blogging over there. What a douche!

I wonder what LuxDevil posted there. Was it about sharks?

Copyright 2009, 2old4duty productions???\r I've stayed out of this so far...... but IMHO the intent was there

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoreboard

Nice site design though, I'll have to say. Good color combination and such. Even if the news article thumbnails were created by me... :)

after seeing there mockup, they could never come close to making it look or function like 2o2p.\r \r even if they ripped everything. \r \r

First, Markus is a douche, next, that's pretty fucked up. \r \r Compete with us you may try................suck it bitches and eat some pie!

Mike James for President!

honestly, I'm still not sure what to think, I feel like I'm getting bits and pieces, but the whole timeline of events is still fuzzy...I'll just play dumb and act like it's business as usual

At the time of the pic, 79 members and 3000+ posts? Is that real states, or just place filler stuff?

Ya know what they say - \"Imitation is the sincerest of flattery.\"\r \r 2o2p got stung. Nurse the wound by putting copyright notices up, changing the TOS and maybe applying for a formal copyright.

it is only a mock up folks....those people did not actually blog there

Based on the mockup, I think it's clear the direction they are going. I applaud their efforts, running a site that big won't be easy. However, if it were I, I'd just disassociate myself and my site/efforts with 2old2play all together.\r \r It can be tempting to try to siphon community from a big site to a smaller site, but it's really not \"nice.\" I've done a lot for 2old2play in terms of side jobs editing documents, writing, editorials and such, but I still don't really try to pull the community to my own news blogging sites. It's one thing to \"name drop\" on occasion but another to be working both sides of the situation.\r \r As I don't know both sides of the situation, going on the mock up, I can clearly see the end result. They're basing their site off a design that has obviously worked for people here, it's clear, concise and easy to build off of. The difference being the three-column design over the two column design... but has the same presentation besides that.\r \r Isn't duplication the best form of flattery? :)

The evidence looks fairly damning but what is it really?\r \r If I were setting up a new site I'd have to start with something. Mocks-ups based on existing layouts would be part of the experimentation process. I'm not sure that would be so bad. It's what comes after that is more important.\r \r I sympathize with you DSmooth and doodirock but I think you have to just let this play out before any serious condemnation is done.

It's sad it has come to this.\r \r I really hope that all the 2o4d members do not leave 2o2p.\r \r I was in the clan, and played with y'all when I was into COD4 and really like all y'all.\r \r I think everyone needs to just cool down, and then re-examine the situation once everyone has cooler heads.

I understand them wanting there own site hell most sites have blogs and forums and such but why use the 2old name??

Even though it is a mock up can I still be pissed at Mike James and pretend he blogged there?

Yesterday a frown\r This morning a smile\r Brunch time a frown\r \r On the average a person will text on a cell phone is 17 times per hour.

it just hit me, they should join forces with fivesolas and create a super empire

sjam......the only reason they put my pic up there is because they think I'm hot.....and that's ok, cause that's all they got!

True Mike James, without you the ladies will not follow.

Wow, nice looking site. I didn't see a link though.\r

no link. Read the first paragraph in D's blog at the top, this was a mock up for a site that was going to be implemented in the near future.

They could not buy the free\r advertisement that you are giving\r them... You may as well post \r a link to their future site while \r you are at it. Focus on what you got\r here and not what you lost.

We are no longer 2old4Duty. Our Clan has decided to change the name out of respect for this Site and others. This whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. People have taken this the wrong way. Even myself at first. \r \r Talk about beating a Dead Horse already. Lets let this Shit go and move on. \r \r Save the Drama for your Ma ma. LoL\r \r I'm not going anywhere and neither is anyone else. Our Forums have just moved is all. Thats the way I see it.

I saw that right after i posted. It seems the problem is 2o4d wants more than what 2o2p can offer them with a simple clan forum. Seems 2o2p thinks this will take traffic away from the site, leaving them feel like they are being stabbed in the back. So why not offer special features to the 2o4d clan if they are willing to do the work, and have it all within the 2o2p infrastructure.

The answer to the original question it yes.\r \r I DO think you are a dick D. ;)

@Texas: We did... :(

My pic is up there, too, and, I did NOT blog there. Course, y'all know that already.

I'm on the fence on this still, i can't really side with either party on this.\r \r The pic was a mockup, i wouldn't jump to the conclusion that their intent is to rip stuff from 2o2p, rather the mockup is to demonstrate to members of duty who are 2o2p members how things would look on the clan website and keep the mock-up familiar by piecing in 2o2p content for the demo. I wouldn't expect that to be the case for the production site, if it is, then there's a big problem.\r \r With the copyright stuff, they can't copyright stuff if they're mirroring it off of 2o2p, 2o2p owns the copyright to original works they produce. Just like things i produce here, news stories for i 'own the copyright on because it's my original work. This blog comment by the way is copyright by default and i own the rights. Just like you own the rights to your blog posting etc. Unless people signed a TOS stating differently. So i think the blow up over the copyright stuff is unjustified honestly unless their intent was to clone 2o2p content in which case they can't, it is technically illegal and well legal stuff aside, it's just wrong.\r \r I can understand them wanting a more robust clan page. 2o2p's offerings are great to a certain point but once clan really wants to get serious and make a name for themselves outside of the 2o2p world, i can see why they would want their own page. Now i would have liked them to continue to use 2o2p's provided forums and it only be 2o2p people in the clan so they continue their bond with 2o2p. But this website by the mock-up seems to indicate they wanted to severe ties and i guess that's ok too. Just so long as the lines are severed and they don't try and suck members and content off 2o2p to better their own website. If you want to go it alone, then go it alone.\r \r But i still don't know enough from what their intentions were/are so i can't really make a solid judgement call. I'm still on the fence, wrongs in my opinion were done on both sides.\r \r

WOW Crow for lunch and Dsmooth is serving it up. There is nothing original there just ripped off ala Vanilla Ice. Ice Ice Baby dum dum dum da da dum dum

If you fucktards only post in your own fucking forum and don't mingle with the rest of the site, then go suck each others dicks somewhere else. You fucking claim you stay away from cliques and the drama of tight-knit communities, but you just came out of the fucking closet as the biggest cock sucking cliques of the decade. I know there are some of you 2o4d guys that aren't like that because I see you all over the site and I can understand if you get pissed at me for talking like that about your sisters.

I know I shouldn't think it's hilarious...but I do.\r \r If people felt like they did nothing wrong, then no one would have gotten as defensive and out of control as they did. So say your apologies, and get back to playing video games.\r \r MJ ---You're my hero. :wink:

That site looks awesome.

can i still join 2o4d?\r \r

Mike James is now twice the bastard he once was.

lol T3, tell us how you really feel.-

Pictures worth a thousand words, mockups are designed to give you a full idea of the direction of the site and how people will react when they see the homepage for the first time.\r \r I think, based on that, you can see the direction the site is taking and it's more than just clan forums. Is that bad? No, you can do whatever you want, you've gotta maintain the site, it's your job.\r \r But, a slight conflict of interest here... you're going to be recruiting people at 2old2play because the community is fairly huge and established...but then tell them \"go to our website for posting your stuff, contests, oh, and yeah, we're gonna have some blogging stuff, and news areas if you want to post\" - that, to me, is a conflict of interest.\r \r If you want to make a site with that much detail then you should do it, but don't ride on the 2o2p community to get there without partnering or building some type of \"web bring\" to keep a relation with both sites but separate directions on them, like gamestooge and 2old2play, same people run it, but with different audiences and different directions.

Full Disclosure: I'm not associated with 2o4d - but I have gamed with a few of them and even had / have a few of them on my friends list.\r \r 1st: I give them props in design, they took something functional from 2o2p and made the presentation very nice. So hats off on creativity, even if they had not realized production rollout.\r \r 2nd: I think the admins handled this wrong. Leaders are meant to lead, not get brought down and wear issues on their sleeves. The sooner the public forum on this topic stops, the better. The issue however real or not needs to be address in closed circuit.\r \r 3rd: The forums for 2o4d should be openned up if they have not already. Suspending perpitrators or whatever is one thing, but punishing the full membership is absurd. Locking the forums is censorship of an organized group - and that's not an image you want for 2o2p.\r \r 4th: Dsmoth & Doodi, I respect you both for your commitment and personal investment into the success of 2o2p since inception. You both are reasonable folks and I'm sure feelings were hurt, but this site depends on the two of you to be strong, reasonable and have an open mind. Leading with a loose lip or iron fist is not going to win you any awards and it's not going to increase membership. Deal with the dirt as needed, but making it a public issue is a bit too ametur for what this site has become. Take a step back, get the site and forums on track, and resolve lingering issues in a business like and professional manner. It's lonely at the top, but that's why everyone cannot provide that level of service. \r \r I'm confident you will work this out. Just don't let the membership suffer and don't punish the masses. Now - back to gaming topics.\r \r I'm done participating in this topic.\r \r Just my 2 cents.\r \r Cheers,\r \r Tac

It sounds like some feelings could have been spared with some COMMUNICATION ahead of time. If 2old4duty could of came to site admins and said something like \"This is what we are doing and why...and maybe added that they wanted to borrow some code while they figured out how they wanted to set up their site, I am sure it could of saved some misunderstanding and I bet the admins may have even gone out of their way to help them out.

I have been known to due conflict of interest and I am sorry.

@ Tank\r \r Sorry, but you're wrong about the \"correct\" way for people in Doodi and DSmooth's to handle a situation like this. \r \r The did exactly the correct thing. It doesn't matter what the intention of 2o4d actually may have been, but the wrong way to handle someone, even in jest, tacking on a copyright symbol to something that rides on the marketing of your IP is to sit back and say 'I'm sure it's nothing and it'll sort itself out if we talk about it.\"\r \r That's the issue with operating something that can be used as a brand. Eventually, someone without any vested interest will notice an opportunity to make money off of what Doodi and everyone else here has helped to create. That includes the various clan leaders and members. And if Doodi et al don't work to protect that brand, even at the risk of being called assholes or having their operations criticized, then one day none of us could have a place like 2o2p to call home.\r \r Doodi and DS, you guys are doing what's right and what's needed. The fault here lies completely with whoever made the mock-up and the youtube vids. There's nothing wrong with people leaving to make their own site and syphon existing members of a specific clan to form a base; there is something very wrong with people trying to copyright your branding, even in jest or with no ill intent.

I will repeat what I (eventually) said to Aimzb -\r \r I seriously doubt the mods of 2O4D had anything malicious in mind. But what they did was at the very least in bad form and against the terms of service of this site.\r \r I feel bad for the 2O4D members that suddenly have no forums to post in. Locking those forums may have been reactionary but if it were my call to make I probably would have done the same thing. And I mean no offense by this, although the bluntness is sure to offend: If the 2O4D crowd want to have their own website then why let them use this one until theirs is up and running?\r \r And try as you may, it is hard to let personal feelings – especially feelings of betrayal – not get to you. And Derek, Derek, and J are certainly not the only ones making decisions and posts in such an emotional state.\r \r I am sorry for the situation Aimzb and the rest of his 2O4D friends are in. This certainly affects them more than me. But at the same time I am still going to stand up for Derek and Derek and J because in this case I think they are in the right.

Somebody post Tac's response on the main page, RACK EM!!\r \r Let's act like the adults we all claim to be, handle this like the professionals the site claim to be and live up to the standard that we have set forth in the gaming community. This is the kind of \"air our laundry\" crap that will keep this site from ever becoming more than just another community website.\r \r Doodi and DSmooth, I respect you and appreciate all that you have done, but you guys are SO MUCH better and bigger than this. I hope you guys can get this taken care someplace other than a blog and keep the forums unlocked. Good luck!

someone told me there was pie here.......\r \r someone lied to me.

The pie is a lie.

Maybe they meant hair pie

From the Terms of Service (fourth and fifth sentences here being the pertinent ones):\r \r You agree not to post any unsolicited ads, news, and links without the express permission of 2old2play.com. Violators will be removed from the site without warning. We respect your right to free speech, but not when you are only using our forum to sell something. This goes for any and all gaming sites, forums, products, etc. You agree to never use 2o2p bandwidth to host off site content including but not limited to photos, articles, videos, post, etc. Any content on 2o2p is solely owned by 2o2p and may not be redistributed without express written consent from\r 2ol2play.com.

I like Lemon Pie

exactly what drost said

Im a bit of a traditionalist.....I like apple pie.

I like pie.

Maybe some pumkin pie with some cinamon in it right now would be even good. A little whip cream on top. Some apple juice on the side to drink mmmmmm.....

did someone say they wanted pie? I got some cooling off right now.\r \r wow, this is a lot of drama, well I hope the 2o4d guys can do as well as NoD or NoG or whatever their name was.

Good find Drost, but I'm thinking that was added after all this stuff had been created. The most recent update shows up as August 13, 2008. So I'm pretty sure it's not retroactive.

the cake is a pie

FTW Pie-cake

The website was made to broaden the 2old4duty experience, not compete with 2old2play. We all love this site, and the result of miscomunication was a harsh and knee jerk reaction. You will have people who will defend both sides blindly. Both groups have people who think that there group can do no wrong, and will stay with there side no matter how many facts are presented and how many conversations accure to defuse the tensions. It sucks, but hey, perspective on things is a hard learned lesson. I think most of us have some perspective on the important things, and that is friendship and comradary. Oh, and that it is only a gaming website. We all will get through it and over it, well, most of us. Also, for the non 2o4d peeps, lumping us all into the asshole category is kinda uncalled for. Sounds pretty Prejudice to me. Pre-judging for those who are still in the dark is immature as hell, and this is supposed to be a MATURE gaming website. So let's all chill!\r w3rd

what the fuck is a frush?

Doodi and Dsmooth are not malicious. Being an admin is a shit job and you have to do it out of love for the creation...and they have put in a hell of a lot of effort into make something cool and for the most part succeeded. \r \r I would feel a little less irritated about comments being made about Doodi and Dsmooth if I saw something saying \"Yeah, I see how you could think X was going on. Sorry, lets work this out\".\r \r It seems that 1) D&D tried to work it out and give functionality here that 2old4duty wanted and 2) some in the 2old4duty group seem mainly interested in saying \"grow up [while we rip you off]\". Yeah, I don't know all of the story, but either you A) innocently gave the wrong impression, in which case you should be able to talk it out and either merge efforts or part cleanly, or B) really wanted to set up a site that can be construed to \"compete\" with 2old2play and got caught before you were ready to go prime time...in which case those key players should leave and stop the BS accusations and drama. If D&D are lying do you really want to be here anyway? \r \r Regardless, adult conduct goes both ways guys, and the pic sure makes your position look pretty poor. So...what were you really intending to accomplish (in simple terms and without all of the accusations and noise)?\r \r Oh, and The Pink Monkey is copyright Dastard Entertainment, LLC. \r \r *Pink*

That mockup is a bit damning to me. Has there been any \"official\" explanation from the powers that be with 2o4d about it?

I think i'm hours away from being a member of the OMM so, I'm stickin around.

Oh, and DS, you are crazy, a Dick, and Otherwise.\r \r Welcome to the club. :)

peepshow, i dont just consider 2o2p another gaming website, i have made friends for real here that i have actually met multiple times and talk to on the phone almost everyday, 2o2p is much more important then just another gaming website. \r \r there are also people on here like jolly roger who ive never met but feel for every time he blogs. i feel like a lot of the members here that i have gotten to know are like an extension of my family, people i care about and people who care about me, and this is all outside clans. \r

\"Also, for the non 2o4d peeps, lumping us all into the asshole category is kinda uncalled for. Sounds pretty Prejudice to me. Pre-judging for those who are still in the dark is immature as hell, and this is supposed to be a MATURE gaming website\"\r \r The founders will be the first to admit that this really isn't a mature website. And as for people lumping all the 2O4D guys and gals into 'the asshole category', well I really don't see that happening in any of the blogs.\r \r Otherwise some good points made.

@ Beldar,\r \r roflpwn.

I hate drama. I love pie. What Stryker, Tactica, Drost, etc. all said.

@Markus, actually, i did get the feeling that all members were being lumped into one category.

RivalJJH says:\r Good find Drost, but I'm thinking that was added after all this stuff had been created. The most recent update shows up as August 13, 2008. So I'm pretty sure it's not retroactive. \r \r http://www.2old2play.com/rules/TOS.pdf\r \r That would be 8/13/2007. The 8/07 update was to reflect the new NSFW rules. The competing website clause has been in there since go.

Can we talk about pie instead or how about apple bacon strips. MMMM tasty bacon with apple flavor. Everyone loves the bacon.

DA's right...and it is easy to make blanket statements. That is why I shifted to \"key players\" in the middle of my comment...I was lumping everyone together and that is not right.

@ATC see, I am in the camp that bacon should be pure and salty...not sweet

Everything is better with bacon, even 2old4duty.

or, hickory....mmmmm hickory bacon....

that site design looks pretty sexy

Another point to those that claim that airing this out in public was a bad way to handle things, let me ask, how would you have it done? In private, where if the OLs of 2o4d had to change the name of their site as an amicable resolution, people would whisper that D&D 'muscled' or 'threatened' the 2o4d OLs? In the dark is never the correct answer, ever.\r \r Want a few 'adult' examples? The yahoo board of directors and whichever shareholder it was that thought they should sell to MS. There was a lot of public mudslinging there.\r \r How about EA wanting to buy ...Take-Two? Rockstar? ... yeah, the CEO's published the letters they sent to each other.\r \r I don't think it's so much that this issue is aired in public that people are having a problem with, it's that this is our refuge from all that crap in the world.\r \r What makes us adults isn't that we don't air things in public, it's that once we've aired the issues we put it behind us and move on.\r \r All Doodi and DS have done is made the issue public, the mudslinging is being done by others. I said it in DS's first blog post and I'll re-iterate it here; copyrights are serious business and it doesn't matter why 2o4d decided to slap a copyright symbol on their page or what their intentions are. When you operate something that could be perceived as a brand by someone, you must treat all instances of even perceived infringement as hostile, at least to start.\r \r If people want to see adult behaviour, they can start by showing some. If that seems harsh, too bad. Doodi and DS are doing what they must with the situation they have. I'm pretty damned sure they don't like having to do it anymore than anyone likes to hear/read about it.\r \r Finally, to those that exclaim 'but it's tearing 2o2p apart!!', it's really not. Look at the Yahoo board of directors...they made it through their last shareholder meeting unscathed :wink:\r \r It sucks because this is the adult world. Maturity isn't preventing this from happening, it's about dealing with it and moving forward.\r \r Here's to hoping those affected move on and continue having fun. All bad times are transitory, and eventually we'll be laughing about it like we do the old Politics forum.\r \r Tolerance and understanding, it's what's in pie.

I always knew Plato was wise...

They have prewrapped sausages but they don't have prewrapped bacon?

hickory bacon, game over...nice work Automan

Palto can't be wise...he's Canadian. ROFL He's S-M-R-T!

@Sjam - barenaked ladies FTW...... So if I had a million dollars.

Fuck. A Canuk? If I had only known :)

D's milkshake brings all the boys to the yard.\r Damn right....its better than yours.....\r \r He can teach you.....but he'll have to charge.

that site design is tired...be original

+1 but you're still a dick.

To everyone claiming this is a site for \"mature\" gamers, WHAT FUCKING ROCK HAVE YOU BEEN HIDING UNDER?\r \r This site is NOT for MATURE gamers, never has been and never will be.

I get in enough trouble on my own, so I stayed out of it...sure you CAN be a dick while playing Halo but its all in good fun and I think you're a great person! :)

\"Mature\" in the sense that we all own hover rounds.

Can I get some ice cream with hot fudge and sprinkles please?

Still punching Bayman in his uterus.

I miss sabre's rule. Not really.\r \r \r Free 5solas.\r \r \r Hypocrisy FTW\r \r \r I like cake.

Hey I heard there was pie at the LAN. There was a LAN right?

I love pie. But I have NO idea how they get that lattice work top... I mean is it half as hard as I think?\r \r

Wow, all this from a guy who stole Doodi's blog banner and didn't even try to hide it ! lol\r 2old2play is a great site and I hate to see any of this drama.

i like cake

Dudes its a mockup. I think they will go to a active format so I can see why the admins here are mad at our clans overlord because he was a moderator here. I also think its childish to block all the 2o4d members from the clan forums. Basically in that two days you forced out about 50 2o2p members and sent them to this new site. I am a newly acquired 2o2f member and still a 2o4d member. I think Stangs designs are top notch and he does very good work on videos, website and promotions. Its too ....way too fawking bad this had to send a rift between good guys so I will say\r \r Mike james you may have your long hair and many a duty member may dispair but look to the sky and bark at the moon because septembers car show is fucking coming soon!! Bring your thrist and bring you dough we will hit the track, casino and watch the water flow.....on the strippers!! (bwahahahaaaa)

This whole thing sucks. I've been away for a week of vacation, and then a week of work and I come back to find all this nonsense.\r \r Locking the forums seems childish. I'm glad you've opened them back up. Kudos to you for that.\r \r I joined 2o2play a little more than a year ago and started looking for a clan. I was attracted to 2o4D, mainly because it was obviously one of the more active clans. Since then, 2o4D has been my home, and my group of buddies. A lot of people from 2o4D put a lot into making the clan work -- we published our own clan newsletter, set up fun game type tournaments only in the clan, and we also had our own website for quite a while. It was rarely used, but allowed us to have a place where we could do things like create smaller competetive teams and have private team only forums, directory structure to post photos, etc. \r \r I knew the clan overlords were working on revitalizing the site, but frankly never saw it as something that was designed to compete with 2o2p -- just as a place to add extra clan functionality -- things that we either can't get here, or don't function well here (like tournament ladders). Perhaps the OL's had bigger and grander plans, perhaps not. I don't claim to know their motives.\r \r But this whole thing seems blown way out of proportion. It's too bad things can't be worked out, but I guess that's just the way it is. We'll all live.\r \r I'm sure I'll keep my 2o2play log in and check in from time to time, but I'm also equally sure I'll be spending more of my time with the 2o4D folks, wherever they end up, or call themselves. They are my friends and my clan.\r \r

can't we all just get along?

100 comments thats got to be a record

101 I think

T3muJin: Glad to see where you stand. \r \r I know quite a few people who don't stray out of the OMM forums because they don't feel like dealing with adult asshattery in the public forums. So they should all go \"go suck each others dicks somewhere else\"?\r \r Thanks for proving just why a lot of members stay in their clan forums instead of being active across the more public venues.\r \r As for \"This site is NOT for MATURE gamers, never has been and never will be.\", the fact that there's an age requirement listed PROMINENTLY refutes this claim. Yes, it's pretty apparent that people can be over 25 and immature, but when a site claims that one of the biggest draws is that the age requirement is 25 then the implication is that because of the age requirement it is more mature than being on an \"all ages\" gaming forum.

We are an older site for life experience, not maturity...

if it was maturity we would all be banned lol

105

@Captiosus\r \r eat a dick, preferably somewhere else.\r \r also, see dante's video, it's on the front page, i assume since you made it out of your forum to come here, you can find the front fucking page of the site. from several horses mouths, this site isn't about maturity, it's about being an old fucktard\r

Figures I always show up late and miss the cake. DAMMIT!!!!!!!

I heard there was pie?\r

The whole copyright argument is mute. A name can be trademarked not copyrighted. A copyright is just for the published (written, photographic, etc.) content. DSmooth and Doodi could have talked to the OL of 2o4Duty but they didn’t. I feel like I was kicked out of a site and a shut out of a clan. A misunderstanding has been blown way out of proportion. DSmooth you are miffed at people judging you too quickly – but what did you do? Doodi the way to ask “what gives” is to the people involved not to the whole site. I think you guys have screwed the pooch here. Many of the 2o4Duty members promote 2old2play often. It’s in my Xbox gamercard bio and in many others.\r The opinions of the all the haters in the response to the blogs is BS. You are ass kissing and you don’t know what you are talking about. You are looking at the book but you are only seeing one page of the story. Perspective is everything and you can’t see everything from where you are.\r The picture is a moc up – not the actual site. The site has been up for a year and a half. Doodi knew of it and approved of it. It was never secret. It was used in addition to this site. No one was stealing anything. The site is not in competition with 2o2p. The reason it was made originally was because this site was down. The reason it was updated was to have better software for competition. The ladder software on this site has problems and that is not a secret! The “not just for Duty anymore” was because quite a few members are excited about the new shooters coming out in the next 6 months; Gears of War 2, Farcry 2, Fallout 3, Wolfenstien, etc. and/or Call of Duty World. At War. We want to continue to game together after some of these new releases. There’s more but no one asked! That’s the point –NO ONE ASKED!\r

Wow... this still going on?\r \r Wheres the pie?