I agree that the skill matching system sucks and needs improvement.
The thing about the Infinity settings is that it makes outcomes even more lopsided. The better players, who are already getting more kills from the get-go, get their ordnance drops before the weaker players. So now not only are you down 10 kills, but you're suddenly fighting against Saws, Rockets, etc. Now you're down 15+ kills, and the better players' ordnance meters are already filling up again thanks to their Rocket and Saw kills.
Like Halo 2's weapon spawn system, Infinity ordnance is yet another example of the developers trying to fix what isn't broken and only making things worse because they don't think things through. At least the old way both teams had equal access to the weapons and it was learnable. All a weaker player needs to do is spend ten minutes in Forge to learn the weapon placements and timings. It's not that hard. I used to keep a list by my Xbox and just review the times before the game started. With Infinity ordnance, the winning team controls when and where the power weapons appear, and the losing team has no way to anticipate what weapons they'll be fighting against. It's just, "Surprise! You went around the corner and learned the hard way that they have a rocket launcher now. There's no way you could have anticipated that and avoided it or tricked him into wasting a rocket."
...Which also shows the inherent flaw with killstreaks/rewards: you're succeeding in a game and you're given something to make you succeed even more. If you continue that success, you're given another thing to continue it. If you do it even more, you're given yet another thing to make you more succesful. You can't go the other way with it either, because then you end up with Mario Kart where people in back get overpowered weapons and people up front get a banana peel.
I agree that the skill matching system sucks and needs improvement.
The thing about the Infinity settings is that it makes outcomes even more lopsided. The better players, who are already getting more kills from the get-go, get their ordnance drops before the weaker players. So now not only are you down 10 kills, but you're suddenly fighting against Saws, Rockets, etc. Now you're down 15+ kills, and the better players' ordnance meters are already filling up again thanks to their Rocket and Saw kills.
Like Halo 2's weapon spawn system, Infinity ordnance is yet another example of the developers trying to fix what isn't broken and only making things worse because they don't think things through. At least the old way both teams had equal access to the weapons and it was learnable. All a weaker player needs to do is spend ten minutes in Forge to learn the weapon placements and timings. It's not that hard. I used to keep a list by my Xbox and just review the times before the game started. With Infinity ordnance, the winning team controls when and where the power weapons appear, and the losing team has no way to anticipate what weapons they'll be fighting against. It's just, "Surprise! You went around the corner and learned the hard way that they have a rocket launcher now. There's no way you could have anticipated that and avoided it or tricked him into wasting a rocket."
...Which also shows the inherent flaw with killstreaks/rewards: you're succeeding in a game and you're given something to make you succeed even more. If you continue that success, you're given another thing to continue it. If you do it even more, you're given yet another thing to make you more succesful. You can't go the other way with it either, because then you end up with Mario Kart where people in back get overpowered weapons and people up front get a banana peel.
Of course, you're both right. However, players at each end of the skill gap think differently.
One of my top game memories involves me beating a saw (in the hands of a better player) with just a plasma pistol. The hologram AA got me in close. Another is skyjacking a banshee while at the top of a jetpack arc on Ragnarok, and intending to do just that. Snapshots are always great fun, and I'm getting better at making them. Point being.... Infinity settings make the game more fun for me. It wouldn't be as fun if I never got a jetpack, a hologram, active camo, or Promethian Vision. It wouldn't be as much fun if I never (or only very rarely) got a sniper rifle or rocket or other map pickup - which is precisely what happens when I play a game with equal start "pro" settings. Games like that seem a lot less "equal".
I agree that the skill matching system sucks and needs improvement.
The thing about the Infinity settings is that it makes outcomes even more lopsided. The better players, who are already getting more kills from the get-go, get their ordnance drops before the weaker players. So now not only are you down 10 kills, but you're suddenly fighting against Saws, Rockets, etc. Now you're down 15+ kills, and the better players' ordnance meters are already filling up again thanks to their Rocket and Saw kills.
Like Halo 2's weapon spawn system, Infinity ordnance is yet another example of the developers trying to fix what isn't broken and only making things worse because they don't think things through. At least the old way both teams had equal access to the weapons and it was learnable. All a weaker player needs to do is spend ten minutes in Forge to learn the weapon placements and timings. It's not that hard. I used to keep a list by my Xbox and just review the times before the game started. With Infinity ordnance, the winning team controls when and where the power weapons appear, and the losing team has no way to anticipate what weapons they'll be fighting against. It's just, "Surprise! You went around the corner and learned the hard way that they have a rocket launcher now. There's no way you could have anticipated that and avoided it or tricked him into wasting a rocket."
...Which also shows the inherent flaw with killstreaks/rewards: you're succeeding in a game and you're given something to make you succeed even more. If you continue that success, you're given another thing to continue it. If you do it even more, you're given yet another thing to make you more succesful. You can't go the other way with it either, because then you end up with Mario Kart where people in back get overpowered weapons and people up front get a banana peel.
Of course, you're both right. However, players at each end of the skill gap think differently.
One of my top game memories involves me beating a saw (in the hands of a better player) with just a plasma pistol. The hologram AA got me in close. Another is skyjacking a banshee while at the top of a jetpack arc on Ragnarok, and intending to do just that. Snapshots are always great fun, and I'm getting better at making them. Point being.... Infinity settings make the game more fun for me. It wouldn't be as fun if I never got a jetpack, a hologram, active camo, or Promethian Vision. It wouldn't be as much fun if I never (or only very rarely) got a sniper rifle or rocket or other map pickup - which is precisely what happens when I play a game with equal start "pro" settings. Games like that seem a lot less "equal".
What you seem to be describing is going into a team game with individuals against a team with a plan. Weappons respawn on a timer. They respawn in the same locations. That's known, so you have to battle over those areas in the maps at those times if you want access to that weapon. The answer isn't to just let all the power weapons fall from the sky.
...One of my top game memories involves me beating a saw (in the hands of a better player) with just a plasma pistol. The hologram AA got me in close. Another is skyjacking a banshee while at the top of a jetpack arc on Ragnarok, and intending to do just that. Snapshots are always great fun, and I'm getting better at making them. Point being.... Infinity settings make the game more fun for me. It wouldn't be as fun if I never got a jetpack, a hologram, active camo, or Promethian Vision. It wouldn't be as much fun if I never (or only very rarely) got a sniper rifle or rocket or other map pickup - which is precisely what happens when I play a game with equal start "pro" settings. Games like that seem a lot less "equal".
Minotaur, what you describe is exactly the kind of random events that do not belong in Halo or at least the Halo most of us know and love. I'm talking about the Halo we played before Reach and H4 changed the game in many ways that were not enjoyable for those of us that played H2 and H3 like crazy.
I didn't play my first game of online MM until H3 in 2008. I was hooked immediately even though I was awful. Reach came out and I played less Halo. H4 came out and I played even less Halo. As it stands now, I've played approximately 3000 games of Reach and 2000 games of H4. I played 6400 games of H3. Playing H4 now just feels like a chore. If not for my desire to hang out with my Halo friends, I'd be done with H4. In fact, once Destiny hits, I don't see myself playing Halo again until MCC in November.
I am not competitive enough skill-wise to be a good player, but mentally I just enjoyed the challenge of H3 over the games that followed. In H3, most battles that you lose is because - for the most part - one person out plays the other. The randomness introduced by Reach and H4 provided the scenarios you describe above where people get kills based solely on their loadouts and not necessarily due to skill.
AAs like Camo and PV also slow down the game for me. Camo is probably the most annoying as it just makes me stop to try and find the person or I'll just avoid the area and let them hide. When I hear the PV ping, I'll just stand still and wait for it to run out and then engage or just go another direction. How is any of that fun? The flow of the game is stopped while I wait or just go a different direction becuase I can't be bothered trying to find somebody hiding with Camo.
Infinity settings either have to either go or stay for H5. We've seen the Halo community isn't interested in a game built around Infinity settings, but then simply removed for one special playlist. I'm still not sold on H5 and 343's "arena shooter". I still see stuff in the Beta video like Sprint and AAs that makes me wonder about what they are really trying to do with Halo. At least we'll have the H5 Beta this time, so we'll know ahead of time if the game will be worth another purchase.
Point being.... Infinity settings make the game more fun for me. It wouldn't be as fun if I never got a jetpack, a hologram, active camo, or Promethian Vision. It wouldn't be as much fun if I never (or only very rarely) got a sniper rifle or rocket or other map pickup - which is precisely what happens when I play a game with equal start "pro" settings. Games like that seem a lot less "equal".
Like Dixon said, this is more a problem with the skill matching system than the design of a game like Halo 1/2/3. With better skill matching, players who don't know (or aren't interested in knowing) about map control would play against each other. You'd have a more or less equal shot at stumbling across a power weapon if nobody in that game knows how to get them. Better skill matching is the solution, not randomness.
I get my butt kicked from time to time because of bad skill matching, so I feel your pain. I'd still rather lose in a structured game where at least I can learn something from my mistakes than lose because of randomness, where there's nothing to be learned. I'd rather feel like I got outplayed than screwed over by random bad luck.
Point being.... Infinity settings make the game more fun for me. It wouldn't be as fun if I never got a jetpack, a hologram, active camo, or Promethian Vision. It wouldn't be as much fun if I never (or only very rarely) got a sniper rifle or rocket or other map pickup - which is precisely what happens when I play a game with equal start "pro" settings. Games like that seem a lot less "equal".
Like Dixon said, this is more a problem with the skill matching system than the design of a game like Halo 1/2/3. With better skill matching, players who don't know (or aren't interested in knowing) about map control would play against each other. You'd have a more or less equal shot at stumbling across a power weapon if nobody in that game knows how to get them. Better skill matching is the solution, not randomness.
I get my butt kicked from time to time because of bad skill matching, so I feel your pain. I'd still rather lose in a structured game where at least I can learn something from my mistakes than lose because of randomness, where there's nothing to be learned. I'd rather feel like I got outplayed than screwed over by random bad luck.
I regret that I only have one like to give.
One of the massive differences in, say, Call Of Duty, to Halo for me, is that when I die in Halo, I know why. Its because I did something wrong or they did something right. Its because my team was outmatched or outplayed or I choked and didn't get the kill in four shorts and the opponent did, or even because my opponent has a nasty strafe that I just can't seem to keep up with. Every death is explainable and potentially a teaching moment. I honestly don't mind losing in ranked Halo matches, assuming there are no shenanigans, because the other team is just better. That means there's more work left to do.
In Call Of Duty, that's not quite the case. Sure, you can get outmatched or outplayed, but there's just so much random fluff that goes on that pushes the encounters from being teaching moments. I got killed by a missile that dropped from the sky. Well. I can't exactly do anything about that. I got killed by a sneakily placed tripmine. Well, maybe I need to walk more...thoughtfully? Someone shoots a random noob tube from across the board and kills me? Additionally, the total lack of matchmaking and dropping in and out of matches means games start against players that you have no business playing against. It all adds up to a game that's done exceptionally well for what it is, but just feels pretty empty.
Of course, you're both right. However, players at each end of the skill gap think differently.
One of my top game memories involves me beating a saw (in the hands of a better player) with just a plasma pistol. The hologram AA got me in close. Another is skyjacking a banshee while at the top of a jetpack arc on Ragnarok, and intending to do just that. Snapshots are always great fun, and I'm getting better at making them. Point being.... Infinity settings make the game more fun for me. It wouldn't be as fun if I never got a jetpack, a hologram, active camo, or Promethian Vision. It wouldn't be as much fun if I never (or only very rarely) got a sniper rifle or rocket or other map pickup - which is precisely what happens when I play a game with equal start "pro" settings. Games like that seem a lot less "equal".
I get what you're saying. When you're having a bad game it's nice to get handed a rocket launcher or sniper or something so you can at least try to break even. But you have to keep in mind, you're struggling and just got handed a rocket launcher. The other team is dominating and they ALSO have a rocket launcher. And if they're doing that much better, your rocket launcher will probably just turn into ammo for theirs.
Snapshots are always great fun, and I'm getting better at making them.
the fact that you call them Snapshot and not "no scope" is like a microcosm of the problems........ sigh
See, now this is where you are off the rails. You are being part of the problem. A guy just said something he has fun with in the game and you gave him a backhand slap for saying it.
That is exactly what I was getting at about telling people they should hate what they like.
Snapshots are always great fun, and I'm getting better at making them.
the fact that you call them Snapshot and not "no scope" is like a microcosm of the problems........ sigh
If Jeff Steitzer said "No Scope", that's what I would have typed. He doesn't in any Halo game. He does say "S N A P S H O T".
One of the things I like most about 2o2p is the maturity. Usually, by the time we reach the age we are, we've already raised or are raising children (noobs). We know how to encourage and infuse enthusiasm, and we know how important those are to their future success.
I have an idea. What if there were Skull Streaks. When you get three kills in a row, Fog turns on for you. At six, you also get Black Eye. Nine gives Cloud. Earning kills with skulls on will be much harder obviously, but they could somehow make rewards for players so they'll really want to succeed.
You guys can talk this to death but it's all moot. You are wasting your time. All of the existing Halo titles plus one hybrid will be re-released in 3 months. Nothing is going to change to existing titles except graphics, 1080p, 60FPS and dedicated servers. The H2A hybrid has already shown some map designs similar to REACH and Halo 4 and it only has 6 maps. Ultra competitive players will not be able to survive on those alone if they even like what is created and I really doubt they will. I read the rumbles everyday. It goes from Halo is saved to it's a piece of shit.
Halo 5 Beta is your truest hope for something to argue for and against and it's got 7 arena maps and only going to last 3 weeks. Do you really think any developer is going to field a complete multiplayer environment similar to the H5 Beta? Not going to happen. Ordnance and loadouts may go away but game-over guns and vehicles will rule the Halo landscape as they always have. Sprint will be in. Camo will be in. Overshields will be in. Spawning will be just as complicated and convoluted as it has always been.
People will play the titles they like and it's as simple as that. We continue play weekly and have fun, in spite of all the blemishes Halo 4 has. I know it's day is done but it's almost 2 years in and people still play, for fun.
H5 will probably be better but it's so thoroughly stupid to think it's going to be a competitive player's wet dream. When it releases, I hope a certain few members around here will have the decency to let people who like the game, enjoy the forums and chat about it without some mean fuck dropping in to say how they should be hating it.
You guys can talk this to death but it's all moot. You are wasting your time. All of the existing Halo titles plus one hybrid will be re-released in 3 months. Nothing is going to change to existing titles except graphics, 1080p, 60FPS and dedicated servers. The H2A hybrid has already shown some map designs similar to REACH and Halo 4 and it only has 6 maps. Ultra competitive players will not be able to survive on those alone if they even like what is created and I really doubt they will. I read the rumbles everyday. It goes from Halo is saved to it's a piece of shit.
Halo 5 Beta is your truest hope for something to argue for and against and it's got 7 arena maps and only going to last 3 weeks. Do you really think any developer is going to field a complete multiplayer environment similar to the H5 Beta? Not going to happen. Ordnance and loadouts may go away but game-over guns and vehicles will rule the Halo landscape as they always have. Sprint will be in. Camo will be in. Overshields will be in. Spawning will be just as complicated and convoluted as it has always been.
People will play the titles they like and it's as simple as that. We continue play weekly and have fun, in spite of all the blemishes Halo 4 has. I know it's day is done but it's almost 2 years in and people still play, for fun.
H5 will probably be better but it's so thoroughly stupid to think it's going to be a competitive player's wet dream. When it releases, I hope a certain few members around here will have the decency to let people who like the game, enjoy the forums and chat about it without some mean fuck dropping in to say how they should be hating it.
For me, it's all about having a good time. If there's good skill matching, sure, I'd be perfectly happy with an "equal start" MLG type game. If skill matching sucks, give me Inifinity settings and loadouts. A rocket to the face of your tea bagging bragadocious opponent makes up for a lot of respawn screens.... :)
Darth... I miss playing Reach with you and the crew...
I played an H3 team slayer game last year where everyone was a noob. No one picked up the sniper rifles in the Pit - except me... :) That was a fun game...
For me, it's all about having a good time. If there's good skill matching, sure, I'd be perfectly happy with an "equal start" MLG type game. If skill matching sucks, give me Inifinity settings and loadouts. A rocket to the face of your tea bagging bragadocious opponent makes up for a lot of respawn screens.... :)
Darth... I miss playing Reach with you and the crew...
I played an H3 team slayer game last year where everyone was a noob. No one picked up the sniper rifles in the Pit - except me... :) That was a fun game...
If they had put as much effort into good matching as they did with stupid crap like infinity ordnance, broken armor abilities, etc., none of this would have been a problem.
I used to laugh at how Reach had all these elaborate "psych profile" matching settings, where you could filter your matching by personality types, chattiness, etc., and yet I could hardly get a game on a decent connection. I actually kept a list for a few days and found that I was matching Mexicans and Columbians about 70% of the games (which is ridiculous since I live in the north east), and they would inevitably be eating bullets and lagging all over the screen the entire time. And H3's "prefer good connection" was a joke because all it did was look for someone with a huge amount of bandwidth, so instead of matching an opponent 100 miles away with low latency, you were actually more likely to match against some guy in Sweden or South Korea with 100MB upload but huge latency because of the distance, so the actual game experience only got worse.
It's like the developers get so excited about all the fancy bells and whistles that they forget to get the basics right first. I guess Bungie thought personality type was more important than a playable connection or fair skill matching.
In this community, I play with all skill levels. I enjoy every second I have with this diverse group.
I love winning and can tolerate losing. Soon we'll have the opportunity to play Halo games with a rich heritage of both competition and fun. I look forward to it, in spite of these fucked up forums.
In this community, I play with all skill levels. I enjoy every second I have with this diverse group.
I love winning and can tolerate losing. Soon we'll have the opportunity to play Halo games with a rich heritage of both competition and fun. I look forward to it, in spite of these fucked up forums.
The only reason you think the forums are fucked up is because they're not 100% supportive 100% of the time.
In this community, I play with all skill levels. I enjoy every second I have with this diverse group.
I love winning and can tolerate losing. Soon we'll have the opportunity to play Halo games with a rich heritage of both competition and fun. I look forward to it, in spite of these fucked up forums.
The only reason you think the forums are fucked up is because they're not 100% supportive 100% of the time.
Not correct at all. But I do believe a fan forum for a game should be mostly about liking and investing in the game and not hating on it or those who like it. My understanding for many things is, if you hate something, stay away from it if all you serve to do is make those who do not hate it, miseable.
If I liked a Halo title, then began to hate it because of changes, I might drop one turd but returning again and again to drop more turds, that's just wrong. It's a poisonous social problem.
Not correct at all. But I do believe a fan forum for a game should be mostly about liking and investing in the game and not hating on it or those who like it. My understanding for many things is, if you hate something, stay away from it if all you serve to do is make those who do not hate it, miseable.
If I liked a Halo title, then began to hate it because of changes, I might drop one turd but returning again and again to drop more turds, that's just wrong. It's a poisonous social problem.
One man's opinion is another man's turd. I came here, stated that I'm hopeful about the focus of the next Halo's, stated depth makes a game better, tried to understand your opinion, and was met with a literal fuck you. On the upside, it hasn't made my life miserable.
Snapshots are always great fun, and I'm getting better at making them.
the fact that you call them Snapshot and not "no scope" is like a microcosm of the problems........ sigh
See, now this is where you are off the rails. You are being part of the problem. A guy just said something he has fun with in the game and you gave him a backhand slap for saying it.
That is exactly what I was getting at about telling people they should hate what they like.
My statement was not derrogatory towards the poster - my disdain was towards Bungie/343 and their changing what has been part of the community and gameplay. That's a tiny tiny thing but no one has ever said "Snapshot" before they made that up for the announcer. Every single everything has said "no scope!" when a non-scoped sniper shot happens. Bungie/343 should apply what the community does and says, not depart from it. Same thing goes with the medals, etc.
DEEP_NNN wrote:
Dixon_Tufar wrote:
DEEP_NNN wrote:
In this community, I play with all skill levels. I enjoy every second I have with this diverse group.
I love winning and can tolerate losing. Soon we'll have the opportunity to play Halo games with a rich heritage of both competition and fun. I look forward to it, in spite of these fucked up forums.
The only reason you think the forums are fucked up is because they're not 100% supportive 100% of the time.
Not correct at all. But I do believe a fan forum for a game should be mostly about liking and investing in the game and not hating on it or those who like it. My understanding for many things is, if you hate something, stay away from it if all you serve to do is make those who do not hate it, miseable.
If I liked a Halo title, then began to hate it because of changes, I might drop one turd but returning again and again to drop more turds, that's just wrong. It's a poisonous social problem.
In this community, I play with all skill levels. I enjoy every second I have with this diverse group.
I love winning and can tolerate losing. Soon we'll have the opportunity to play Halo games with a rich heritage of both competition and fun. I look forward to it, in spite of these fucked up forums.
The only reason you think the forums are fucked up is because they're not 100% supportive 100% of the time.
Not correct at all. But I do believe a fan forum for a game should be mostly about liking and investing in the game and not hating on it or those who like it. My understanding for many things is, if you hate something, stay away from it if all you serve to do is make those who do not hate it, miseable.
If I liked a Halo title, then began to hate it because of changes, I might drop one turd but returning again and again to drop more turds, that's just wrong. It's a poisonous social problem.
I think perhaps you're looking for the Bungie forums where other white knights are also quick to defend every aspect of the game and they even lock or delete negative threads. This being a forum for gamers, people are allowed to say what they like. And as you said, if you hate something stay away from it. If you don't like the things Dixon or anyone else is saying, stop reading them.
In this community, I play with all skill levels. I enjoy every second I have with this diverse group.
I love winning and can tolerate losing. Soon we'll have the opportunity to play Halo games with a rich heritage of both competition and fun. I look forward to it, in spite of these fucked up forums.
The only reason you think the forums are fucked up is because they're not 100% supportive 100% of the time.
Not correct at all. But I do believe a fan forum for a game should be mostly about liking and investing in the game and not hating on it or those who like it. My understanding for many things is, if you hate something, stay away from it if all you serve to do is make those who do not hate it, miseable.
If I liked a Halo title, then began to hate it because of changes, I might drop one turd but returning again and again to drop more turds, that's just wrong. It's a poisonous social problem.
I think perhaps you're looking for the Bungie forums where other white knights are also quick to defend every aspect of the game and they even lock or delete negative threads. This being a forum for gamers, people are allowed to say what they like. And as you said, if you hate something stay away from it. If you don't like the things Dixon or anyone else is saying, stop reading them.
I have a lot of good reasons to be hanging around here, in case you didn't notice.
I have no intention of leaving this forum and may even ask to be moderator again. Sorry to disappoint you and and couple of other people.
Dixon does what he can around here but like me, he's too invested in Halo to be a moderator of these forums. Unfortunately there are very few offering to do the job and even fewer are capable. You're welcome to ask Doodirock for the position. I will give you a great reference.
In this community, I play with all skill levels. I enjoy every second I have with this diverse group.
I love winning and can tolerate losing. Soon we'll have the opportunity to play Halo games with a rich heritage of both competition and fun. I look forward to it, in spite of these fucked up forums.
The only reason you think the forums are fucked up is because they're not 100% supportive 100% of the time.
Not correct at all. But I do believe a fan forum for a game should be mostly about liking and investing in the game and not hating on it or those who like it. My understanding for many things is, if you hate something, stay away from it if all you serve to do is make those who do not hate it, miseable.
If I liked a Halo title, then began to hate it because of changes, I might drop one turd but returning again and again to drop more turds, that's just wrong. It's a poisonous social problem.
I think perhaps you're looking for the Bungie forums where other white knights are also quick to defend every aspect of the game and they even lock or delete negative threads. This being a forum for gamers, people are allowed to say what they like. And as you said, if you hate something stay away from it. If you don't like the things Dixon or anyone else is saying, stop reading them.
I have a lot of good reasons to be hanging around here, in case you didn't notice.
I have no intention of leaving this forum and may even ask to be moderator again. Sorry to disappoint you and and couple of other people.
Dixon does what he can around here but like me, he's too invested in Halo to be a moderator of these forums. Unfortunately there are very few offering to do the job and even fewer are capable. You're welcome to ask Doodirock for the position. I will give you a great reference.
I dunno, man. I like to think I'm pretty even-handed.
...Which also shows the inherent flaw with killstreaks/rewards: you're succeeding in a game and you're given something to make you succeed even more. If you continue that success, you're given another thing to continue it. If you do it even more, you're given yet another thing to make you more succesful. You can't go the other way with it either, because then you end up with Mario Kart where people in back get overpowered weapons and people up front get a banana peel.
Of course, you're both right. However, players at each end of the skill gap think differently.
One of my top game memories involves me beating a saw (in the hands of a better player) with just a plasma pistol. The hologram AA got me in close. Another is skyjacking a banshee while at the top of a jetpack arc on Ragnarok, and intending to do just that. Snapshots are always great fun, and I'm getting better at making them. Point being.... Infinity settings make the game more fun for me. It wouldn't be as fun if I never got a jetpack, a hologram, active camo, or Promethian Vision. It wouldn't be as much fun if I never (or only very rarely) got a sniper rifle or rocket or other map pickup - which is precisely what happens when I play a game with equal start "pro" settings. Games like that seem a lot less "equal".
What you seem to be describing is going into a team game with individuals against a team with a plan. Weappons respawn on a timer. They respawn in the same locations. That's known, so you have to battle over those areas in the maps at those times if you want access to that weapon. The answer isn't to just let all the power weapons fall from the sky.
Minotaur, what you describe is exactly the kind of random events that do not belong in Halo or at least the Halo most of us know and love. I'm talking about the Halo we played before Reach and H4 changed the game in many ways that were not enjoyable for those of us that played H2 and H3 like crazy.
I didn't play my first game of online MM until H3 in 2008. I was hooked immediately even though I was awful. Reach came out and I played less Halo. H4 came out and I played even less Halo. As it stands now, I've played approximately 3000 games of Reach and 2000 games of H4. I played 6400 games of H3. Playing H4 now just feels like a chore. If not for my desire to hang out with my Halo friends, I'd be done with H4. In fact, once Destiny hits, I don't see myself playing Halo again until MCC in November.
I am not competitive enough skill-wise to be a good player, but mentally I just enjoyed the challenge of H3 over the games that followed. In H3, most battles that you lose is because - for the most part - one person out plays the other. The randomness introduced by Reach and H4 provided the scenarios you describe above where people get kills based solely on their loadouts and not necessarily due to skill.
AAs like Camo and PV also slow down the game for me. Camo is probably the most annoying as it just makes me stop to try and find the person or I'll just avoid the area and let them hide. When I hear the PV ping, I'll just stand still and wait for it to run out and then engage or just go another direction. How is any of that fun? The flow of the game is stopped while I wait or just go a different direction becuase I can't be bothered trying to find somebody hiding with Camo.
Infinity settings either have to either go or stay for H5. We've seen the Halo community isn't interested in a game built around Infinity settings, but then simply removed for one special playlist. I'm still not sold on H5 and 343's "arena shooter". I still see stuff in the Beta video like Sprint and AAs that makes me wonder about what they are really trying to do with Halo. At least we'll have the H5 Beta this time, so we'll know ahead of time if the game will be worth another purchase.
Like Dixon said, this is more a problem with the skill matching system than the design of a game like Halo 1/2/3. With better skill matching, players who don't know (or aren't interested in knowing) about map control would play against each other. You'd have a more or less equal shot at stumbling across a power weapon if nobody in that game knows how to get them. Better skill matching is the solution, not randomness.
I get my butt kicked from time to time because of bad skill matching, so I feel your pain. I'd still rather lose in a structured game where at least I can learn something from my mistakes than lose because of randomness, where there's nothing to be learned. I'd rather feel like I got outplayed than screwed over by random bad luck.
I regret that I only have one like to give.
One of the massive differences in, say, Call Of Duty, to Halo for me, is that when I die in Halo, I know why. Its because I did something wrong or they did something right. Its because my team was outmatched or outplayed or I choked and didn't get the kill in four shorts and the opponent did, or even because my opponent has a nasty strafe that I just can't seem to keep up with. Every death is explainable and potentially a teaching moment. I honestly don't mind losing in ranked Halo matches, assuming there are no shenanigans, because the other team is just better. That means there's more work left to do.
In Call Of Duty, that's not quite the case. Sure, you can get outmatched or outplayed, but there's just so much random fluff that goes on that pushes the encounters from being teaching moments. I got killed by a missile that dropped from the sky. Well. I can't exactly do anything about that. I got killed by a sneakily placed tripmine. Well, maybe I need to walk more...thoughtfully? Someone shoots a random noob tube from across the board and kills me? Additionally, the total lack of matchmaking and dropping in and out of matches means games start against players that you have no business playing against. It all adds up to a game that's done exceptionally well for what it is, but just feels pretty empty.
I get what you're saying. When you're having a bad game it's nice to get handed a rocket launcher or sniper or something so you can at least try to break even. But you have to keep in mind, you're struggling and just got handed a rocket launcher. The other team is dominating and they ALSO have a rocket launcher. And if they're doing that much better, your rocket launcher will probably just turn into ammo for theirs.
the fact that you call them Snapshot and not "no scope" is like a microcosm of the problems........ sigh
That is exactly what I was getting at about telling people they should hate what they like.
If Jeff Steitzer said "No Scope", that's what I would have typed. He doesn't in any Halo game. He does say "S N A P S H O T".
One of the things I like most about 2o2p is the maturity. Usually, by the time we reach the age we are, we've already raised or are raising children (noobs). We know how to encourage and infuse enthusiasm, and we know how important those are to their future success.
or you can heat up the spaghetti o's and not eat them
You guys can talk this to death but it's all moot. You are wasting your time. All of the existing Halo titles plus one hybrid will be re-released in 3 months. Nothing is going to change to existing titles except graphics, 1080p, 60FPS and dedicated servers. The H2A hybrid has already shown some map designs similar to REACH and Halo 4 and it only has 6 maps. Ultra competitive players will not be able to survive on those alone if they even like what is created and I really doubt they will. I read the rumbles everyday. It goes from Halo is saved to it's a piece of shit.
Halo 5 Beta is your truest hope for something to argue for and against and it's got 7 arena maps and only going to last 3 weeks. Do you really think any developer is going to field a complete multiplayer environment similar to the H5 Beta? Not going to happen. Ordnance and loadouts may go away but game-over guns and vehicles will rule the Halo landscape as they always have. Sprint will be in. Camo will be in. Overshields will be in. Spawning will be just as complicated and convoluted as it has always been.
People will play the titles they like and it's as simple as that. We continue play weekly and have fun, in spite of all the blemishes Halo 4 has. I know it's day is done but it's almost 2 years in and people still play, for fun.
H5 will probably be better but it's so thoroughly stupid to think it's going to be a competitive player's wet dream. When it releases, I hope a certain few members around here will have the decency to let people who like the game, enjoy the forums and chat about it without some mean fuck dropping in to say how they should be hating it.
Come on DEEP. At least this gives us something to talk about and squabble over. You know how us Halo players like to bicker over which game is best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7Q-m2Ki63Q
OOOOOOOO y'all made Deep say "wet dream" and "fuck". I'm impressed! Deep please don't edit it. :D
Carry on.
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should've stuck with the spaghetti o's I guess
I say to Deep: Thank you sir may I have another?
For me, it's all about having a good time. If there's good skill matching, sure, I'd be perfectly happy with an "equal start" MLG type game. If skill matching sucks, give me Inifinity settings and loadouts. A rocket to the face of your tea bagging bragadocious opponent makes up for a lot of respawn screens.... :)
Darth... I miss playing Reach with you and the crew...
I played an H3 team slayer game last year where everyone was a noob. No one picked up the sniper rifles in the Pit - except me... :) That was a fun game...
If they had put as much effort into good matching as they did with stupid crap like infinity ordnance, broken armor abilities, etc., none of this would have been a problem.
I used to laugh at how Reach had all these elaborate "psych profile" matching settings, where you could filter your matching by personality types, chattiness, etc., and yet I could hardly get a game on a decent connection. I actually kept a list for a few days and found that I was matching Mexicans and Columbians about 70% of the games (which is ridiculous since I live in the north east), and they would inevitably be eating bullets and lagging all over the screen the entire time. And H3's "prefer good connection" was a joke because all it did was look for someone with a huge amount of bandwidth, so instead of matching an opponent 100 miles away with low latency, you were actually more likely to match against some guy in Sweden or South Korea with 100MB upload but huge latency because of the distance, so the actual game experience only got worse.
It's like the developers get so excited about all the fancy bells and whistles that they forget to get the basics right first. I guess Bungie thought personality type was more important than a playable connection or fair skill matching.
In this community, I play with all skill levels. I enjoy every second I have with this diverse group.
I love winning and can tolerate losing. Soon we'll have the opportunity to play Halo games with a rich heritage of both competition and fun. I look forward to it, in spite of these fucked up forums.
The only reason you think the forums are fucked up is because they're not 100% supportive 100% of the time.
If I liked a Halo title, then began to hate it because of changes, I might drop one turd but returning again and again to drop more turds, that's just wrong. It's a poisonous social problem.
One man's opinion is another man's turd. I came here, stated that I'm hopeful about the focus of the next Halo's, stated depth makes a game better, tried to understand your opinion, and was met with a literal fuck you. On the upside, it hasn't made my life miserable.
My statement was not derrogatory towards the poster - my disdain was towards Bungie/343 and their changing what has been part of the community and gameplay. That's a tiny tiny thing but no one has ever said "Snapshot" before they made that up for the announcer. Every single everything has said "no scope!" when a non-scoped sniper shot happens. Bungie/343 should apply what the community does and says, not depart from it. Same thing goes with the medals, etc.
Deep, meet internet. Internet, meet Deep.
I think perhaps you're looking for the Bungie forums where other white knights are also quick to defend every aspect of the game and they even lock or delete negative threads. This being a forum for gamers, people are allowed to say what they like. And as you said, if you hate something stay away from it. If you don't like the things Dixon or anyone else is saying, stop reading them.
I have no intention of leaving this forum and may even ask to be moderator again. Sorry to disappoint you and and couple of other people.
Dixon does what he can around here but like me, he's too invested in Halo to be a moderator of these forums. Unfortunately there are very few offering to do the job and even fewer are capable. You're welcome to ask Doodirock for the position. I will give you a great reference.
I dunno, man. I like to think I'm pretty even-handed.