2013 ALMS Development - Flying Lizards to leave Porsche?
#1
Fri, 10/26/2012 - 16:57
2013 ALMS Development - Flying Lizards to leave Porsche?
Development of the 997 GT3 RSR has ended, along w/ Flying Lizards role as Porsche's development team. Porsche is in the works developing the new 991 GT3 RSR for 2014. Kinda saw that one coming with the release of the new car.
Now for the shocker....
It sounds like there is a chance that Flying Lizards may be leaving Porsche next year. As of now, they are being very cryptic, but it certainly sounds like they will not be campaigning the 997 GT3 RSR while awaiting development of the 991.
Please don't let them be making a move to Dodge or Ferrari....gif "192")
I would like the see them run the existing 997 RSR through 2013 while awaiting the 2014 ruleset.
Or Chevrolet?
I would be ok w/ Flying Lizard Z06s.
It wouldn't be the same mind you, but ok.
How about the Lotus Evora?
Actually Chevy's running on a ZR1 platform now. REstricted, but a ZR1 none the less.
Z06, ZR1 same difference in GT2 trim.
Just a smaller motor!
I had not seen this. Thanks for posting.
This is a very interesting move considering it looks like the ALMS is going to go into a bit of a lame duck year with the pending merger. Why would you change cars when there is no idea of the upcoming rules?
Assuming they are not leaving Sportscar racing I am will to bet this move has to do with the factory drivers Bergmeister and Long. I would not be shocked if Porsche told the Lizards that they were pulling their factory drivers back and either reassigning them to another team or moving them to the WEC. I would imagine that it will be the WEC since Porsche Teams are limited in the ALMS at the moment.
I don't see Team Falken Tire getting factory drivers since they are a development team for Falken and I'm pretty sure Porsche will want to stick with Michelins. Paul Miller could be where they end up, assuming they move from Dunlops to Michelins. There could be some evidence for this since I noticed during Petit that their lead engineer is someone that Porsche assigns to teams and has a reputation for being brought in to turn teams around. However, the owner’s son drives for the team and they may not be willing to change that, unless of course they added a 2nd car, but that seems like a tall order.
So where does that leave the Lizards - If they continue in Sportscars and/or the ALMS next year I would imagine they will be switching the Ferrari 458. In my opinion I think it is the only move that makes sense. Look at what is available:
Corvette - Seems unlikely GM will allow ANYONE to challenge the factory team. Nothing to gain and a lot to lose. If you think back to LG Racing Corvette a couple of years ago that car was not built by Pratt and Miller (Factory builder) but by Riley and Scott without GM's blessing. They were given no support at all and at one point I believe they even ended up in court or at least threatened to.
BMW - This season was most likely their last. Their DTM program is a money drain and the US was the only market using these cars. Of course that may mean that RLR is moving back to Porsche and that is where the factory drivers are heading.
Viper - At the moment this is a pretty small deal and I believe it is only a 2 year guarantee. The team is pretty well entrenched with Chrysler/SRT so I doubt they will be adding teams. In fact I heard a rumor this will be a single car team next year. It does provide an interesting branding opportunity since the Flying Lizards and Viper logos are incredibly similar to one another. :)
Lotus - Perhaps that could work, but AJR has a 3 year deal in place and I don't think Lotus is physically capable of providing the cars at the moment. I spoke to one of their mechanics at Petit and they were running the ONLY 2012 spec engine that was available in the world. They had no spares except a very used 2011 spec motor. (Actually makes the fact they finished Petit that much more remarkable)
Ferrari - Too me this is the obvious choice. Ferrari has a proven track record of supplying customer cars and since the departure of Risi they need a big time team running the 458. With all due respect to ESM, and they deserve it after winning Petit, that team has underperformed compared to other teams running the 458. AF Corse came over during Sebring and spanked ESM soundly. The ESM cars look great but the 458 should be getting better results in the ALMS than is has.
Don't read too much into this, it all pretty much an educated guess. At the end of the day I just hope that we see the Lizards in the ALMS for its final season. Would be a big blow to sportscar racing if they were to go away.
McLaren MP4 12C GT3?
Not unless they are getting out of North American road racing and looking towards LMS or WEC.
Dean, I know you're probably right, that is the logical move. Doesn't mean I have to like it though.
I can afford to put a used Porsche in my garage...but there is no way in hell I'm ever going to be able to afford to put a used Ferrari there. Haha. Either way, ultimately I've been cheering for them too long to turn my back on them. But it will seem weird pulling for a Ferrari team.
You may not need to worry about it Sherb. I agree that the statement from FLM makes it sound like they are leaving Porsche but in the Porsche transition release they mention the how valuable the partnership has been to them.
http://www.sportssystems.com/novell/efx/email/filehost/AD176.pdf
Makes me think that this is just an announcemtent that the relationship has changed for next year and who knows what will happen in 2014. So now my thinking is that they will stay with Porshce. It may be without Long and Bergmeister but who knows.
I will say this. If they are staying with Porsche the whole press release from the Lizards seems a little pointless.
Whole point is to get attention, and it seems to be doing that quite well...
Yeah, I kinda got the same thing out of it when I re-read it. They would be losing some of the additional support they've been recieving as a development team with Porsche's shift to focus all energies to the new car. But there certainly isn't anything stopping them from running the 997 for one more year. Maybe they are looking at options since thier commitment to Porsche is complete, and they are leaving that door open. Though with Sebring only 4 months away, you'd think they would already be well underway w/ preparations for a new season.
Always a possibility of a PR stunt. Brilliant one too.
Is it not possible that McLaren wants to get into the American road racing scene?
I think it's very possible, but currently they don't have a car that is eligible for any U.S. series. Their current race car is GT3 spec. The ALMS does run GT3 spec cars in GTC but sadly it is limited to Porsche Cup cars only. There has been talk of opening it up to other makes but that hasn't happened yet.
Mercedes SLS AMG GT3? Is it possible to simply tinker with the restrictors to get either one of those cars ready for competition in the ALMS? Or, is it possible that the ALMS may be making some changes to the rule books? Just speculating because TBH, even though I love sports car racing I am not really that knowledgable about the vehicle configurations and the difference between the American and European series. They do share common events: Le Mans, Petit Le Mans and maybe one other...not sure. It would be cool to really get a look at how all these great drivers compare to one another. I mean, the R8 made it over here and competed in the Grand Am series. And, a 458 Italia actually won the GT class in that series.
The difference between GT3 & GT2 goes beyond just power. They also have a fair bit more mechanical grip, including but not limited to wider wheels & tires along w/ the corresponding bodywork. Take a look at the differences between either the Falken or Lizard 997 GT3 RSR and any of the GTC class 997 cup cars.....worlds apart. It would take a pretty major effort to convert an existing GT3 car to GT2 spec. While the GT3 RSR has GT3 in it's name, its from the model designation (997 GT3 road car), not for the class it's eligible for.
The ALMS cars are very close in spec to the ACO/FIA P1/P2/GT2 specs. There are subtle differences, but the rules were designed to allow teams running in the ALMS to be able to go to Europe and compete in the big races over there (24 Hours of Lemans) making very few changes. The Rolex Grand Am series (both prototype & GT) are nothing close to existing ACO/FIA specs. This is what scares me about the merger of ALMS & Rolex. I love the fact that we have teams that go to Europe each year to compete in the 24. If NASCAR gets too much control of the rules, I'm afraid the cars in the ALMS/Rolex merger series will be too far off the path of ACO/FIA specs and will not be eligible to run over there. Essentially an end to American international road racing.....
And with how much NASCAR has invested in the Rolex prototypes, they are going to be reluctant to change them much. And on top of that they'll be damned if the GT cars are going to come in and clean house.....which the GT2 spec cars are very capable of doing (the Rolex prototypes really aren't all that fast). As it is now, the current crop of Continental Tire GT cars are as fast as the Daytona Prototypes in a straight line, the protos just clean house in the corners. It's not like the difference between the P1/P2 & GT2 cars.
That's my take on it anyway. Dean will square me away if I'm off I'm sure (and it's quite possible). He's got connections.
Lol! I would say that is a very accurate explanation of something that is WAY more confusing than it needs to be.
As far as the merger, like you I have concerns, but at the moment all parties are saying the right the right things. I was encouraged when I saw that representatives from GrandAm and the ACO (Lemans) were at the state of the series address at Petit this year. There apparently have been representatives from the ALMS/GrandAm in France to discuss possible class structures with the ACO.
The merged series has said that the GT from the ALMS will remain largely untouched. The manufacturer involvement is too great even for NASCAR to ignore. They have meetings scheduled to meet with the each of the manufacturers to discuss rules, so hopefully they can come up with something that will be satisfactory for everybody.
Prototypes are a different story, I think. As you pointed out, GrandAm has too much invested in DPs. There are really only a handful of ALMS competitors in the top class. I think they will go away and DPs will become the top class. Of course it that happens there is the issue of speed, which you also mentioned. You're right the DPs are way too slow. How hard would it be to make them faster? Also, Porsche is supposed to be making a prototype that would compete against the Audi r18s and the Toyota. Would this mean we won’t get a chance to see them run here in the states...? That would suck.
Amongst my friends in the ALMS paddock there are a lot of mixed feelings regarding the merger. Many of the mechanics work for teams in both the GrandAm and the ALMS and they stand to lose a big chunk of income when the series merges. I also had one friend tell me that the biggest difference between the ALMS and GrandAm is the way rules are enforced. He said that when GrandAm finds out you are outside of the rules you get a slap on the wrist as opposed to the ALMS where they drop the hammer on you. He said the GrandAm rules enforcement is very discouraging as a competitor. I find that a little disheartening.
At the end of the day the die has been cast and no one asked us what we think, so I guess we will have to wait and see what happens. If it’s like most things it won’t be as good as I hoped for or as bad as I feared..gif "117")
If all that's true, the Lizards might not see a place for themselves after the merger...
This is exactly what scares me. Along with Corvette Racing and other teams that Lemans is a major point of their existence.
When in doubt, follow the money. Who's buying who? That's a major place to start.
With the cash cow that NASCAR currently is........
Hence being very afraid..gif "65")
ALMS had been hurting field wise for a couple years. The introduction of the new challenge classes (LMPC & GTC) helped quite a bit, but fields are still light in P1/P2. GT2 stayed pretty strong, and got stronger after the demise of GT1. But the prototype fields were in the tank. I kinda wonder if Audi broke the back in P1. It became a very expensive place to play 2nd fiddle. This year there was really only 2 players in P1...the Muscle Milk Aston Martin & Dyson Racing (2 car team).
All we can really do is wait and see. Speculation is just that...speculation.
I certainly expect there to be some huge changes even next year.
Now I'm afraid for American road racing too. I hope the merger doesn't screw things up.
I don't doubt it will be successful in it's own right, here on North American soil. But it stands to become limited to our soils again. That was the appeal for me of ALMS, is the ties to international sports car racing. Depending how things go in 2014 with the merger, next year could possibly be the last year you see American sports car teams in international competition for a while. Which to me, is a blow to US sports car racing.
Unless you see teams like Corvette Racing & Flying Lizards pulling out of American competition and going overseas to Europe.....
Going to be an interesting couple years for sure.