I guess we're going to need stronger knife laws

He was able to get around to do it 12 times?!  I'd have to hear each scenario cause I would think someone would have seen or the person would have screamed or something you could have at least grabbed a chair to throw at him and slow him down or something... Someone paint this picture for me.

please keep the political posts to a minimum. I am willing to let this ride for a little bit, but the over and under on having this thread locked is around 3 pages.

This isn't political. It isn't a Dem/Repub issue, although they've latched on to it. It's a  constitutional right to not infringe on one's ability to defend one's self.

This IS crossing political lines which is why it's not flying through the Senate on golden wings.

That said., if you post a sign saying no one here can defend themselves, where will the predators go to do harm? Gun violence in the UK is way below the U.S....but violence itself per capita in the UK exceeds violence per capita in the U.S., and pay attention, that's including guns on both shores...

The insertion of all the new laws I've seen proposed across the country will make it harder for the poorer/less affluent to buy  protection for themselves. And when they can't get those passed, they fall back on taxing instead, again to raise cost to further remove affordable protection from those truly needing it most. Everytime I see the Government tax something that does harm instead of stopping it, I see politicians wanting money, nothing more.

Man is a violent animal, read your history books.

EDIT: Please realize there is no one shouting on this end. I know text is hard to sense attitude. I'm well past the shouting, spittle running down the chin thing. I have however lost just about all faith in government in general, no matter which side of the aisle they perch.

I firmly believe in the right to own a weapon but I'm on the fence about the ease of obtaining an assault rifle. Maybe it's because I grew up so close to Sandy Hook and know many people who were devastated by the use of such a weapon. 

I'm not going to spew the pro-gun or anti-gun lines that we've all heard a billion times. But the combined death toll from this incident and the one in China on December 14 is zero. Two stabbing sprees = 27 less fatalities than one shooting spree.

If a responsible law-abiding person wants to own a gun, I'm all for it. Just keep that thing locked up and away from criminals and/or the violent mentally ill.

note to everyone. The above 2 posts (JP and OldSchool) are great examples of how to post on a hot topic (political) post and NOT get the thread locked.

Well done. :)

Lbsutke, you're gonna ruin my rep man...but thanks.

Honestly, all of these situations involve pretty much one common element, and it's not the weapon used, it's the lunatic behind them. I attended my first "gun show" just this last weekend and I talked to a lot of very nice people, arguably some from quite different backgrounds and points of view than my own, but I had a great time and never once felt uncomfortable. Now, while I've never been to a gun show, I grew up with guns in the house, there was never any mystery or curiousity about them, they were a tool with specific purpose and use. I have seen too many talk about these guns who truly just don't know what they're speaking about, many who've never seen or held one.

These assault rifles, the vast majority, aren't anything more than a semi-auto hand gun with an extended barrel and a bunch of accessories that make them look "cooler", and more like the ones in the movies. I was amazed at how affordable they were, and not cheap ones, but well established name branded pieces. Cheaper than a comparable handgun in many instances. But they're small caliber, semi-automatic, same as some hunting guns I'm quite familiar with, just dressed up to look more like a military piece, which they simply aren't.

Unless you think the military style sights cooler, the pistol grips cooler, the extendable stocks cooler, the heat sheild on the barrels cooler (hmm, that might literally be cooler I guess). But to ban a weapon because you can adjust the stock to fit? And a pistol grips really only of use if you have a fully auto weapon, these aren't. Clip/magazine size is debatable. I've never heard anyone claim they had too much amunition after defending themselves. Magazines today are freakishly easy to change out, fast too. So two 30 round clips or six 10 round, I don't think is a critical point.

Truthfully, I wouldn't want one for self defense, definately not in the home. They're a toy for the shooting range, and for others to look at and compare to their own, and I think that's most of their allure. Small caliber, one shot per squeeze, fun for target shooting. I suppose you could hunt rabbit with it, but I can do just as well with a 22 lever action rifle, so why bother?

A nutcase on a school campus where you aren't allowed to carry self defense weapons, populated by young people who mostly have a fresh optimistic view of people and the world is ripe for mayhem by someone with a knife and the intent to do harm. Clearly someone like that isn't balanced, I mean, what was his plan to get away? Was he going to kill everyone on campus? From what I've read so far, and it's early, he was getting off on trying to kill, and he doesn't seem to care about "after". Yes, any gun makes it easier to kill. And here, any gun probably would have made it easier to stop him. So would a baseball bat I'm guessing. The attacker almost always has the advantage of picking the time, place and target. Given that, you can kill with a bowling ball.

I don't have a problem with background checks, I bought a weapon at this gun show, and (shock n awe) they did a background check. However I don't like any talk of compiling a list or data on the people buying. YOu can't regulate a back room deal, so quit trying, thats spinning your wheels. Fully automatic weapons are already so well regulated and licensed they aren't even part of the discussion I do feel the increased proposed regulation will make it harder for the common man to protect his home and family while not appreciably doing anything to prevent instances like those that have already occurred from happening again.

The truth is, the Pandoras box that is guns has been opened, You can't put them back in and close the box. So educate, take the mystery and allure away.

I apologize for the rambling, it's a big subject and should be discussed more coherently.

I like a lot of the points everyone is bringing up. I think it is reasonable to agree that the weapons did not load themselves and jump out of a gun vault and shoot themselves. People are the issue. The human race is flawed, period.

My concern when I hear the rallying cry that we have a "right" to own weapons is that people do not take in consideration technology and the progression of technology. Think how far weapon technology has come since WW II. Yes repeating riffles was nothing new, but since then things have advanced to lighter, faster, stronger AND easily more accessable. Easily is debatable and maybe my ingnorance on that from state to state is part of it. But I am assuming if I have a clear record and I pass a back ground check I can purchase an AR-15 with all the goodies with very little trouble over a month. Which is fine because I have zero desire to go out and commit mass murder. But who really knows that. Even to that point I could be fine at the time of my purchase of a weapon, but say 10 years down the line I could have an brain injury that I recover from, but mentally I now am thinking about taking out a 2nd grade class with my AR-15 and 3 30 round magazines.

Could I also do the same thing with with a trip to the local hardware store or sports store with fillet knives,propane tanks and drywall screws, absolutely. I just wish people could be more flexible and more concerned with others or the harm that could be done if checks and balances are not in place.

Not saying anyone here is like that, but unfortunately that is my impression on some groups that are pro and against these things.

Touching on the technology thing, I watched the below video and it is now possible to make an ar-15 receiver using a 3d printer. For people not able to watch it, this person is able to rent a 3d printer and through trial and error come up with the correct resin/compound/mix of products to successfully create a receiver. Initial tests he is only able to get about a hundred rounds through before the receiver fails. At the end the video, they announce their most recent trials and they are able to get through 600 rounds before the receiver fails. He also has started a website to make the cad drawings available for free for anyone to dl. So what happens in 25-50 years when the next evolution of materials/balistics comes around, maybe laser weapons will be accessable to the public just like ar-15 style weapons are now. Should we still be able to fall back on the second ammendment saying we have the right to own a gun, regardless of the fact I vaporize them in one shot.

I wish I had the answers and I wish we could tell when someone is no longer mentally capable to distinguish that killing for fun is wrong. Maybe technology will get us there as well, I just hope it gets us there before I can buy a weapon to vaporize buildings.

Yes I am being a little extreme, but I think we get my point

Anyway here is the video.

http://youtu.be/DconsfGsXyA

Rascal83 wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/09/at-least-5-reportedly-stabbed-on-lone-star-college-campus/

I'll start by saying that I do feel bad for victims of any violent crime.

Now that that's out of the way...  Hands up if you think this proves that just because you outlaw guns it doesn't mean people won't be hurt or killed by other people.  I can't wait for the liberal masses to sink their teeth into this and start crying for stronger legislature against knives.  How long until Obama makes people register their cutlery?  BREAKING NEWS:  MAN FOUND WITH SPORK HIDDEN IN GLOVE BOX. 

and lets pull it back a bit people.

So far we have been pretty level headed...Lets just take a deep breath.

People? Don't you pluralize me, sir!

" I guess we're going to need stronger knife laws" 

Wow I'm a amazed this thread hasn't shut down? Where's Deman? Zikan? Lets lite this mother up! 

LOL Jk... LB

When I read this news segment I knew somebody pro-gun was going to come up with a pun or something, but I kept thinking too myself maybe not. Why? Because you can't argue about this. Nobody died. What would have happened if this lunatic had a gun? Would have someone had the balls to tackle him if he had an AR-15? Fuck No. 

What about these news? 

4 year old shoots 6 year old

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/09/us/new-jersey-child-shooting/index.html

4 year old shoots deputy's wife?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/09/child-shooting-depu...

Please understand I aint anti-gun or anyhting, I just think this is a bad argument. 

By the way, LB, I've always wondered...what you are drinking in that profile pic. The drink is enormous and your expression is particularly devilish.

It is called a scorpion (pdf warning on that link). It had multiple types of rums and they light the center on fire when it gets to the table. That was my second one for the night...

The menu listed it as a "Scorpion for Two"...and that was your second of the night? Well done, sir!

Great discussion all around.  I'm all for responsible firearm ownership: I'm a rarity in Canada in that I grew up around handguns and spent many weekends at the firing range with my grandfather.  I was taught a healthy respect for firearms at a young age, and I realize that guns to don't load and point themselves.

That said, LB brought an excellent point about technology.  When the US Constitution was written, there were no bolt action rifles or semi-automatic firearms.  Firearms may only be a tool, but it's tool that wields that scares me.  Magazine capacities and restrictions on fully automatic settings are *completely* legitmate concerns in an urban setting, as demonstrated by events such as Sandy Hook.  On the flipside, knifing incidents like that in Texas demonstrate that crazies will find a way to cause harm no matter what. 

I just think that a reasonable and respectful discussion can be had about how to limit the scope of such incidents.  Perhaps I missed the part where the knifing suspect killed and/or wounded as many as the movie theatre gunman or Sandy Hook shooter.  No? I didn't?  Ahh, there's the point I like to make: scope of injury.

It's pointless to try and outright ban guns for all the reasons people state, such as criminals will still get them and people that want to hurt others will always find a way.  You can't prevent all harm that could ever happen to everyone, and I think as a society (all of north America) we try to hard to shield ourselves from all harm that could or might happen.  People are so willing to give up freedom for the illusion of security that sometimes I think they miss the point.  You can't prevent all harm, but reasonable, sensible regulations can limit the amount of harm that can be caused when shit goes off the rails.

Full disclosure: I'd love to own a Stoner SR25.  No particular reason, really, except that I grew fond of the M16 frame while I was in the reserves, and if I could one a rifle that'd be the one.  That, or one I design myself. 

Another point that could be made is that knives are already regulated more closely than firearms. In Texas, a person may not carry a knife with a blade longer than 6 1/2". Knives that open automatically, i.e. push button switchblades, can only legally be carried by law enforcement personnel.

Good discussion, I'll add a few observations that hopefully don't come across terse.

I'll use LB's statement as an example only and not to "pick" on him.  A few posts ago he stated "People are the issue. The human race is flawed. Period"  This is a statement that is often thrown out but rarely elaborated on.  Similarly, you'll see a blog or article with the phrase "Guns don't kill people, People kill people".  All true.  But what you get is a 1 sentence tip of the hat to how bad people are and then 64 pages about addressing a symptom of that deficiency.  Maybe it's time to stop talking so much about gun violence and various other social ills and start talking more about the idea that just gets the hat tip.  Why is the human race flawed?  How or can it be repaired? How do we then live in light of those conversations?

The second thought I've had recently is that I agree to an extent that the Founders had no inkling of what would be available 200 years down the line.  Surely there is room for some restriction, after all we don't all need handgrenades and missle launchers.  However, isn't the proper way to go about this ammending the Constitution?  If a new issue has come up due to change in cultural norms or technology that was not addressed or applicable to the time of the writing, what's wrong with making a change?  The problem we have now is that political grandstanders would rather make headlines than follow the rules they were given.  It's ok to ask to change the rule book but until then you have to stick to it.

Lastly, something I put on FB a few days ago but I'll repeat here.  Imagine if we started asking for the same types of restrictions on our other Constitutionaly guaranteed freedoms as we do Gun Rights?  Again, I think this might speak more to the need to make an ammendment if that's where the will of the people is at.

On a side note, last night I turned on Malcolm in the Middle on Netflix during my infant's 3 AM feeding. In the episode, Dewey was accidentally placed in the special needs class where it was suggested that his classmates were emotionally disturbed. They weren't allowed to use pencils or scissors or even paper (they were doing origami with tissues) because of the potential for injuries/violence. 

It's just a silly show, but I thought it was especially fitting in the context of this thread. 

Good question Biggie!

I personally meant by the human race is flawed is that the ability to choose right and wrong can be too easily comprimised.  Once a small chemical imbalance or synapse snafu and someone loses the ability to understand that loading a weapon, walking up to someone and pulling the trigger is bad.

This can happen at birth, after an accident, self induced chemical overdose, cancerous growth or whatever. 

Someone could have the perfect (and by that I mean no abuse, loving parents, zero tramma, etc.) upbringing, show zero signs of aggression then one day have a vehicle accident, be involved in some mentally tramatic event (war, witness to a horrible event, had a horrible event happen to them) and the mind goes out of balance. If that person has access to weapons with the ability to do a lot of harm quickly and easily, then it is a mix for disaster.

The scariest thing is that unless that person has expressed feelings of wanting to do harm to others, this could go undetected for years until one day they snap or just act on those impulses.

No background check is going to pick that up. My understanding the checks only look for previous felonies or law violations that would prohibit them from obtaining weapons legally. I believe some states do check mental history records, but again that is only assuming their IS a history amd my knowledge of all the gun laws is limited at best.

The argument of "Well they could just take someone out with x instead of a gun" is valid in its literal definition, I mean I could buy some paracord off of ebay and choke someone out with it. But if I am going for maximum damage I am going to pick the easiest item, that I can get to do the most damage. Being mentally deviant does not mean you do not have intelligence or lose the ability of thought and planning.

The human brain is extremely complex and with that easily thrown out of wack and with that the ability to roll into X shop or do a 20 minute order on the web and then have a military style weapon sent to me with as much ammo as I can load and carry in 4-6 weeks a scary ass scenerio.

LB but why when someone snaps he must go on a shooting spree? Why not drive their car off a cliff, jump off a bridge, jump in shark infested waters, or blow themselves and a credit card building up with a bomb, you can easily make a bomb from a few items from the Home Depot, Palanhiuk taught us that. 

Why is the fantasy always to shoot tons fo people in a public place? 

Mall Shooting

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/12/new-river-valley-mall-shooting_...

great question Ek. I have no idea and I think it is hard for anyone to really know why. That is also part of the problem, no two issues are the same. You can recognize some of the symptoms but it does not give a definitive answer.