I hope Doodirock can come up with a unique solution. I'm not interested in Google+ or Facebook type of solutions. If the site becomes more mobile friendly, what more can be done? People's posting will ebb and flow anyway. Right now, Twitter is this big mess of 128 character crap of cutesy or flaming junk.
I don't know, maybe this new social stuff makes sense somehow and I'm just not getting it. Or possibly I see the death of it before I get involved.
I hope Doodirock can come up with a unique solution. I'm not interested in Google+ or Facebook type of solutions. If the site becomes more mobile friendly, what more can be done? People's posting will ebb and flow anyway. Right now, Twitter is this big mess of 128 character crap of cutesy or flaming junk.
I don't know, maybe this new social stuff makes sense somehow and I'm just not getting it. Or possibly I see the death of it before I get involved.
I hear you Deep. I'm not crazy about Google+ or other options. And I'll never understand Twitter. I also understand what you're saying about the ebb and flow. I get that gaming has sucked in the last year or so and understand why people weren't interested. Right now we are looking at the release of 2 major consoles. If anything, the activity and interest here should be higher.
That's assuming everyong didn't take their ball elsewhere. Which seems to be the case.
Twitter, google+ and other mobile options make a lot more sense then web forums. At the very least 2old2play needs to make taptalk available, that woulf be a great start imo
Umm, unofficially speaking for the racing guys, we need large pages with lottsa type available as we post applicable car groups, builds permitted per car per group, race results per race, race results per series...etc. etc....
...that said, I do think the lull on the new boxes is part of it and Forza's long in the tooth too but we're pretty active.
Help! I'm an old man, I'm stuck in my comfortable rut, and I'm scared of social media. If we make changes to the site that makes it more user friendly and easier to navigate, then we'll have a bunch of new people in here yakking away like they own the place and getting where they want to go easily. They will have no respect for tenure or hierarchy...they'll just jump right in with both feet and all of the old timers will be pushed out into the cold with nothing to eat but dogfood and government cheese. #HashtagMadness #HanShotFirst #JonesWasHere
Where exactly are these new folk going to come from? You can't exactly call me a social media Luddite, I have G+, Twitter, Farcebook, Myspace and Youtube accounts. But most of my online time is spent in forums. This one is in the doldrums...But how much of that is down to the long wait for new platforms and games? Look at any post about the new box and despite the fact there is feck all to talk about...people talk about it. There is nothing left to say about the 360 and the PS3. The games are long in the tooth to a large degree. The forum as I have often said lets threads get too personal and the same battles are fought out by the same people week in week out, that does us no favors.
I have been asking to get my admin rights for months, just to tidy up the PC Racing division. It's a mess of old threads, off topic posts etc. Have I got them? Have I hell. Don't know how many other forum and division admins are in the same boat, but it all adds up to a messy forum.
There is a danger of throwing the baby out with the bath water. I await to see what the changes actually amount to, to be fair we know fuck all. But that doesn't tend to stop most of us having an opinion LOL
Where exactly are these new folk going to come from?
We have new folks joining all the time, that's not the problem. The fact that we don't retain them is the problem. I'm all for facelifting the site if folks can get around easier and not have to deal with closed groups and a brick wall of hierarchy...I think my chances of picking up on the redesign are pretty good and if we can keep our new recruits then sign my happy ass up.
For the people that already moved to Twitter or G+ there really is nothing we CAN do. They have made the choice to take a convo else where and I see no reason to try and convince them other wise. In fact, the changes to the site really wont be for the old school people at 2o2p. Those people already have their opinions on how the site should run etc and since I've allowed those opinions to drive a lot of the direction of 2o2p I'd say they haven't served the community very well. Instead I'd rather just make sure the old school members have a better overall experience on the site. That is a lot easier to do.
The reality is this... The ones that stood by clan forums, private areas, and a closed system have either A) got big and left to build something on their own or B) closed off so much that they contribute nothing to being an older gaming community and move to other forms of communication off the site anyway. This isn't bad mouthing those people. Keep in mind this happened to my own clan and some of my best friends. Now I'm sure we can debate this until the end of time, but the facts are pretty much in and a closed system kills this place. The AIM of the new site will be to end all that.
In terms of the model we're going after, it will look a lot more like what 2old4forza and PC Racing has done. Closed off clans can probably get exactly what they already have in a million other places on the internet and dont really need us anymore. Member traffic is currently the lowest portion of traffic on 2o2p and accounts for only 30% while traffic for shows, reviews, and articles is around 70%. Compare that to 3 years ago when outside traffic was 20% and members were 80% and you start to see how well the model of closed forums has served us. In the past we filled these draining ranks up by PR efforts on other sites and communities. This may have worked for a while, but its not something I'm interested in trying to sustain. I don't have time in my day anymore to try in get on the front page of Reddit, digg, Wall Street Journal, etc only to lose the influx of new members in 4 months time. I simply want a place for gamers to meet other older members to talk about video games.
Now I'm not going to commit to any specifics here since its just way to early to tell, but I can at least share my goals. The AIM is this...
1) Less to navigate
2) Easier to sign up (ask for less info)
3) Mobile mobile mobile
4) Focus more on group interests and not groups of people.
5) Easier to actually find gamers (not gaming clans)
6) More events based gaming
7) More focus on our writers, players, and content creators
8) Open up the forums completely
9) Minimize moderation
10) Clean up the look and feel and up the readability
As Derek and I have always said, 2o2p is something we do for fun. We've spent upwards of 5 figures on the site because its a passion and hobby. There is and never will be any goal of monetary gain here (there's no money in owning a gaming site). We currently take in $40 a month for donations and thats just fine. I'll keep the doors on for as long as I love this hobbie. For the people that stick around, great! However for those that don't, just keep in mind that 2o2p will always be a place for you and while I'm sad we dont agree on the direction here, I have to do what I think is fun and exciting for 2o2p. I see sites like Geezer Gamers all but closing down, and other sites following and it breaks my heart. Love them or hate them they create communities and friendships that last lifetimes. I'd hate to see that end for us as well.
As Derek and I have always said, 2o2p is something we do for fun. We've spent upwards of 5 figures on the site because its a passion and hobby. There is and never will be any goal of monetary gain here (there's no money in owning a gaming site). We currently take in $40 a month for donations and thats just fine. I'll keep the doors on for as long as I love this hobbie. For the people that stick around, great! However for those that don't, just keep in mind that 2o2p will always be a place for you and while I'm sad we dont agree on the direction here, I have to do what I think is fun and exciting for 2o2p. I see sites like Geezer Gamers all but closing down, and other sites following and it breaks my heart. Love them or hate them they create communities and friendships that last lifetimes. I'd hate to see that end for us as well.
Great post Doodi, I almost cried
I've met some great people on this site and unfortunately very few of them still come here regularly. The website is a great landing point for people. My concern for clans etc that spin out on their own is that there will be no new blood that comes from having a site like 2o2p. The diversity of people is what I love.
I think a model like google+ would work well. People can organise themselves into groups based on interests but everything is open to everyone. The ability to easily post multimedia is a must especially with gameplay recording on the way. I get a multikill in Battlefield 4, instantly post to 2old2play to brag to all my mates who can then comment on how awesome I am.
For the people that already moved to Twitter or G+ there really is nothing we CAN do. They have made the choice to take a convo else where and I see no reason to try and convince them other wise. In fact, the changes to the site really wont be for the old school people at 2o2p. Those people already have their opinions on how the site should run etc and since I've allowed those opinions to drive a lot of the direction of 2o2p I'd say they haven't served the community very well. Instead I'd rather just make sure the old school members have a better overall experience on the site. That is a lot easier to do.
The reality is this... The ones that stood by clan forums, private areas, and a closed system have either A) got big and left to build something on their own or B) closed off so much that they contribute nothing to being an older gaming community and move to other forms of communication off the site anyway. This isn't bad mouthing those people. Keep in mind this happened to my own clan and some of my best friends. Now I'm sure we can debate this until the end of time, but the facts are pretty much in and a closed system kills this place. The AIM of the new site will be to end all that.
In terms of the model we're going after, it will look a lot more like what 2old4forza and PC Racing has done. Closed off clans can probably get exactly what they already have in a million other places on the internet and dont really need us anymore. Member traffic is currently the lowest portion of traffic on 2o2p and accounts for only 30% while traffic for shows, reviews, and articles is around 70%. Compare that to 3 years ago when outside traffic was 20% and members were 80% and you start to see how well the model of closed forums has served us. In the past we filled these draining ranks up by PR efforts on other sites and communities. This may have worked for a while, but its not something I'm interested in trying to sustain. I don't have time in my day anymore to try in get on the front page of Reddit, digg, Wall Street Journal, etc only to lose the influx of new members in 4 months time. I simply want a place for gamers to meet other older members to talk about video games.
Now I'm not going to commit to any specifics here since its just way to early to tell, but I can at least share my goals. The AIM is this...
1) Less to navigate
2) Easier to sign up (ask for less info)
3) Mobile mobile mobile
4) Focus more on group interests and not groups of people.
5) Easier to actually find gamers (not gaming clans)
6) More events based gaming
7) More focus on our writers, players, and content creators
8) Open up the forums completely
9) Minimize moderation
10) Clean up the look and feel and up the readability
As Derek and I have always said, 2o2p is something we do for fun. We've spent upwards of 5 figures on the site because its a passion and hobby. There is and never will be any goal of monetary gain here (there's no money in owning a gaming site). We currently take in $40 a month for donations and thats just fine. I'll keep the doors on for as long as I love this hobbie. For the people that stick around, great! However for those that don't, just keep in mind that 2o2p will always be a place for you and while I'm sad we dont agree on the direction here, I have to do what I think is fun and exciting for 2o2p. I see sites like Geezer Gamers all but closing down, and other sites following and it breaks my heart. Love them or hate them they create communities and friendships that last lifetimes. I'd hate to see that end for us as well.
Doodi, I think you have a lot of good points in here, but I also have a concern. You're defining what the community needs, but you're not all that involved in the community itself. We see a post here or there from you, but when was the last time you've gamed with the community? If I remember right, you're mostly PC now, and that's a small fragment of the group. And Derek rarely posts unless it's about one of the shows. I know you guys are busy, and I respect that, but I also feel the lack of interaction with the leadership here at 2o2p in general chatter isn't helping one bit. I also believe you guys shouldn't be the only ones to shoulder that load...the leadership here needs to grow as well. Right now, there are few mods left to do anything about the discourse here on the site, which isn't helping keep people around any. Look at how the off topic threads keep devolving...it's not helping with the image of the site one bit.
I think leadership here needs to be more involved in the community before we start overhauling the community, and that the leadership needs to be expanded to accomodate any overhauling that happens.
Doodi, I think you have a lot of good points in here, but I also have a concern. You're defining what the community needs, but you're not all that involved in the community itself. We see a post here or there from you, but when was the last time you've gamed with the community? If I remember right, you're mostly PC now, and that's a small fragment of the group. And Derek rarely posts unless it's about one of the shows. I know you guys are busy, and I respect that, but I also feel the lack of interaction with the leadership here at 2o2p in general chatter isn't helping one bit. I also believe you guys shouldn't be the only ones to shoulder that load...the leadership here needs to grow as well. Right now, there are few mods left to do anything about the discourse here on the site, which isn't helping keep people around any. Look at how the off topic threads keep devolving...it's not helping with the image of the site one bit.
I think leadership here needs to be more involved in the community before we start overhauling the community, and that the leadership needs to be expanded to accommodate any overhauling that happens.
I think this is a very fair point and in a perfect world I'd do a lot more with the community. However with how much responsibility I have at my day job + after hours I'm left with little if any time to do fun things like game. My days look like this now...
1) Get out of work around 6pm (5:30 if I'm lucky)
2) Is it Monday? Cool do a show until 7:30 PM
3) Not a Monday? Great work on 2old2play or 3 of the current freelance projects I have going.
4) Is it a Wed? Sweet only day to spend with the lady and still spend that on a couch coding
5) Oh its a Thur? Do a show until 8:40pm.
6) Not a Monday or Thur? Play games with friends from 8-11pm. Sleep?
7) None of the above? Work on client projects or over due development issues at work.
The sad fact is, I've carved out 2 hours on Tue and Thur to game. Within those two hours I really want to spend the time playing a game I love with the friends I love. Just like everyone else on this site. When I'm not doing those things I need to be either working on 2o2p, creating 2o2p content, working on off work client projects, or working on work related project. Some how in all this I need to actually keep the GF happy and sleep.
This was all a lot easier when I was just freelance, but since I've taken a larger roll at a big company I haven't really had that kind of time. As I said, 2o2p is a hobby and as a hobby it gets almost any and all my extra attention (probably too much). With that means a lot less time actually doing the thing I love... gaming. D has a similar issue, but add on top of that kids. I'd love nothing more then to carve out some more time for the fun sides of the site. Maybe in a few months that will be easier when I'm done with a lot of this client work, but for now its hard enough just to get a show together with LB and Hitman.
I think this is a very fair point and in a perfect world I'd do a lot more with the community. However with how much responsibility I have at my day job + after hours I'm left with little if any time to do fun things like game. My days look like this now...
1) Get out of work around 6pm (5:30 if I'm lucky)
2) Is it Monday? Cool do a show until 7:30 PM
3) Not a Monday? Great work on 2old2play or 3 of the current freelance projects I have going.
4) Is it a Wed? Sweet only day to spend with the lady and still spend that on a couch coding
5) Oh its a Thur? Do a show until 8:40pm.
6) Not a Monday or Thur? Play games with friends from 8-11pm. Sleep?
7) None of the above? Work on client projects or over due development issues at work.
The sad fact is, I've carved out 2 hours on Tue and Thur to game. Within those two hours I really want to spend the time playing a game I love with the friends I love. Just like everyone else on this site. When I'm not doing those things I need to be either working on 2o2p, creating 2o2p content, working on off work client projects, or working on work related project. Some how in all this I need to actually keep the GF happy and sleep.
This was all a lot easier when I was just freelance, but since I've taken a larger roll at a big company I haven't really had that kind of time. As I said, 2o2p is a hobby and as a hobby it gets almost any and all my extra attention (probably too much). With that means a lot less time actually doing the thing I love... gaming. D has a similar issue, but add on top of that kids. I'd love nothing more then to carve out some more time for the fun sides of the site. Maybe in a few months that will be easier when I'm done with a lot of this client work, but for now its hard enough just to get a show together with LB and Hitman.
Doodi - understand about being busy withy RL. I got two kids I know what busy is. You should look into getting some more admins for the site. I know there are a few of us, myself included, with programing expierence on the site that would volunteer their services to help out the community.
You could even post the site code to Sourceforge and make it a community effort. Just a thought. "A gamer community designed by the community."
I think this is a very fair point and in a perfect world I'd do a lot more with the community. However with how much responsibility I have at my day job + after hours I'm left with little if any time to do fun things like game. My days look like this now...
1) Get out of work around 6pm (5:30 if I'm lucky)
2) Is it Monday? Cool do a show until 7:30 PM
3) Not a Monday? Great work on 2old2play or 3 of the current freelance projects I have going.
4) Is it a Wed? Sweet only day to spend with the lady and still spend that on a couch coding
5) Oh its a Thur? Do a show until 8:40pm.
6) Not a Monday or Thur? Play games with friends from 8-11pm. Sleep?
7) None of the above? Work on client projects or over due development issues at work.
The sad fact is, I've carved out 2 hours on Tue and Thur to game. Within those two hours I really want to spend the time playing a game I love with the friends I love. Just like everyone else on this site. When I'm not doing those things I need to be either working on 2o2p, creating 2o2p content, working on off work client projects, or working on work related project. Some how in all this I need to actually keep the GF happy and sleep.
This was all a lot easier when I was just freelance, but since I've taken a larger roll at a big company I haven't really had that kind of time. As I said, 2o2p is a hobby and as a hobby it gets almost any and all my extra attention (probably too much). With that means a lot less time actually doing the thing I love... gaming. D has a similar issue, but add on top of that kids. I'd love nothing more then to carve out some more time for the fun sides of the site. Maybe in a few months that will be easier when I'm done with a lot of this client work, but for now its hard enough just to get a show together with LB and Hitman.
Doodi - understand about being busy withy RL. I got two kids I know what busy is. You should look into getting some more admins for the site. I know there are a few of us, myself included, with programing expierence on the site that would volunteer their services to help out the community.
You could even post the site code to Sourceforge and make it a community effort. Just a thought. "A gamer community designed by the community."
I'd also be willing to help mod the site in general. I really believe that there needs to be an expansion in mods/admins with the ability to do more than just delete or edit posts. Some of the antics in the public forums are getting out of hand, and that's not helping keep new members or get existing members out of the clan forums.
Cheers Doodi that gives us something to sink out teeth into rather than bemoaning the unknown...Didn't realise there was still closed forums, that I thought had been thrashed out and sorted last shake up.
I see nothing in that list that actually changes anything for many of us here already, apart from the opening up of closed groups. I actually laughed when I got to bullet point 9, but I'll say no more about that, it seems to upset our moderator. He he.
The focus on Group interests seems reasonable, as you alluded it works well for the Forza group, and there seems to be no move away from the traditional forum model just an admitadly much needed revamp of how the site is presented...Navigation is not instinctive that is undeniable. I hope that as part of the revamp those of us that do want to activly play a role in the housekeeping of our respective corners get the tools we need. I do find it frustrating that the division I am responsible for is in such a state...Tidy house, tidy mind as my mum used to say...Well I'm not so tidy in the real world, but I do like any corner of the virtual world I may be responsible for to be neat and tidy.
So all in all I see nothing to panic about, indeed I am happy to see what your planning. It would take more than a revamp to get rid of me anyway, Too much fun to be had winding up Dixon, sparring with Jones and generally being a mouthy git LOL
Now that I have a decent smartphone, I really appreciate easy access. Halowaypoint and NeoGaf impressed me with their page layouts.
One thing I noticed in the open style on NeoGaf, was Topic ownership and snobbery. People will still cling to a territory and can be quite aloof or abusive to newcomers. I.E. Newcomers are always treated poorly if they don't fall in line with the aggregate opinion of the old school posters.
Ah, now I see what Doodi's been talking about us greasers about.
See, we actually enjoy more people on the track to race against, and we go out of our way to lead 'em in, show 'em around and generally help them find their way. It's not just that we have an open forum, we truly have an open group and the attitude that "the more the merrier". We point them to a thread that collects ALL the events currently running, with each linked to the actuall thread per event inside, and to threads on how to improve, who to talk to for tunes/paints/cars and credits if they need them. And then we get them out on the track and actually try to help them and not abuse them.
Granted, shooting someone in the head is actually a point to some games, and I get that, but I don't get the "nose in the air, why should I talk to the new guys" attitudes I see sometimes.
Cotter always said, introduce yourself and don't be shy, and that's what I did, and I haven't stopped yet. It's the only way to get involved especially if the place is a bit hard to find your way around. But the guys where I hang are outgoing, friendly and helpful to a fault. I mean,they will take a car, tune it they way their car is tuned, paint the damn thing and send it to you for free. So, you're racing the exact same car they are, and they actually hope you will give them the fight of their life on the track with it, and laugh the whole time the race is going on.
Heck we even took in guys from other games like Gunny (hehe). (Who is improving BTW).
Snobbery is detrimental, no matter where it's found. But it isn't the fault of some pixels on a screen or the layout of a forum board.
Event based gaming and mobile friendly i think would help tremendously.
As for the social sites I don't believe they are the answer. Sure they have great integration with media but so can a forum. There are a few issues i have with social sites for this. I believe they are too "open" for me. Posts don't live long there. Looking for anything that is more than 5 mins old is not possible. Having people like Gunny know my real name is kinda scary. :P
One suggestion i would like to add is to look at a portal type of approach. Make it a "hub" for older gamers. Not only focus on our own writers but have links to great articles elsewhere and feeds from game manufacture sites and other communities. This aligns to your idea of place where olders gamers can "hang out"
Event based gaming and mobile friendly i think would help tremendously.
As for the social sites I don't believe they are the answer. Sure they have great integration with media but so can a forum. There are a few issues i have with social sites for this. I believe they are too "open" for me. Posts don't live long there. Looking for anything that is more than 5 mins old is not possible. Having people like Gunny know my real name is kinda scary. :P
One suggestion i would like to add is to look at a portal type of approach. Make it a "hub" for older gamers. Not only focus on our own writers but have links to great articles elsewhere and feeds from game manufacture sites and other communities. This aligns to your idea of place where olders gamers can "hang out"
Some of this can be found in the blog's above. Some write, others simply draw attention to what's going on elsewhere.
I do agree that there is something to be said for having the ability to keep threads more than 24 hours, and yes, some media makes it hard in 24 minutes. I also reiterate that the more open it becomes, the more accessible and the more prone to trolling, which lends more need to mediating/maintenance from bots/trolls etc. Other than that I'm all for inflicting myself on as many as possible!
Might be nice to pull in some of the graphics design talent we have here, just look at some of the sigs...real skill there. Now look at the top of the page, kinda drab innit. Looks ain't everything I grant you, but folk don't pay for shop window displays for nothing.
It really does need to get easier to find other people playing the same game. I like the idea of event based gaming! I am not keen on the "mobile" thing because I have an old ass "boulder" phone. Eventually i will upgrade though. :)
Everytime I have to go off site to find a group to game with it sucks. I would like to keep playing here but when there is no one to game with, I stop gaming.
personally I think the whole site is segmented. We need one big forum with dedicated "threads" for groups or games. Something like Offtopic.com
Go take a look at the Forza forum, you'll see why that would not work across the board. One forum per game or game genre does make sense, once again the Forza forum shows how that can work, there are race teams (Clans in other parlance) Groups set up around race series, but all together in the one place. If you can't find someone to race, well you must be in the wrong forum as they have something going on all through the week on at least two continents. Splitting the gaming community into endless closed subdivisions has not worked to the benefit of the site, on that there is no argument.
Jay and Smoothy talked a bit about this on their latest broadcast
http://www.2old2play.com/media/still-got-game-ep-10-dickwolves
tl;dr?
The site needs a change. There were 3 posts updated today in off topic. That's no bueno.
I hope Doodirock can come up with a unique solution. I'm not interested in Google+ or Facebook type of solutions. If the site becomes more mobile friendly, what more can be done? People's posting will ebb and flow anyway. Right now, Twitter is this big mess of 128 character crap of cutesy or flaming junk.
I don't know, maybe this new social stuff makes sense somehow and I'm just not getting it. Or possibly I see the death of it before I get involved.
I hear you Deep. I'm not crazy about Google+ or other options. And I'll never understand Twitter. I also understand what you're saying about the ebb and flow. I get that gaming has sucked in the last year or so and understand why people weren't interested. Right now we are looking at the release of 2 major consoles. If anything, the activity and interest here should be higher.
That's assuming everyong didn't take their ball elsewhere. Which seems to be the case.
Umm, unofficially speaking for the racing guys, we need large pages with lottsa type available as we post applicable car groups, builds permitted per car per group, race results per race, race results per series...etc. etc....
...that said, I do think the lull on the new boxes is part of it and Forza's long in the tooth too but we're pretty active.
Help! I'm an old man, I'm stuck in my comfortable rut, and I'm scared of social media. If we make changes to the site that makes it more user friendly and easier to navigate, then we'll have a bunch of new people in here yakking away like they own the place and getting where they want to go easily. They will have no respect for tenure or hierarchy...they'll just jump right in with both feet and all of the old timers will be pushed out into the cold with nothing to eat but dogfood and government cheese. #HashtagMadness #HanShotFirst #JonesWasHere
Where exactly are these new folk going to come from? You can't exactly call me a social media Luddite, I have G+, Twitter, Farcebook, Myspace and Youtube accounts. But most of my online time is spent in forums. This one is in the doldrums...But how much of that is down to the long wait for new platforms and games? Look at any post about the new box and despite the fact there is feck all to talk about...people talk about it. There is nothing left to say about the 360 and the PS3. The games are long in the tooth to a large degree. The forum as I have often said lets threads get too personal and the same battles are fought out by the same people week in week out, that does us no favors.
I have been asking to get my admin rights for months, just to tidy up the PC Racing division. It's a mess of old threads, off topic posts etc. Have I got them? Have I hell. Don't know how many other forum and division admins are in the same boat, but it all adds up to a messy forum.
There is a danger of throwing the baby out with the bath water. I await to see what the changes actually amount to, to be fair we know fuck all. But that doesn't tend to stop most of us having an opinion LOL
For the people that already moved to Twitter or G+ there really is nothing we CAN do. They have made the choice to take a convo else where and I see no reason to try and convince them other wise. In fact, the changes to the site really wont be for the old school people at 2o2p. Those people already have their opinions on how the site should run etc and since I've allowed those opinions to drive a lot of the direction of 2o2p I'd say they haven't served the community very well. Instead I'd rather just make sure the old school members have a better overall experience on the site. That is a lot easier to do.
The reality is this... The ones that stood by clan forums, private areas, and a closed system have either A) got big and left to build something on their own or B) closed off so much that they contribute nothing to being an older gaming community and move to other forms of communication off the site anyway. This isn't bad mouthing those people. Keep in mind this happened to my own clan and some of my best friends. Now I'm sure we can debate this until the end of time, but the facts are pretty much in and a closed system kills this place. The AIM of the new site will be to end all that.
In terms of the model we're going after, it will look a lot more like what 2old4forza and PC Racing has done. Closed off clans can probably get exactly what they already have in a million other places on the internet and dont really need us anymore. Member traffic is currently the lowest portion of traffic on 2o2p and accounts for only 30% while traffic for shows, reviews, and articles is around 70%. Compare that to 3 years ago when outside traffic was 20% and members were 80% and you start to see how well the model of closed forums has served us. In the past we filled these draining ranks up by PR efforts on other sites and communities. This may have worked for a while, but its not something I'm interested in trying to sustain. I don't have time in my day anymore to try in get on the front page of Reddit, digg, Wall Street Journal, etc only to lose the influx of new members in 4 months time. I simply want a place for gamers to meet other older members to talk about video games.
Now I'm not going to commit to any specifics here since its just way to early to tell, but I can at least share my goals. The AIM is this...
As Derek and I have always said, 2o2p is something we do for fun. We've spent upwards of 5 figures on the site because its a passion and hobby. There is and never will be any goal of monetary gain here (there's no money in owning a gaming site). We currently take in $40 a month for donations and thats just fine. I'll keep the doors on for as long as I love this hobbie. For the people that stick around, great! However for those that don't, just keep in mind that 2o2p will always be a place for you and while I'm sad we dont agree on the direction here, I have to do what I think is fun and exciting for 2o2p. I see sites like Geezer Gamers all but closing down, and other sites following and it breaks my heart. Love them or hate them they create communities and friendships that last lifetimes. I'd hate to see that end for us as well.
Great post Doodi, I almost cried
I've met some great people on this site and unfortunately very few of them still come here regularly. The website is a great landing point for people. My concern for clans etc that spin out on their own is that there will be no new blood that comes from having a site like 2o2p. The diversity of people is what I love.
I think a model like google+ would work well. People can organise themselves into groups based on interests but everything is open to everyone. The ability to easily post multimedia is a must especially with gameplay recording on the way. I get a multikill in Battlefield 4, instantly post to 2old2play to brag to all my mates who can then comment on how awesome I am.
Doodi, I think you have a lot of good points in here, but I also have a concern. You're defining what the community needs, but you're not all that involved in the community itself. We see a post here or there from you, but when was the last time you've gamed with the community? If I remember right, you're mostly PC now, and that's a small fragment of the group. And Derek rarely posts unless it's about one of the shows. I know you guys are busy, and I respect that, but I also feel the lack of interaction with the leadership here at 2o2p in general chatter isn't helping one bit. I also believe you guys shouldn't be the only ones to shoulder that load...the leadership here needs to grow as well. Right now, there are few mods left to do anything about the discourse here on the site, which isn't helping keep people around any. Look at how the off topic threads keep devolving...it's not helping with the image of the site one bit.
I think leadership here needs to be more involved in the community before we start overhauling the community, and that the leadership needs to be expanded to accomodate any overhauling that happens.
I think this is a very fair point and in a perfect world I'd do a lot more with the community. However with how much responsibility I have at my day job + after hours I'm left with little if any time to do fun things like game. My days look like this now...
1) Get out of work around 6pm (5:30 if I'm lucky)
2) Is it Monday? Cool do a show until 7:30 PM
3) Not a Monday? Great work on 2old2play or 3 of the current freelance projects I have going.
4) Is it a Wed? Sweet only day to spend with the lady and still spend that on a couch coding
5) Oh its a Thur? Do a show until 8:40pm.
6) Not a Monday or Thur? Play games with friends from 8-11pm. Sleep?
7) None of the above? Work on client projects or over due development issues at work.
The sad fact is, I've carved out 2 hours on Tue and Thur to game. Within those two hours I really want to spend the time playing a game I love with the friends I love. Just like everyone else on this site. When I'm not doing those things I need to be either working on 2o2p, creating 2o2p content, working on off work client projects, or working on work related project. Some how in all this I need to actually keep the GF happy and sleep.
This was all a lot easier when I was just freelance, but since I've taken a larger roll at a big company I haven't really had that kind of time. As I said, 2o2p is a hobby and as a hobby it gets almost any and all my extra attention (probably too much). With that means a lot less time actually doing the thing I love... gaming. D has a similar issue, but add on top of that kids. I'd love nothing more then to carve out some more time for the fun sides of the site. Maybe in a few months that will be easier when I'm done with a lot of this client work, but for now its hard enough just to get a show together with LB and Hitman.
Doodi - understand about being busy withy RL. I got two kids I know what busy is. You should look into getting some more admins for the site. I know there are a few of us, myself included, with programing expierence on the site that would volunteer their services to help out the community.
You could even post the site code to Sourceforge and make it a community effort. Just a thought. "A gamer community designed by the community."
I'd also be willing to help mod the site in general. I really believe that there needs to be an expansion in mods/admins with the ability to do more than just delete or edit posts. Some of the antics in the public forums are getting out of hand, and that's not helping keep new members or get existing members out of the clan forums.
Cheers Doodi that gives us something to sink out teeth into rather than bemoaning the unknown...Didn't realise there was still closed forums, that I thought had been thrashed out and sorted last shake up.
I see nothing in that list that actually changes anything for many of us here already, apart from the opening up of closed groups. I actually laughed when I got to bullet point 9, but I'll say no more about that, it seems to upset our moderator. He he.
The focus on Group interests seems reasonable, as you alluded it works well for the Forza group, and there seems to be no move away from the traditional forum model just an admitadly much needed revamp of how the site is presented...Navigation is not instinctive that is undeniable. I hope that as part of the revamp those of us that do want to activly play a role in the housekeeping of our respective corners get the tools we need. I do find it frustrating that the division I am responsible for is in such a state...Tidy house, tidy mind as my mum used to say...Well I'm not so tidy in the real world, but I do like any corner of the virtual world I may be responsible for to be neat and tidy.
So all in all I see nothing to panic about, indeed I am happy to see what your planning. It would take more than a revamp to get rid of me anyway, Too much fun to be had winding up Dixon, sparring with Jones and generally being a mouthy git LOL
Now that I have a decent smartphone, I really appreciate easy access. Halowaypoint and NeoGaf impressed me with their page layouts.
One thing I noticed in the open style on NeoGaf, was Topic ownership and snobbery. People will still cling to a territory and can be quite aloof or abusive to newcomers. I.E. Newcomers are always treated poorly if they don't fall in line with the aggregate opinion of the old school posters.
Ah, now I see what Doodi's been talking about us greasers about.
See, we actually enjoy more people on the track to race against, and we go out of our way to lead 'em in, show 'em around and generally help them find their way. It's not just that we have an open forum, we truly have an open group and the attitude that "the more the merrier". We point them to a thread that collects ALL the events currently running, with each linked to the actuall thread per event inside, and to threads on how to improve, who to talk to for tunes/paints/cars and credits if they need them. And then we get them out on the track and actually try to help them and not abuse them.
Granted, shooting someone in the head is actually a point to some games, and I get that, but I don't get the "nose in the air, why should I talk to the new guys" attitudes I see sometimes.
Cotter always said, introduce yourself and don't be shy, and that's what I did, and I haven't stopped yet. It's the only way to get involved especially if the place is a bit hard to find your way around. But the guys where I hang are outgoing, friendly and helpful to a fault. I mean,they will take a car, tune it they way their car is tuned, paint the damn thing and send it to you for free. So, you're racing the exact same car they are, and they actually hope you will give them the fight of their life on the track with it, and laugh the whole time the race is going on.
Heck we even took in guys from other games like Gunny (hehe). (Who is improving BTW).
Snobbery is detrimental, no matter where it's found. But it isn't the fault of some pixels on a screen or the layout of a forum board.
Nice Post Doodi. Now lets make it happen.
Event based gaming and mobile friendly i think would help tremendously.
As for the social sites I don't believe they are the answer. Sure they have great integration with media but so can a forum. There are a few issues i have with social sites for this. I believe they are too "open" for me. Posts don't live long there. Looking for anything that is more than 5 mins old is not possible. Having people like Gunny know my real name is kinda scary. :P
One suggestion i would like to add is to look at a portal type of approach. Make it a "hub" for older gamers. Not only focus on our own writers but have links to great articles elsewhere and feeds from game manufacture sites and other communities. This aligns to your idea of place where olders gamers can "hang out"
Some of this can be found in the blog's above. Some write, others simply draw attention to what's going on elsewhere.
I do agree that there is something to be said for having the ability to keep threads more than 24 hours, and yes, some media makes it hard in 24 minutes. I also reiterate that the more open it becomes, the more accessible and the more prone to trolling, which lends more need to mediating/maintenance from bots/trolls etc. Other than that I'm all for inflicting myself on as many as possible!
Might be nice to pull in some of the graphics design talent we have here, just look at some of the sigs...real skill there. Now look at the top of the page, kinda drab innit. Looks ain't everything I grant you, but folk don't pay for shop window displays for nothing.
I would welcome some changes here.
It really does need to get easier to find other people playing the same game. I like the idea of event based gaming! I am not keen on the "mobile" thing because I have an old ass "boulder" phone. Eventually i will upgrade though. :)
Everytime I have to go off site to find a group to game with it sucks. I would like to keep playing here but when there is no one to game with, I stop gaming.
personally I think the whole site is segmented. We need one big forum with dedicated "threads" for groups or games. Something like Offtopic.com
Go take a look at the Forza forum, you'll see why that would not work across the board. One forum per game or game genre does make sense, once again the Forza forum shows how that can work, there are race teams (Clans in other parlance) Groups set up around race series, but all together in the one place. If you can't find someone to race, well you must be in the wrong forum as they have something going on all through the week on at least two continents. Splitting the gaming community into endless closed subdivisions has not worked to the benefit of the site, on that there is no argument.