DEEP_NNN
Shared on Tue, 08/07/2012 - 08:43I'm trying an experiment for Halo. It doesn't involve Clans. It does involve any 2old2play.com member who wants to play Halo in a specified way and in a specified time slot.
If you check out the Halo Series forum there is a post where I describe what I am trying to do.
If you are interested, just get on somebodies FL that is playing with this group. Alternatively you can send a XBL message to me or another involved person with the the text Inv in it.
I understand some people are going to wonder, "why Clanless"? Well, I have come to the opinion Clans create too much segregation on 2old2play. I no longer see the posting privacy inside a Clan forum as being an asset. Facebook, Twitter and other services should be enough for these personal affairs. I'd like to see Clans at the very least, open up their boundaries completely to other 2old2play members. It'd be better for 2old2play if Clan members posted their gaming stories in game specific forums, joined discussions in Off Topic and other topic specific forums. Perhaps that will help jump start this whole site for the better.
Clans have both good and bad sides to them and I've seen both over the years. I certainly appreciate the good parts.
2old2pwn has been a great association for me. Seven years of Clan nights! Seven years of of saucy bad ass behavior that I just love participating in! But my experiment conflicts with Clan membership and so I have unregistered myself.
If my experiment fails then I'll look to a Clan/Group option again but it will be a completely open one.
I kind of wish XBox Live had better options for handling groups. What a pain in the butt.
Comments
Submitted by FadeIntoBlack on Tue, 08/07/2012 - 15:08
Love what you are thinking...if I played Halo I would be all over it. I think a fair number of people on this site may even be in clans but not really playing games with those clans, so this would be nice and maybe have more success than all of the failed FoF tags floating around. More than anything, it would be nice to have new members come in and find places to participate. I would bet my next years pay that we lose nearly every member that signs up because they have no vehicle with which they can engage in games with others, saving perhaps that "New In Town" posting idea that leaves way too much to be desired. THey hang out for a few days, and then leave and never come back because of it.
Submitted by KnightofRedemption on Tue, 08/07/2012 - 19:28
Okay...here are the thoughts of someone who is in the biggest group here by far 2O4F. I live in our forum, I live there because I am a Racer, that is my online thing. I don't play any other games online. I have no interest in what the rest of you are up to, I hope you are having fun playing whatever rocks your boat but you wont find me hanging our in your groups however open they may be.
Why? a good question and I'm glad you asked it. Racing is time consuming, it is not just turning on the console or PC on the night and driving round a few laps, but most of you don't know that, nor do you care, nor should you. The other folk in 2O4F do, without explanation. They know because they do it. So they are my people.
No matter what you do with the structure of 2O2P I will do the same, I will find where my people are and stay in whatever corner we are in and rarely if ever come out.
Is this a bad thing? Of course not, this is what happens in the real world. People cluster. You see it at partys even when all there are friends they will cluster together into sub groups.
2O2Play is like a street of houses, each house a group of like minded souls going about their business. You want to know what is going on? knock on the door and you will be let in. Where's the problem?
I see talk of the 2O2Play community...there is none or rather there is a community of groups going about their business happy to have a home to do it. Yes there is a group of people behind the scenes, Doodie doing his level best to give us the best home he can, and the people around him...but the rest of us? the members quietly going about the business of indulging in whatever game it is that brought us here, well we are just happily playing. Is that not the idea?
There has been talk of V3 being the worst thing that ever happened...to those I say get a life, for heavens sake it's working fine for me and the rest of the guys over at 2O4F, and there are more of us than any other group, so if we can live with it I see no reason why everyone can...Its just a web site not life and death. It's changed, deal with it and move on.
Does all this mean I have no interest in making things better? in short no. I looked around and saw something missing, no home for PC Racing, so got together with Church Pro and decided to ask about the possibility of adding one to 2O2Play. A new forum bringing new people to 2O2Play. Does that make life better for the FPS clans? the Minecraft folk? of course not and I don't care, they happily take care of themselves and are not my responsibility.
So something of a stream of consciousness and if you have got this far, well done. In conclusion the site is not broke, there is a lot of dirty washing being aired in pubic and that is the result of blaming the site for the problems some people are having in their respective groups, by opening it up more we will just be exposed to more of the same.
Heh this is the longest post I have ever made on this site...I will now return to my little corner of 2O2Play and continue the planning for the new group.
Submitted by Walladog on Tue, 08/07/2012 - 19:49
Its good to share stream of consciousness. I would just caution you though. You have been a member here for 6 months. Some folks...like myself...have been here for 7 years. It may...just maybe....be that our experience is different. You might want to not dismiss things so casually. The fact that the most active forum on the site is a racing forum...kind of makes the point. According to ESA, racing gamers make up 5.8% of the total gaming public. (ESA 2012 Essential Facts guide)
At the switch to V3...my Clan (2old2pwn) had 11,242 topics and 141,484 posts. That was AFTER we voluntarily deleted quite a few. I'm not saying we have done everything right...or that we didn't have our occasional problems....but we might...MIGHT...now a few things about running an active and productive clan. We had at that time around 85 members...with around 35 active at any given time. That's with several different games (Halo, Battlefield, Modern Warfare) with respective nights for each. Our Clan LAN has topped out at 38 attendees and is in it's 8th year.
Again...not saying we are experts...but we also aren't idiots or new to this. Just something to consider.
Submitted by KnightofRedemption on Tue, 08/07/2012 - 20:30
Aha the first to respond and the first to misinterpret and wave his seniority. Okay I am 53 years old, been an administrator and global moderater of two other forums for several years, what does that mean? Nothing. I have not suggested anyone to be an idiot I simply say what I see. Great I'm glad your group (sorry I abhor the term clan) is doing well. And I did not suggest anywhere that groups were not being ran well, to be honest I don't care. It's none of my business. My opinion is just that, my opinion. Feel free to debate any of the actual points of my post by all means, I welcome debate.
edit...as it is gone 2am here I am off to bed so any posts under here I will see in the morning, so good night good folk.
Submitted by Walladog on Tue, 08/07/2012 - 20:30
I thought the Irish love clans! Ah...thats the Scots! :) Just getting to know you...and letting you get to know us!
Submitted by KnightofRedemption on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 04:12
That is the Irish as well, and a long a bloody history it's brought., but that is another story.
Submitted by KnightofRedemption on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 07:01
Hmm despite the fact no one is probably reading this...apart from the friendly looking Panda dude. I think I should expand on the "there is no community" comment...debating with myself? sure there is a name for that.
It was a sweeping statement, both true and untrue. Yes there is a core of folk that meet up, do the LAN thing have drinks slap each other on the back, talk all things 2O2Play...I'm 2000 miles away and will never be involved, this is a clique. A community of the great and the good and the predominantly American. Now I have no problem with that, apart from the fact I wish I had the wherewithal to come along...though I see no Racing on the agenda... But those of us in Ireland, England, Germany, Norway, and all the other places I know folk in my group reside are excluded from that community. So for us the site is about what we do from day to day.
In 52 days, somewhere in the windy city some of you will come together...the rest of us, the majority, will be here, doing what we do from home. We may read somewhere here what a fine time your all had, but will that make us part of that community? of course not.
During the change over from V2 to V3, the hard core members of 2O4F were on Farcebook, Google, MSL and god know where else, to keep our communication lines open. That my friends is an online community, alive and well, and here.
One thing in the mass of mostly in fairness irrelevant numbers thrown at me in the post a couple up from here was the fact according to some statistic only 5% or so gamers are racers...Yet we make up the largest percentage of members here...That is a puzzle, yes indeed, a 24 carrot gold conundrum.
Submitted by Walladog on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 08:38
I would offer to join you for some Forza...but I don't think you would appreciate it. There tends to be a lot of full contact crashing whenever I drive. If you are ever in BF3 or MW3 though I would be happy to share some whisky and gaming with you Knight.
Submitted by KnightofRedemption on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 08:50
Heh, I am as bad at those games as you say you are at Forza, I have just got MW3...I die...alot
The whiskey sounds good though, nice single malt from the west coast please.
Submitted by FadeIntoBlack on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 12:16
Just a quick question...your statistic that racers make up the largest percentage of members here comes from where? This site has many many active members and while 2o4f is active, it certainly does not contain the highest proportion of gamers on the site. I think any poll would return a predominantly FPS makeup (that is bad in its own right)
Personally I think there is room for both. The key point ,in my opinion, is to provide a method for people who do not focus on one game or genre to have a welcome open spot that allows them an opportunity to test the waters to see whether they like it here without any belief that they need to join a clan to do so. Forza brought you here but others like me have 3-5 games in the rotation at any given time including PC and console and tablet/phone. Like others here, from experience I can tell you that clans are working in a 'less than intended' manner (for many, not all) and I have seen all the iterations of them come and go here. Just my thoughts so do with them what you will.
Submitted by Lala Calamari on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 12:29
http://2old2play.com/og
2o4f has 885 members listed. I'm not sure how many of those are still active to the site or to the clan. But that the number of members.
Submitted by FadeIntoBlack on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 12:36
Thats nuts. I rarely see anyone from that group posting anywhere (except for jcotter) so either most of them aren't active or they really really DO like and exist only in their forum. Speaking of this....I think I might actually be in that clan. :P
Submitted by KnightofRedemption on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 13:49
Correct and part of my point, we stay in our forum because that is where we talk about what we talk about...and that has nothing to do with posting stuff that would not be tolerated out here it is simply because races and race series involve a lot of organising and that is where it is done, we also chew the fat and talk about other stuff but it tends to be in amoung the hundreds of threads our forum. I have nearly 1400 comments...pretty active I think you'll agree. The fact we don't post out here is no reflection on the public forums, just we are self contained and happy in our little world. I don't say we are the biggest to show off, or go on some kind of ego trip. I am just making the point there is a huge group, active and very much a community right under your noses. Have a look at the list of groups and the amount of posts in each one, you'll see we are way ahead of the rest...not that it is a race, but when you talk of a lack of community and a lack of activaty I point and say excuse me?
Submitted by YEM on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 12:49
It's just the largest group, not the largest percentage of members on the site.
Submitted by KnightofRedemption on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 13:52
Nit picking but okay.
Submitted by KnightofRedemption on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 15:23
Oh I agree and the site is big enough for all kinds of ideas, I also play more than one game on more than one platform but at the moment I just race online with the Box and PC, that takes more time than it should anyway :)
There is maybe a lack of focus to the front page...but what exactly you focus on is, and will be a subject of dicussion. I am just out here saying look we are happy, what we have is working great for us so please don't mess with our corner of 2O2Play. So we don't come out here as much as some would like...Sorry but I don't see that as a real problem. we make sure people who ask about our group are welcomed and gain entry. If those people never leave the confines of the forum well that speaks well of what they find and gives credit to the site as a whole that such a place can exist.
Submitted by Lala Calamari on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 07:48
LOL Walladog, get a grip. He was just stating his expeirence with 2o2p. Just because he's been he for 6 months doesn't mean he can't form an opinion on the site. He's a racer, where else is he going to go?
Submitted by DEEP_NNN on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 07:34
KnightofRedemption. A good post and certainly describes the more idylic side of Clans. I've been there for the good times and I've seen some of the bad times of many Clans. My first year in a Clan, I definitely had a Clan mindset. After that though, it started to decline. I fundamentally never believed in Clans of any kind before joining 2old2play. It just took a long time for me to remove myself from something that was mostly good for me. The gaming was great, the people are great, but I see now posting in the open for the public to see and participate in, is better for 2old2play.
I am thinking, whether we believe in Clans and the segregation they provide or not, do they benefit the site as a whole? If the site was more attractive to newcomers because they could see and participate in a wealth of posts, this site could grow in better ways. Clan forums on 2old2play have a wealth of posts in them that only they can see. Most of the posts would be perfect for public consumption.
People can have activity groups (Clans) on paper, so to speak. They only need to know when, where and how to game. I'm here for the gaming and the gaming attracts good people.
So I'm trying something new.
Submitted by KnightofRedemption on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 08:15
Yeah not knocking what your trying...My post was more of a tangent and dealing with the whole "Community" idea. To be honest I feel no need to post to the open part of the site, there is nothing much I feel the need to comment on...I do look from time to time... I care only that those looking to participate in the Forza side of things get noticed and brought in to the group. That is working fine. There is no need for the group to be open, we are self contained and while from a site point of view that may not be the ideal, it obviously works for us. I am a member of at least six other forums and there is only so much time in a day, I'm one of those who like to respond quickly to comments so am constantly jumping from tab to tab often involved in several conversations varying from Racing to Cats to Martial Arts.
Our group is not perfect and far from ideal, we have our quarrels, but these are for us only, our problems that we will deal with in our own way.
On saying that if and when 2O2Race is up and running I am happy for that to be open, it is not to be a "clan" as such but a place for PC racers to hang out, share thoughts and information. Does that mean other clan folk will use it? my guess will be no, unless they are interested in PC racing there is nothing there to attract them so open or closed makes no difference.
The same applies to the open forum here, only a small minority of people will use it, usually I suspect the same faces that always have, newer members like myself will tend to stay where we have our interests directly addressed. I simply don't see it as segregation, other than by interest.
I have come out of my little corner because there are moves afoot that directly affect me as a member, and as an active member of my group I have emerged to see what is going on and give my opinion on what I find...wanted or not LOL
Submitted by Grex on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 08:17
I agree with Knight. Not that i dont admire NNN's dedication to his cause I believe there is room for both. It does not have to be one way or another. One of the biggest draws to me for this site what that there were many clans under one roof, its also the biggest hurdle and dificult to manage. My gaming habits change over time this site has even opend my eyes to other game types. Most sites operate ont the basis on its all one clan and they focus on a paticular game type. What makes this site so great IMO is that is covers that variety. if you take away clans you are taking away a part of this stie that makes it diffrent and unique from all the rest.
If you remove clans all it becomes is a forum site about gaming and I feel will be less appealing to all.
Submitted by KnightofRedemption on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 08:25
Exactly, who knows one of these days I may decide I have the need to shoot someone, or go on a quest in some fantasy world...I like the fact I could stay here, click on the relevant group, and be playing with folk who would welcome me in the same way 2O4F did.
Submitted by XF1R3X on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 13:00
DEEP I think what you are trying to do is great. If I still owned a working Reach Disc I would be there, maybe ill try to find a cheap used one. If this falls into Halo3 sometime I'll gladly show and Play. If you need some help with this in anyway let me know.
Seems there is a lot of debate about clans and forums. Yes it is great to find a group and play with them but 2old2play is a community and shouldn't be a group of smaller communities inside the larger community. 2old2play public forums should be busier than the private clan forums. Yes groups will always form and play but there should also be public interaction. 99% of all Clan forum chatter could easily be done in the main forums but since people have private forums, they sit and hide in them without interacting publicly with people they might not even know are on the site.
Why in the world your experiment conflicts with clan membership bewilders me. You are setting up a public weekly game outside of the clan and that is a problem? and somehow it is a bad thing? This is 2old2play. A place for Gamers over 25 to find people to play with. ALL of the clans on this site, IN MY OPINION, should do more publicly as a way to interafct with fellow members, other groups, and show that we are a community as a whole.
Again DEEP, I fully support what you are doing 100% and to all of the 2o2p Clans, Can you seriously say that 99.9% of your private forum posts couldn't be done publicly?
F1R3
Submitted by Blue_Stiehl on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 13:15
His experiment doesn't conflict with clan membership. For years he has run the Over 40 Halo Tournament monthly and on Tuesdays, a Over 50 Halo night with no clan boundaries. His clan has never had a problem with either. Part of Deep's experiment involves gaming on the site without clans.
Submitted by XF1R3X on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 13:39
LOL, I read it wrong :) apologies Blue
Submitted by DEEP_NNN on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 13:35
You are correct about the Over 50 and Over 40 but it's because they are not official 2old2pwn Halo Clan nights.
The Thursday night time slot 100% conflicts with 2old2pwn's only official Halo Clan night. While I might not have been kicked out of the Clan for providing my experimental service in that time period, it would have directly competed with the Clan and created a bad situation for me. So I believe the experiment is a conflict of membership and that is not a misrepresentation.
It was easiest for me to exit the Clan and I have said in the OP, I have the other reasons for not wanting to be in a Clan.
Submitted by Blue_Stiehl on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 14:01
Submitted by XF1R3X on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 14:06
Why would another night be better over Thursday?
Submitted by Walladog on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 14:23
Thursday night at that time is our traditional Clan Halo night. Blue's point is...if you are truly just separating from the Clan...why would you immediately announce a Halo event...on the same night and time as usual Clan Halo event. It could be construed as trying to make the kids choose who to live with when Mommy and Daddy get divorced.
Submitted by XF1R3X on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 14:38
But if Deep is planning a public 2old2play recurring event, scheduling around the clans and their schedules would defeat the purpose of a Site wide Halo event. I would think all the halo clans would line up to play as a way to show support for a 2old2play public event and not just their clan event. So it isn't about choosing a side, it is about the whole of 2old2play.
Submitted by Lala Calamari on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 14:39
Good luck there Fire. One of the more frustrating things with running site wide events is getting other clans involved. It's a shame there wasn't more of that.
Submitted by Walladog on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 14:42
I understand. Blue's point is just that Thursday nights have been 2old2pwn Halo night for 7 years. It could be misconstrued if you leave and the first choice for an ongoing event is in the same time slot.
As far as all the clans lining up to play..I don't think every clan member is going to just give up a 7 year tradition to play with non clan people. A non-recurring event could draw people out. But quitting the clan and then immediately announcing a competing event is kind of a line in the sand. I don't know if that was Deep's intention...just explaining Blue's comment.
Submitted by XF1R3X on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 14:50
Walla it isn't about people stopping tradition it is about what 2old2play was originally intended for, Gamers over 25 playing games together. When you say "I don't think every clan member is going to just give up a 7 year tradition to play with non clan people" simply strengthens Deep's Point. Clan Members Vs Non Clan members. the Only Clan on the site I know that does an Open clan night and advertises it is 2old2shoot. So how does your clan interact with new members in games or publicly in the Halo forums? Most clans don't, they sit in Private forums and have private clan nights, alienating non clan members and/or new members to the site who are looking for older gamers to play with. Deep's event is a great idea and I would think that anyone who has been on 2old2play for any amount of time would understand that. Would a single event draw more attention sure, but a recurring site wide event could draw the same attention and get members of the 2old2play community gaming together and not just boxed in their private clans.
Submitted by Walladog on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 15:11
It would be nice but the rest of the world doesn't live in your fantasy.
First how do "exclude non clan members"? It's a club. That's like saying why don't they let boys in the girl scouts? Anyone who wants to check out our clan can get an invite. We regularly get requests...those people are matched up with staff who play the same games...and then we get them right into gaming with the clan to see if they are a good fit.
Sometimes they aren't...most times they are. We have a staff meeting every month and we review potential new members...as well as inactive members that may need poked or dropped.
You can't just dump everyone in the same big bucket and expect them to get along.
In halo for example...driving people off a cliff in a warthog will elicit laughs and good times with one group...while it will cause boots from the game and violent comments from another.
The utopian idea of everyone just getting along is just a fantasy. People have different personalities, different play styles, different gaming preferences, different senses of humor.
Aside from the over 50 Halo night...I don't think there has ever been a recurring site wide event with a group this large...anywhere. It just isn't possible. Well actually...I guess that isn't site wide. It "alienates" people under 50. Clique-ish if you ask me. They just sit in that group and won't interact with any of the Clans.
BTW...that was sarcasm...I wasn't sure if you would get that...because you may not have the same sense of humor as I do.
DAMN! Did it again ^=====
Submitted by XF1R3X on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 15:42
I Love sarcasm and I'm sure we would have a great time playing Halo together. Am I asking or do i think everyone would get along? Ummm No, that is unrealistic, hence why 2old2play has mods in the forums.
The over 50 is a site wide event open to any member over the age of 50 and oddly enough members of numerous clans on the site. Members could easily offer a site wide 2old2play event for halo for younger people if they wanted to, why? because it is site wide for 2old2play and not just a set Club of people sitting in a private forum, not interacting with everyone else.
You are correct, people have different play styles. I am an ultra comp guy BUT i also love driving a warthog off the edge or playing an MLG gametype with random secondaries because it is full of laughs. you may not know that since you and i rarely if ever, have played together. If there was only a place that all the halo players on the site could mingle and interact. Simply saying a casual player may not like MLG play and vice versa is close minded and full of assumptions. I have participated with every Halo clan and their clan nights and had a blast playing all types of games, laughing the entire time. Even inside each clan there are smaller groups of casual and comp guys. So yes, 2old2play can dump everyone into a bucket simply because 2old2play is a community site and people will always gravitate towards one another who enoy playing together. Plus with everyone in the same bucket it is easy for players who have questions or looking forways to improve to ask. Halo series could easily have a sub forums . I find the lack of participation from clans very disturbing given everything 2old2play as a whole offers. A Long time ago we had weekly games, Boot Camps, and ways to improve. I ran a lot of things like that and they were received well. that is how I gave back to the community, but the community was also very public and not broken into private clubs. Members from all the Halo clans joined these and I met a lot of members this way and still receive PMs from members asking about Ways to improve in Reach and Halo 3.
So simply assuming that people wont get along because of skill level, personality or any other reason you can try to find is a moot point. 2old2play needs to return to a public community, where members interact and play games with one another and not locked away inside private forums. you should try it, you might find new people you enjoy playing with.
:) Hugs
Submitted by Walladog on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 16:06
It's not a moot point though. Being actively involved in maintaining a clan for 7 years...I do have some actualy experiences to base my statement on. It's not an assumption...I have seen time...and time...and time again.
It happens in every Clan...and the people that don't fit in usually don't tell you..they just stop participating.
Did I mention Halo 4 is supporting Clans? :)
Lastly, let me explain the biggest reason for private Clan forums. Its trust and privacy. From 2old2play I know a doctor, a state law enforcement officer, two Federal employees, two active duty military, 4 school teachers, and an elected public official.
They have a certain standard of behavior that befits their vocation. That doesn't mean they don't deserve to let their hair down like regular human beings.
That being said, if you are in one of those positions and you post anything other than the most mundane things about your life on the open internet...you are an idiot. Both current and prospective employers (because anyone could have to start looking for a job soon) can and do know how to use Google.
While you may be a tremendous asset to an employer and a hard worker, making dick jokes about KidMach could get you fired...or worse...not hired when you really need new employment. And once it is out there....you can't take it back.
If the only forum we had to post in was public...many of these active members would just cease to post anything other than pictures of their cats.
Or maybe which color armor they like in the next Halo franchise.
When you set up a private forum you offer an area where trust can be afforded. Much like houses. I might talk to my neighbor about cars, then invite him for a burger. I'm not going to sit in my boxers though and let him see that I like to eat twinkies semi-nude.
The fact that you can get to know people, post about your life...your day...your family...your favorite armor....your experience with Thai food...without having to worry who can see it is paramount to strengthening a community. There is NO way anyone here can develop a relationship with 14,000 users. At best I think you could really get to know maybe 50-100 people. And that tends to be the size of active members in most clans...if that. Many only hover around 35 or so.
Probably half the posts I have ever made are things I would NEVER post on an open forum. Because to people who don't know me already...something funny can be taken out of context and it starts a fight.
For instance, if my wife says she needs her tires rotated and I respond by unbuttoning my shirt and saying "Oh...I'LL ROTATE your tires!" with an amorous wink...its funny...and possibly cool. If I do the same thing at my office...I will get sued.
Half of the things I post would immediately start a flame war in open forums. I know...I have some experience in this area....
:)
Submitted by KnightofRedemption on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 16:19
Agree 100%
Submitted by Walladog on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 16:22
I knew we would see eye to eye when you agreed to whiskey and tequila.
Submitted by KnightofRedemption on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 18:05
Heh but now my I agree post is under a post I dont agree with...so excuse me while I disagree with that one LOL
Submitted by XF1R3X on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 17:00
Even with all of that you still have not made clear how your private clan benefits the 2old2play community as a whole. The majority of gaming related topics discussed in private forums could easily be had in public gaming forums with the entire community for that game. Most clans don't bother, they lock themselves inside that forum and don't bother posting in public. Should people have an escape sure, but how do private clans then repay the greater community for what 2old2play offers and interact with other members of the site. They don't and won't because they don't have to, which is a very one sided relationship.
Clan support in Halo 4 is awesome, but 2old2play clan forums were originally formed wayyyyyy back when the site clans had tournaments and were not intended for people to leave the public eye and stop interacting with the larger community.
We are all 2old2play members, whatever clan you beloing to was probably started on 2old2play. When we stop interacting with each other in the public forums and members block themselves in the private forums, we are no longer a community at large.
In my opinion, clans and members should get out of their private forums and start doing more in the public forums. 2old2play doesn't have to offer private forums. None of us Pay a subscription to be here. So Walla, you say your private forum is important, then maybe the public forums should become just as important for topics that don't relate to personal items. Then maybe we as a community can show that we appreciate what 2old2play offers us all by participating in more than just our private forums and start moving conversations into the Public arena.
Just my .02 but If we are just a bunch of private forums then why would Doodi bother continuing the 2old2play community? Why bother continuing to offer the services 2old2play does?
But don't listen to me, I'm sure we have nothing in common or even play any of the same games...... Oh wait, you play Halo.... Weird, seems we might have 1 or 2 things in common.
Edit: and when I say people should get involved in the public forums, I don't mean ALL the forums, I mean the forums specific to their gaming interests.
Submitted by KnightofRedemption on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 18:25
I have stated repeatedly there is nothing in the Public forums of any interest to me, and from the discussion going on in our forum that is true for most. we are here to involve ourselves with racing, not anything else. Why on earth do you have a problem with that? we are using the facilities of the site, the one we want and need. what we don't need is anything outside that. The public Forza forum works as a catchment area for people to ask about the group, and then get into the group...job done. Note I speak only of and for the group I am a member of not for anyone else.
The so called 2O2Play community is predominantly American and represented in our group by Cotter...and maybe one or two others, they do not frequent the game we play or the forum we live in so why are we expected to come out and play? Play what? talk about what? I have an ongoing problem with RWD cars, and I hate the Nurburg ring, Track night was fun tonight until my lag issues raised their ugly head. Getting the last monitor for my race rig this week, MSL still mess with my Fanatec wheel...do feel free to chime in when you have something of value to add.
Submitted by XF1R3X on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 19:17
Value added post. It is already established the racing community is a small niche group, while 2o4F clan forum is very active, I am and have been referring to the games that have many clans associated with them. So i'm not speaking to youand haven't been because I know the Forza group is .... well 2o4Forza. thanks for commenting though, glad you could add your .02 in. have a great evening and I'll look for you on the race track :) hugs ....
Submitted by KnightofRedemption on Thu, 08/09/2012 - 07:03
LOL you are such a silly boy, I'm sure your valuable input is a prime example of why people tend to stay inside their own forums.
Submitted by DEEP_NNN on Thu, 08/09/2012 - 07:46
KnightofRedemption. No, Fire is and has been a very reasonable leader here at 2old2play.
The replies in this topic have gotten very heated and many responses are not reflective of the good behavior that their owners usually present. Clans are a big concern for many people.
It is my wish that everyone stop replying to this Blog and seek out future topics on Clans that will likely be forth coming from site Administration.
Submitted by YEM on Thu, 08/09/2012 - 08:37
If you are just here to involve yourself with racing, why does that racing talk need to be in a private forum? Why can't you talk about your RWD cars and Nurburg ring in the public racing forum?
Submitted by Walladog on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 18:47
Well...since you appear to be clueless...allow me to answer your claims. What does our "private" clan give to the community as a whole.
First...our clan existed BEFORE 2old2play. It was called Clan Crosseyes. Most of the members transitioned to 2old2play and we reformed as 2old2pwn.
Our "private clan" has generated enough active and involved members to produce at least 4 Site Moderators. Thats a job they did...outside the clan forum...for the benefit of the site...for free.
We have at least 3 people become either gaming forum or other clan forum moderators
The guy whose blog we are in has contributed to the Halo community all over the site.
I personally have produced tutorials and videos for the site's use.
I have contributed as a "private clan member" to site content with articles, reviews, and member profiles.
I have contributed as a member of the writing staff to front page articles, reviews, and member profiles
Our private clan has a member CURRENTLY on the writing staff contributing.
By my rough estimate (I can't put too fine a point on how clueless you are here) our "private clan" has donated over $7000 to 2old2play over the life of our clan. In case you were wondering where I got that number (and if Doodi or someone has an actual accounting I would be curious of the real dollar amount) here is what I estimate:
10 members X $25 per month average SCC membership = $250
$250 per month X 24 Months (just an average here.) = $6000
$6000 + $500 from LAN donations (in our early LAN years, we took any extra money left from our LAN party...AND DONATED IT TO THE SITE) = $6500
$6500 + $500 misc. donations and podcast sponsorships = $7000
So in addition to list of stuff above...I would say conservatively we have donated around $7000 in cash to the site in our clans history. I suspect the real number is even a little higher.
In return...we havn't asked anything other than a home for our clan. Aside from a couple podcast prizes...I think the only payment anyone has ever recieved was a copy of the game "Binary Code" which I recieved free to review.
So...yes...aside from all that.....we haven't done anything. Bigger question...what the fuck have you done? Even if clans stay in their forums...no one is blocking the door to the site. New members come in...why arent you out there whooping things up in public forums? Why isn't there a robust non-private area? Nothing is preventing it. And truthfully...if all the clans are so private they keep people out...they should take care of themselves right? I mean, new people to the site can't get in a clan and then just hang out in public areas right?
Except that's not happening.
I would proudly say that the "private clan" has contributed as much to this site as any other group. Moreover, even when we disagree or are unhappy with something...we remain loyal to this site. Many of us reference the site "not our private clan" in our gamer profiles on Xboxlive. We are always asking people we meet in matchmaking about their age and turning them on to the site. There is no direct benefit in it for us. But many of us love the idea of turning someone new onto 2old2play.
so....
Get a clue.
Submitted by KnightofRedemption on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 19:10
Damn after a shaky start I have to say I'm getting quite fond of the friendly panda dude LOL, While recrutement to 2O4F is doing quite well the plan for 2O2race is also aimed at getting more folk here. I may be new but I tend to hit the ground running. While I have never been asked for any kind of subs I'm damn sure every man jack in the group would shell out a few quid for the pleasure of being here and to help fund the site...
Submitted by KnightofRedemption on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 19:12
But hell this whole disussion is now so complicated with posts all out of sync it's impossibe to follow.
Submitted by Walladog on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 19:38
You may actually get me to play a driving game.
Submitted by XF1R3X on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 19:14
Awww I must have hit a nerve. My background is simple. I joined 2o2p in August 2005 my original site name was firewtr96 (long story on the other name and it's boring). I was in The Clan Crosseyes. I over years have donated time, money and many other things. The problem you have is saying I am clueless yet you seem clueless to my points, which is fine because you are more concerned with trying to prove your point as right and not understanding both sides of the argument. I understand why people want private forums, I get that. I understand both sides of it, So get a clue and try to actually understand more than your point, I'm not trying to be right, I am trying to make a point. I'm sorry you feel I am attacking you because I'm not. I am asking clans to make their public presence in the forums known, move the gaming conversations to the public arena and show new members or people looking in that we are an active community. Is that so bad? Clearly Deep agrees or he wouldn't be making a push to try and jump start soemthing, again please try to look past your own longing to be right and see the bigger picture. If you had been here in 2005 then you know the public forums used to be very active and new members loved that about 2old2play. Having been here so long, you should know that.
We have a very stagnant public forum prescence. We have people join the site, see nothing going on in the public forums and leave. This is because people stay in their private forums. So how do we grow 2o2p and not stay stagnant? Well that comes from people getting out of their little corners and becomning more active. I'm not asking for a lot here, I'm asking for people to interact with more than just their clans and private forums. I'm not saying do away with the private forums, I am saying there needs to be more active public participation or there is little point for 2old2play as a whole to exist.
So instead of trying to be a condescending prick, why not try to see the other side of things also and understand it is a bigger community issue and an argument of trying to produce growth and not knock out the private forums all together.
I am looking forward to your next "I'm gonna be right post"
Submitted by Walladog on Wed, 08/08/2012 - 19:35
Well here it is. I know exactly who you are. In fact I know a lot about your history...which I would be happy to post outside our "private forum".
It all boils down to this. If our clan wants to be more private...we do contribute...we do come out and play...we do both organize and attend mixers...we donate. If we choose to be more private with our posts...we aren't bothering anyone. We run a good group with good people.
We don't want to force anyone else to act like our clan...post like our clan...etc. We have our way and we pay our fair share in both money and deeds to earn some respect and consideration.
You however roll in and want to burn everyone elses house down because everyone has to play by your rules.
If you think more public participation would be good...great...try to encourage that. What you can't do is somehow "force" people to contribute. If they wanted to publicly contribute now...they would be doing it...and some do.
If they aren't comfortable doing it...none of your "I know better" attitude or rules are somehow going to change that. You know best for us what we want? And how exactly would you regulate it? Make a required "minimun number of posts" per user? You should work for the government!
People will just go away entirely. Which in the end would be bad for the individual clans...bad for the site...and really bad for you because you would have to find somewhere else to troll.
You want to do something different. Great...go do it. Then STFU and leave the rest of us to do things the way we want.