So I've tested this again with a bmw E46, nice solid handling with a little bit of a back endy tune. Pissed it through the streets of France.. :D
10 laps
A550ish car
1-4 the tyres were good, consistant laptimes and easy to manage
5-7 degredation started to come in very quickly, in the space of these 3 laps i went from 65% to 100% around 70-80 i lost about 6 seconds per lap through increased brake distance(!) and reduced cornering speed.
8-10 after pit stop, grip all back to normal.
Observations - The tyres do feel spongy, but you get used to it pretty fast and adjust your driving to suit. I reckon that increasing the rim size will help this to an acceptable level, the actual handling of the car was quite interesting though, it would certainly let me know when i put a foot wrong and tried to be too agressive with the car. You can slide it a little more easily but the recovery is quick if you get the opposite lock on.
In some ways the car felt much more natuaral to drive but i would say that this set up may be very car specific and certainly not for begginers as this really is another dimesion to learn in forza.
The replay of me driving is on my SF - KW: "drag"
I'd like to set up a quick test session to get peoples thoughts an opinions on saturday, anyone interested?
So I've tested this again with a bmw E46, nice solid handling with a little bit of a back endy tune. Pissed it through the streets of France.. :D
10 laps
A550ish car
1-4 the tyres were good, consistant laptimes and easy to manage
5-7 degredation started to come in very quickly, in the space of these 3 laps i went from 65% to 100% around 70-80 i lost about 6 seconds per lap through increased brake distance(!) and reduced cornering speed.
8-10 after pit stop, grip all back to normal.
Observations - The tyres do feel spongy, but you get used to it pretty fast and adjust your driving to suit. I reckon that increasing the rim size will help this to an acceptable level, the actual handling of the car was quite interesting though, it would certainly let me know when i put a foot wrong and tried to be too agressive with the car. You can slide it a little more easily but the recovery is quick if you get the opposite lock on.
In some ways the car felt much more natuaral to drive but i would say that this set up may be very car specific and certainly not for begginers as this really is another dimesion to learn in forza.
The replay of me driving is on my SF - KW: "drag"
I'd like to set up a quick test session to get peoples thoughts an opinions on saturday, anyone interested?
That is what you'd expect from a car though and it brings a real element of realism to the racing. You have to be alot more careful on the brakes and when overtaking, I lost it on silverstone big time because I snatched at the throttle coming out of the corner.
Very interesting - Gizze did find he could drift it with perfection!
That is what you'd expect from a car though and it brings a real element of realism to the racing. You have to be alot more careful on the brakes and when overtaking, I lost it on silverstone big time because I snatched at the throttle coming out of the corner.
Sort of on topic…
My buddy who started Forza earlier in the year (been playing GT5 1.5+ years) made a comment to me recently regarding his apparent lack of speed in Forza and he correctly noted than in the GT5 races when we use lesser tyres he is more competitive because he has pretty damn good throttle control. He does better in those races vs. the GT5 races where we put race slicks on and you can barrel through most turns on or near full throttle.
Bla, bla, bla, it then occurred to me that with Forza (I guess you can’t really include muscle like cars in this generality) the games favors grip vs. speed so most of the cars we end up racing in Forza are super grippy cars where he doesn’t excel at.
I guess my point is that if we’re looking to meet what I quoted from Tourni above we may want to consider the odd car with lesser tyres vs. experimenting with these suspicious drag tyres. You just can't get the realistic tyre degredation with any non-drag compound can you?
And if you really want to drive a car where managing your tyres is a major factor you should purchase GT5 and a PS3 and join us on Thursday evenings…we’ll run some powerful cars with race slicks and you’ll be headed to the pits for a tyre change in 5-8 laps depending on the track length.
That spewed, Parcells loves grip cars so don’t you bastards go overboard trying to run cars that mimic muscle cars.
Parcells the point of this test is that the Drag tyres loose grip far faster that other tyres, which means you don't have to run for hours to loose grip. A 20 lap race will force 1 pitstop atleast :)
I am still looking for people to give their feedback on the BMW, what they do and don't like about it. My favourite point is that you REALLY have to pay attention to what is going on with the car and the track infront of you.
You don't loose massive amounts of grip, instead i think they distribute more for the acceleration, braking forces and less for the cornering.
I'd very much like to see your thoughts on it parcells, perhaps if you are around this weekend we can all run a 10 lapper or more at lemans? or even build your own stuff and have a range of classes hooning about on test?
Parcells the point of this test is that the Drag tyres loose grip far faster that other tyres, which means you don't have to run for hours to loose grip. A 20 lap race will force 1 pitstop atleast :)
I am still looking for people to give their feedback on the BMW, what they do and don't like about it. My favourite point is that you REALLY have to pay attention to what is going on with the car and the track infront of you.
At least one pit. Insanerc and I ran his A669 Pinto around a bunch of tracks in 10 lappers. Maple Valley was the first. After 10 laps his wear was 50%. We noticed that our tyre wear was different. Mine was only 46%. Seeing that we had the same tune we can only guess that it was due to our slightly different driving styles, I'm good and he sucks. J/k. Seriously, that could be an interesting fact. A leveling effect. A speedster who might have to pit more often than a slower more conservative driver (like me). I'm going to run a multi lapper soon to see what happens when you get to 100% wear. I remember with my days at GTPlanet races. At a certain point with their accelerated tyre wear it became almost impossible to continue.
Please send me the BMW tune and I'll run in it. I don't think you are in my garage D2NR's. And it's not on your SF.
UPDATE:
Sunset Pen Speedway R. 50 lapper. Didn't want to finish race without getting to 100% tyre wear. ZiggyProline's A600 Mazda RX7 FD tune. A 575 with the drag tyres. Top speed 170mph due to type of tune. Ran fastest lap of 54.003. Tyres expired on lap 25-26. Still was able to do a 56. xxx on the 100% wear tyres. Hit some damage on lap 29 and didn't want to do the rest of the race. Car was more squirrely as tyres degraded and at 100%. But not noticeably so. You can drive on them. But don't know what control you would have on a technical track like Sedona full. Was cool to be able to see the tyre color of RED on the damage telemetry screen during the race.
As suspected you’re looking for tyre degredation so drag tyre’s is our only option it seems. Was the BMW stock Tourni? If so I’ll give it a whirl with drag tyre’s and report back else gift me the tune please if not stock. Car probably doesn't realy matter does it?
I’ll give it a go around Mugello…I don’t see why I should be punished by having to run 10 laps of LeMans
As suspected you’re looking for tyre degredation so drag tyre’s is our only option it seems. Was the BMW stock Tourni? If so I’ll give it a whirl with drag tyre’s and report back else gift me the tune please if not stock. Car probably doesn't realy matter does it?
I’ll give it a go around Mugello…I don’t see why I should be punished by having to run 10 laps of LeMans
The guilty never do...
Don't these tires require a little more finess entering a corner perhaps than the normal stuff? Seems like you could blow entry through over cooking much easier on these?
tbh - just found the bmw nice to drive with a basic tune on it. Feel free to try any thing and any where you like, i picked leman as it has a good mix of very difficult corners to negotiate and at speed too!
There is some more finesse require, but not a great deal.
Thank you oldmodelt, i noticed you didn't say too many negatives about the handling differences or perhaps the difference in trying to correct a slide?
Is this a type of race you would enjoy doing? I think people will enjoy it, but then anyone who has run my EUSL cars know i'm almost as insane as fitzy.
Thank you oldmodelt, i noticed you didn't say too many negatives about the handling differences or perhaps the difference in trying to correct a slide?
Is this a type of race you would enjoy doing? I think people will enjoy it, but then anyone who has run my EUSL cars know i'm almost as insane as fitzy.
It is. But it might not be for everyone. I tried to do the testing in Insanerc's 669 pinto on Sedona Full Reverse and it was a chore just to keep it on the track. Taking into account that the tuned car had only a 5.4 handling was probably the main factor. The race on Sunset was pretty straight forward. Just very slight adjustments to keep it out of trouble so I wouldn't have to pit. As you know the knock against the sim side of the game is the chance that a race and or paint job could be ruined in a very short time. That's why I tried to do my ALMS with the AI. Nobody to blame but the AI and yourself. But I guess the clan like to bump & grind it more. Shame my RL schedule doesn't allow me to get into the EUSL or similar (pun intended) races. Please send me any FR from those guys who do run them and if I happen to get on I will pop in if that's ok. Can I pick up the tunes/paints anyway?
Thanks OldmodelT, I share similar thoughts on the driving and feel of the car.
I actually think the tyre grip is more realistic in most cases, by that i mean the straightline grip appears to be better.
You are probably correct. All I have to compare it with is my two mini vans that I drive in RL. They aren't in the same PI class as many of our fantasy vehicles.
Last night while running around the tracks I got to thinking (always a dangerous proposition for me). When I had switched over to Drag Tyres I didn't remember to adjust the tyre pressure on the drag ones. They are at default 30PSI. Am going to change all my tyres to what the tuners had done for each car. Don't know if this is correct? Any advice is welcome.
You might want to firm them up a little more since they're supposedly softer sidewalls. Ultimately that might wind up wearing the tire out faster though, so you might want to do some testing. I know on short runs I have had better luck with higher pressures due to the sidewall flex.
This comes from a couple of series with my old group where we raced on drag tires for mini-enduro events.
Ah yes - It does work but i was running cars with a 35 or lower profile tyre which did give that extra responsiveness :)
I'm working on 3 cars at the moment and they are fantastic fun to drive, the drag tyres really bring a good race element to them. Stay tuned for a little enduro race with lots of noise and some proper oldschool action :D
Ah yes - It does work but i was running cars with a 35 or lower profile tyre which did give that extra responsiveness :)
I'm working on 3 cars at the moment and they are fantastic fun to drive, the drag tyres really bring a good race element to them. Stay tuned for a little enduro race with lots of noise and some proper oldschool action :D
Tourni, what class will the cars be? Do you have tunes yet?
Not sure Snappy - i tried it on A class so far. I'll keep messing about untill i figure out what is going on :)
So I've tested this again with a bmw E46, nice solid handling with a little bit of a back endy tune. Pissed it through the streets of France.. :D
10 laps
A550ish car
1-4 the tyres were good, consistant laptimes and easy to manage
5-7 degredation started to come in very quickly, in the space of these 3 laps i went from 65% to 100% around 70-80 i lost about 6 seconds per lap through increased brake distance(!) and reduced cornering speed.
8-10 after pit stop, grip all back to normal.
Observations - The tyres do feel spongy, but you get used to it pretty fast and adjust your driving to suit. I reckon that increasing the rim size will help this to an acceptable level, the actual handling of the car was quite interesting though, it would certainly let me know when i put a foot wrong and tried to be too agressive with the car. You can slide it a little more easily but the recovery is quick if you get the opposite lock on.
In some ways the car felt much more natuaral to drive but i would say that this set up may be very car specific and certainly not for begginers as this really is another dimesion to learn in forza.
The replay of me driving is on my SF - KW: "drag"
I'd like to set up a quick test session to get peoples thoughts an opinions on saturday, anyone interested?
Can you put it in the club garage?
Sure stick it in the garage and I'll run till my interwebs crap out, would love to see some race stratagy thrown into the mix.
I popped it in the club garage last night - If you are going to run it, remember to do it with sim dam.
Will have a bash with it tonight
Cheers Church, i'm gonna build some others to get a fairer idea.
Built a XKR last night, with no tune and it was pretty good for that amount of torque. With a decent tune, these cars would be a blast.
The BMW was fun.
although it was very unforgiving if you pushed it 2 hard
That is what you'd expect from a car though and it brings a real element of realism to the racing. You have to be alot more careful on the brakes and when overtaking, I lost it on silverstone big time because I snatched at the throttle coming out of the corner.
Very interesting - Gizze did find he could drift it with perfection!
Sort of on topic…
My buddy who started Forza earlier in the year (been playing GT5 1.5+ years) made a comment to me recently regarding his apparent lack of speed in Forza and he correctly noted than in the GT5 races when we use lesser tyres he is more competitive because he has pretty damn good throttle control. He does better in those races vs. the GT5 races where we put race slicks on and you can barrel through most turns on or near full throttle.
Bla, bla, bla, it then occurred to me that with Forza (I guess you can’t really include muscle like cars in this generality) the games favors grip vs. speed so most of the cars we end up racing in Forza are super grippy cars where he doesn’t excel at.
I guess my point is that if we’re looking to meet what I quoted from Tourni above we may want to consider the odd car with lesser tyres vs. experimenting with these suspicious drag tyres. You just can't get the realistic tyre degredation with any non-drag compound can you?
And if you really want to drive a car where managing your tyres is a major factor you should purchase GT5 and a PS3 and join us on Thursday evenings…we’ll run some powerful cars with race slicks and you’ll be headed to the pits for a tyre change in 5-8 laps depending on the track length.
That spewed, Parcells loves grip cars so don’t you bastards go overboard trying to run cars that mimic muscle cars.
well not perfection but it was fun
i dunno about that gizzie, you did some pretty awesome drifts!
I thought Tourni favored loose ass cars already? ( Nissan...).gif "80")
(BMW...).gif "80")
(ETC...)
Parcells the point of this test is that the Drag tyres loose grip far faster that other tyres, which means you don't have to run for hours to loose grip. A 20 lap race will force 1 pitstop atleast :)
I am still looking for people to give their feedback on the BMW, what they do and don't like about it. My favourite point is that you REALLY have to pay attention to what is going on with the car and the track infront of you.
You don't loose massive amounts of grip, instead i think they distribute more for the acceleration, braking forces and less for the cornering.
I'd very much like to see your thoughts on it parcells, perhaps if you are around this weekend we can all run a 10 lapper or more at lemans? or even build your own stuff and have a range of classes hooning about on test?
At least one pit. Insanerc and I ran his A669 Pinto around a bunch of tracks in 10 lappers. Maple Valley was the first. After 10 laps his wear was 50%. We noticed that our tyre wear was different. Mine was only 46%. Seeing that we had the same tune we can only guess that it was due to our slightly different driving styles, I'm good and he sucks. J/k. Seriously, that could be an interesting fact. A leveling effect. A speedster who might have to pit more often than a slower more conservative driver (like me). I'm going to run a multi lapper soon to see what happens when you get to 100% wear. I remember with my days at GTPlanet races. At a certain point with their accelerated tyre wear it became almost impossible to continue.
Please send me the BMW tune and I'll run in it. I don't think you are in my garage D2NR's. And it's not on your SF.
UPDATE:
Sunset Pen Speedway R. 50 lapper. Didn't want to finish race without getting to 100% tyre wear. ZiggyProline's A600 Mazda RX7 FD tune. A 575 with the drag tyres. Top speed 170mph due to type of tune. Ran fastest lap of 54.003. Tyres expired on lap 25-26. Still was able to do a 56. xxx on the 100% wear tyres. Hit some damage on lap 29 and didn't want to do the rest of the race. Car was more squirrely as tyres degraded and at 100%. But not noticeably so. You can drive on them. But don't know what control you would have on a technical track like Sedona full. Was cool to be able to see the tyre color of RED on the damage telemetry screen during the race.
As suspected you’re looking for tyre degredation so drag tyre’s is our only option it seems. Was the BMW stock Tourni? If so I’ll give it a whirl with drag tyre’s and report back else gift me the tune please if not stock. Car probably doesn't realy matter does it?
I’ll give it a go around Mugello…I don’t see why I should be punished by having to run 10 laps of LeMans
The guilty never do...
Don't these tires require a little more finess entering a corner perhaps than the normal stuff? Seems like you could blow entry through over cooking much easier on these?
Need to try it at Lemans.
Also once you get a feel for the car it becomes pretty easy to drive.
It does keep you on your toes though.
tbh - just found the bmw nice to drive with a basic tune on it. Feel free to try any thing and any where you like, i picked leman as it has a good mix of very difficult corners to negotiate and at speed too!
There is some more finesse require, but not a great deal.
Red tyres
Might have a play with my 370z tune as I found it ok on R/A
Thank you oldmodelt, i noticed you didn't say too many negatives about the handling differences or perhaps the difference in trying to correct a slide?
Is this a type of race you would enjoy doing? I think people will enjoy it, but then anyone who has run my EUSL cars know i'm almost as insane as fitzy.
It is. But it might not be for everyone. I tried to do the testing in Insanerc's 669 pinto on Sedona Full Reverse and it was a chore just to keep it on the track. Taking into account that the tuned car had only a 5.4 handling was probably the main factor. The race on Sunset was pretty straight forward. Just very slight adjustments to keep it out of trouble so I wouldn't have to pit. As you know the knock against the sim side of the game is the chance that a race and or paint job could be ruined in a very short time. That's why I tried to do my ALMS with the AI. Nobody to blame but the AI and yourself. But I guess the clan like to bump & grind it more. Shame my RL schedule doesn't allow me to get into the EUSL or similar (pun intended) races. Please send me any FR from those guys who do run them and if I happen to get on I will pop in if that's ok. Can I pick up the tunes/paints anyway?
Thanks OldmodelT, I share similar thoughts on the driving and feel of the car.
I actually think the tyre grip is more realistic in most cases, by that i mean the straightline grip appears to be better.
You are probably correct. All I have to compare it with is my two mini vans that I drive in RL. They aren't in the same PI class as many of our fantasy vehicles.
Last night while running around the tracks I got to thinking (always a dangerous proposition for me). When I had switched over to Drag Tyres I didn't remember to adjust the tyre pressure on the drag ones.
They are at default 30PSI. Am going to change all my tyres to what the tuners had done for each car. Don't know if this is correct? Any advice is welcome.
You might want to firm them up a little more since they're supposedly softer sidewalls. Ultimately that might wind up wearing the tire out faster though, so you might want to do some testing. I know on short runs I have had better luck with higher pressures due to the sidewall flex.
This comes from a couple of series with my old group where we raced on drag tires for mini-enduro events.
Ah yes - It does work but i was running cars with a 35 or lower profile tyre which did give that extra responsiveness :)
I'm working on 3 cars at the moment and they are fantastic fun to drive, the drag tyres really bring a good race element to them. Stay tuned for a little enduro race with lots of noise and some proper oldschool action :D