Anvilhenge Map Variant

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#1 Sun, 04/14/2013 - 13:17
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Anvilhenge Map Variant

Stonehenge and a round island. A perfect fit in Anvilhenge.

Please find in my DEEP NNN fileshare, a copy of this map. It has been tested by you people for CTF and Slayer and seems to work well enough for your Customs enjoyment. Easily supports 4v4, 8v8 and FFA to 16.

I have created a another reasonably exact reconstruction of Stonehenge's major stone structures as they would have looked if new. This map also includes elements from Stonehenge/Impact, REACH: MEGALITH and Halo 3: Stonehenge.

This map will see minor tweaks over time as well as more gametypes added like Extraction.

Callouts are fairly easy to remember.
One tree
Two trees
Three trees
Four Trees
One Antenna
Two Antennae
Altar Stone
Red/Blue Structures, ring, trilithons
Yellow fence/bridge



Oblique view.
Central Yellow Bridge and Fence.
Red Base looking towards Blue Base.
Four trees spawm looking towards Blue base.
Overhead view.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 17:24
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I played this with 2o2phalo they other night. Its a fun map. From the pictures it looks boring, but it did play very well.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 18:21 (Reply to #2)
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LegendcalledJim wrote:

I played this with 2o2phalo they other night. Its a fun map. From the pictures it looks boring, but it did play very well.

Thanks. :)

Mon, 04/15/2013 - 08:50
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Good one DEEP! Lots of action outside the ring.

Waypoint on the WEB and CONSOLE have upgraded fileshare access! Direct to xbox from the web, File Browser on the console, and direct access to friends fileshares from the console waypoint gamercards in the Barracks. Download and Recommend THIS and other great 2o2p forge maps.

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 08:06
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Dixon_Tufar wrote:

By the way, for Anvilhenge, I think you need to put some stuff more on the outside.  Like, if the two bases are North and South, those killing fields East and West need some things there.  Otherwise, everything funnels mostly to the middle. It seems like I run out of ammo on my primary weapon every life when I play on it with you guys.  Part of that reason, of course, is because I've got 10-16 targets to shoot running past my field of vision.

Where are you shooting from? I gather the killing zone you’re talking about is along the outside by the turrets? What do mean by “funnels mostly to the middle”? I need to know before giving a good answer.

FYI. Circle designs like Stonehenge influence normal human nature. Humans naturally avoid going inside that kind of structure because they feel watched and thus vulnerable. I have to entice people into it or they will go around it. That’s why you see the mancannons, teleporter and heavy weapons (need to add some I think).

If I add more cover along the sides, the problem I just mentioned is enhanced. I’m trying to keep the object count down too.  The budget is just over half used and after that there is greater likelihood of framerate problems.

You are running out of ammo because of sticking to the long sightlines. If the map offered a weapon solution inside the ring then you’d probably go for it thus entering new battle ground conditions before exiting.

 

 

 

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 08:45 (Reply to #5)
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DEEP_NNN wrote:

Dixon_Tufar wrote:

By the way, for Anvilhenge, I think you need to put some stuff more on the outside.  Like, if the two bases are North and South, those killing fields East and West need some things there.  Otherwise, everything funnels mostly to the middle. It seems like I run out of ammo on my primary weapon every life when I play on it with you guys.  Part of that reason, of course, is because I've got 10-16 targets to shoot running past my field of vision.

Where are you shooting from? I gather the killing zone you’re talking about is along the outside by the turrets? What do mean by “funnels mostly to the middle”? I need to know before giving a good answer.

FYI. Circle designs like Stonehenge influence normal human nature. Humans naturally avoid going inside that kind of structure because they feel watched and thus vulnerable. I have to entice people into it or they will go around it. That’s why you see the mancannons, teleporter and heavy weapons (need to add some I think).

If I add more cover along the sides, the problem I just mentioned is enhanced. I’m trying to keep the object count down too.  The budget is just over half used and after that there is greater likelihood of framerate problems.

You are running out of ammo because of sticking to the long sightlines. If the map offered a weapon solution inside the ring then you’d probably go for it thus entering new battle ground conditions before exiting.

 

 

 

 

Whadda ya mean "where am I shooting from"? The killing zones I'm talking about are those areas around the antenna. There's no cover there or anything, and unless you make it to the scant cover that is there, you're exposed the whole time, moving over to the other base.  There's nothing necessarily wrong with that, but put something out there that gives it a purpose.  

All the power weapons drop in the middle.  There's no need to even go to other parts of the map  You could just as easily cut off those sides, by the antenna, and the map would functionally play the same.  That pushes all the action towards the middle.  

I'm running out of ammo because there are a lot of people on that map, I put shots into things I see. For example, if I get by that rock/mancannon by the opposing base, I can usually put shots into folks as they're spawning, meaning they scurry back into their base to try to live, or they run to the middle weakened, and die easier from everyone else's efforts.  I'm also running out of ammo because there aren't any stinking weapons on the map.  There's no ammo.  I'll happily save a video Thursday if I make it, so you can see more of what I'm talking about.

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 09:11 (Reply to #6)
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Dixon_Tufar wrote:

DEEP_NNN wrote:

Dixon_Tufar wrote:

By the way, for Anvilhenge, I think you need to put some stuff more on the outside.  Like, if the two bases are North and South, those killing fields East and West need some things there.  Otherwise, everything funnels mostly to the middle. It seems like I run out of ammo on my primary weapon every life when I play on it with you guys.  Part of that reason, of course, is because I've got 10-16 targets to shoot running past my field of vision.

Where are you shooting from? I gather the killing zone you’re talking about is along the outside by the turrets? What do mean by “funnels mostly to the middle”? I need to know before giving a good answer.

FYI. Circle designs like Stonehenge influence normal human nature. Humans naturally avoid going inside that kind of structure because they feel watched and thus vulnerable. I have to entice people into it or they will go around it. That’s why you see the mancannons, teleporter and heavy weapons (need to add some I think).

If I add more cover along the sides, the problem I just mentioned is enhanced. I’m trying to keep the object count down too.  The budget is just over half used and after that there is greater likelihood of framerate problems.

You are running out of ammo because of sticking to the long sightlines. If the map offered a weapon solution inside the ring then you’d probably go for it thus entering new battle ground conditions before exiting.

 

 

 

 

Whadda ya mean "where am I shooting from"? The killing zones I'm talking about are those areas around the antenna. There's no cover there or anything, and unless you make it to the scant cover that is there, you're exposed the whole time, moving over to the other base.  There's nothing necessarily wrong with that, but put something out there that gives it a purpose.  

All the power weapons drop in the middle.  There's no need to even go to other parts of the map  You could just as easily cut off those sides, by the antenna, and the map would functionally play the same.  That pushes all the action towards the middle.  

I'm running out of ammo because there are a lot of people on that map, I put shots into things I see. For example, if I get by that rock/mancannon by the opposing base, I can usually put shots into folks as they're spawning, meaning they scurry back into their base to try to live, or they run to the middle weakened, and die easier from everyone else's efforts.  I'm also running out of ammo because there aren't any stinking weapons on the map.  There's no ammo.  I'll happily save a video Thursday if I make it, so you can see more of what I'm talking about.

I'd love a film. I went looking for the game film from the match LB capped but it was missing. I specifically wanted to watch how you played on it. Spawn killing from inside the enemies respawn zone and spawn hive, love to see that. I want to see the conditions that cause it. I might be able to do something about it and I might not. So far, I haven't seen one serious spawn killing instance. Even with 16 people. Maps play differently with Slayer too and I mostly have picked CTF for Anvilhenge. Depends on what we've played already. There's a reliable guy on Waypoint that swears the spawning system in Halo 4 is broken and real spawn traps can be set up if respawn areas are used. It takes a lot of cooperation to setup for testing. I just look at the films we get from normal games.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 15:20
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I've uploaded an updated version of this map to my fileshare. After next week's MM updates, I will assess 343i's weapon layout and possibly make more changes to this map.

Nothing too dramatic.
1. Replaced the wall gavlifts with ramps.
2. Added guides on the mancannons to reduce the chances of a bad or even lethal jumps.
3. Opened the rear sides of each base to improve entering and exiting. I noticed people got confused after grabbing the flag and couldn't find their way out.
4. Adjusted starting spawns to avoid congestion.
5. Adjusted tree spawn areas to reduce confusion and collision. Doubled the backing wall to prevent falling.
6. Added a central line of sight blocker on each side. You'll probably find Dixon there.
7. Added 4 pieces of cover on the edges. You'll probably find Dixon there too.
8. Lightened up the weapon selection a lot. Too much to write about. Took Dixon's comments about running out of ammo and added long rifle random drops where the Sniper and Railguns used to be. Please call them Dixon's Ammo Dumps. The weapon selection is still too heavy for Dixon-ites.

I've reviewed tons of films and haven't seen one instance of real spawn killing. Probably the only way to know for sure about spawn trapping and killing would be to have two completely unbalanced teams with specific instructions on what to try.

Base opening.

 

Mancannon guides.

 

New cover, doubled backing and central line of sight blocker.

 

Gravity lift to ramp changes.

From this.

To this.

To this.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 16:13
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I'll hop on tonight.  I'll play it with the new changes and I'll upload the video to the file share for you.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 16:25 (Reply to #9)
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Dixon_Tufar wrote:

I'll hop on tonight.  I'll play it with the new changes and I'll upload the video to the file share for you.

I'll hold off playing it until you are on.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 07:42
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Dixon, thanks for the game film. Watched it and continue to analyze. Still no spawn kills (I only checked your point of view) but the potential was there, as your style proved.

I have ideas for some potential LOS breakers but I have to weigh the number of objects against overall gameplay and how the map will be used for by 2old2play. If Forge was a real map editor I could put in some natural  hillocks and such but I'm stuck with objects, budget and framerate.

The weapons become naturally heavy with Infinity settings and it will take time/experience to make changes to them.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:25 (Reply to #11)
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DEEP_NNN wrote:

Dixon, thanks for the game film. Watched it and continue to analyze. Still no spawn kills (I only checked your point of view) but the potential was there, as your style proved.

I have ideas for some potential LOS breakers but I have to weigh the number of objects against overall gameplay and how the map will be used for by 2old2play. If Forge was a real map editor I could put in some natural  hillocks and such but I'm stuck with objects, budget and framerate.

The weapons become naturally heavy with Infinity settings and it will take time/experience to make changes to them.

Would it be good for the budget if the entire circle in the middle were lowered?  A camo sniper up there can cause some havoc, and it can be very hard to get an angle on someone up there, even if you know where they are.

 

I think the bases can be magnets for the spawn trapping, too.  If  team A gets a big push going, gets slaughtered and the other team pushes back, team A is spawning on the opposite side that the other team is pushing from or in the base.  That makes folks sit back in the base, which I assume is your desired result.  Smoothe's or Hoplite's POV might also confirm the things you're seeing on my POV, too.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:58 (Reply to #12)
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Dixon_Tufar wrote:

Would it be good for the budget if the entire circle in the middle were lowered?  A camo sniper up there can cause some havoc, and it can be very hard to get an angle on someone up there, even if you know where they are.

 

I think the bases can be magnets for the spawn trapping, too.  If  team A gets a big push going, gets slaughtered and the other team pushes back, team A is spawning on the opposite side that the other team is pushing from or in the base.  That makes folks sit back in the base, which I assume is your desired result.  Smoothe's or Hoplite's POV might also confirm the things you're seeing on my POV, too.

Circle cannot be lowered as the purpose of the map was to duplicate Stonehenge's original construction as best I could even if the map couldn't be made to work.  Your point is taken and I watch for the Camo sniper in each film and in each game we play.

So far I saw both Hoplite and Smoothie in a position to kill a spawner but didn't notice them until after the shooting started. Hoplite killed the spawner which stopped spawning. Smoothie was chased off the wall and the spawning continued. In CTF, there is a central flag away anti-respawn area that divides the respawns but theoretically it's influence should be mitigated by deaths. Flag away could be used for spawn killing but both side spawns would probably need to be covered by a very strong team. That takes two away from the objective.

I'm still reviewing and stopped in to check for posts. I'm in the process of checking the base spawning areas. The sides didn't have any spawning killing but some potential was there.

Actually, it's amazing to watch spawn hives in fast forward.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:16
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Let me play it and I'll let you know if I can spawn trap :)

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:57 (Reply to #14)
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Double T wrote:

Let me play it and I'll let you know if I can spawn trap :)

Go right ahead, it's in my fileshare. You'll need good help. Of course, you're always welcome on Thursday nights too.

The map, as you know, is a bit big for 4v4 and I highly doubt any kind of spawn trapping can occur with those numbers. 5v5 or 6v6 might be the sweet spot for testing. You'll need one team 'DEEP NNN' and one team 'Double T'. Then there is Slayer as well as CTF.

Testing is not easy. Spawn trapping must be quite difficult to organize and I'm not as worried about it but my knowledge on it is limited. Who would care anyway, if it never goes into AGL or something like that? 

Occasional to frequent spawn killing are my biggest concern. One real spawner killed is not huge but two in a row in the same spot could spell trouble. I've seen plenty of singular real spawn kills on the retail maps and even got some of them myself. I've only noted repeated spawn kill opportunities a few times. HARVEST for example, doesn't work for 16 player FFA. We used it for the Over 40 tournament and it was terrible for spawn killing. Too many open spawns with long sight lines on the outside edges where the engine was spawning us.This never happened on REACH maps that were a lot smaller.

I think it was you Double (Smoothie?) that mentioned spawn killing from the wall to a tree spawn was possible. Indeed it is. I haven't found anyone do it yet and then if it did happen would it repeat? So many variables. Anvilhenge is still fun to play on, in my opinion, and I doubt it'll ever make it into MM even if it was perfect. The Community Cartographers seem to be predominately competitive style players and their map selection is proving to show that trait.

I'll am very happy getting to play it with 2old2play members. :)

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 14:58
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I found a reasonable solution to the spawn killing concerns for the side spawns from top ring. I tried lots of workable solutions and no doubt there are better ones than I've settled on. I didn't want to move the respawn points since they appear to be working properly.

I hope to deploy it and other changes for Thursday.

Tue, 06/04/2013 - 10:54
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I realy wish I could play Thursdays, but thats when my first night shift of the week is. As far as the weqpons sit now, you will probably need to tweek the timers (if u can)
Tue, 06/04/2013 - 11:10 (Reply to #17)
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Double T wrote:
I realy wish I could play Thursdays, but thats when my first night shift of the week is. As far as the weqpons sit now, you will probably need to tweek the timers (if u can)
Just deleted a bunch more stuff. Upped the Sniper and Scattershot to 180. Changed the random long rifles to Initial repeating Ord. Carbine and BR. Eliminated the random genade types.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 13:43
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I want to try this in customs.  Let me know when you guys play.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 15:10 (Reply to #19)
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Shadow wrote:

I want to try this in customs.  Let me know when you guys play.

Site Wide starts officially at 9:00 Eastern tonight. Doesn't hurt to be a bit early for a seat. Sorry I couldn't join you today. My Dad called when I was in the middle of a game and I was talking for ~30 minutes.

Fri, 06/07/2013 - 09:44
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Oh Yeah! I think that was a shut-out victory for red team Thurs. nite, ...after repeated spankings by blue team! 

Fri, 06/07/2013 - 10:04 (Reply to #21)
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Kenjamin1 MI wrote:

Oh Yeah! I think that was a shut-out victory for red team Thurs. nite, ...after repeated spankings by blue team! 

At first, I thought we were going to get clobbered but it didn't happen. :)

I'm quite happy with the way the map is working. People seem to communicate a lot when playing on it. About the only thing I can do now is setup a controlled test. I don't think it needs it, for our style of play.

Maybe the competitive guys will spot something I haven't seen. :)

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 02:43
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I haven't played on it yet, and picking up a 4 day stretch will put a damper in me playing it for about a week.  I may download your version and have some peeps try to break it at the LAN.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 07:24 (Reply to #23)
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Double T wrote:

I haven't played on it yet, and picking up a 4 day stretch will put a damper in me playing it for about a week.  I may download your version and have some peeps try to break it at the LAN.

This reminds me, I have to upload the latest version. Very tiny difference. If you do find something, save the film please. :)

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