After May 21st drops, is 2o2p going to do comparison between the PS4 and New Xbox? Maybe a simple checklist. I actually read this thread a good bit because all of you have some really cool insights / rumour mill stuff. KEEP IT UP for us uninformed gamers.
According to video game analyst Michael Pachter from Wedbush Securities, neither of the next generation consoles that are launching this fall will block used game sales. Both Sony’s PlayStation 4 and the next Xbox from Microsoft will offer disc-based and downloadable game content, but neither console will follow through with the controversial DRM issues that have enraged passionate gamers with the recent PC game launches of Electronic Arts’ SimCity and (to a lesser extent) Blizzard Entertainment’s Diablo 3.
“I don’t think Microsoft has the balls to block used games, and I want you to quote me on that,” said Pachter. “Microsoft would alienate 30 percent of their audience by doing that and Sony would step in and exploit that by saying, ‘We’re not blocking used games.’”
According to video game analyst Michael Pachter from Wedbush Securities, neither of the next generation consoles that are launching this fall will block used game sales. Both Sony’s PlayStation 4 and the next Xbox from Microsoft will offer disc-based and downloadable game content, but neither console will follow through with the controversial DRM issues that have enraged passionate gamers with the recent PC game launches of Electronic Arts’ SimCity and (to a lesser extent) Blizzard Entertainment’s Diablo 3.
“I don’t think Microsoft has the balls to block used games, and I want you to quote me on that,” said Pachter. “Microsoft would alienate 30 percent of their audience by doing that and Sony would step in and exploit that by saying, ‘We’re not blocking used games.’”
Good find. I really hope that this is true, as it would effectively end my console gaming forever. The rumor of no backward compatibility bothers me almost just as much though. True I have a 360, but there's only so much shelf space, HDMI ports not to mention the longevity of the older system itself.
stungun you bring up a good point although you might not have realized you did it. Microsoft and Sony will have to market the strengths of their console that the other one lacks.
Sony announced their console in February, and Microsoft bided their time to get great timing 3 weeks before E3. Check this out though - Microsoft has that timespan from February to May to adapt what they are going to say to counter Sony.
While they can't just go and make sweeping hardware or software changes, they can easily place additional emphasis in the announcement on things Xbox does that PS4 doesn't do.
Things to watch for based on that on May 21st:
Backwards Compatibility
Xbox Live items carrying over from Xbox 360 to next Xbox
However, Microsoft will probably unveil completely new offerings that Sony won't, but they won't pass those off as the other companies shortcomings.
Things like HDTV integration, new Kinect 3D rendering (Fusion - the tech to take a real 3D object and scan it with Kinect) will be interesting.
They'll probably show how their Smartglass any device software has evolved, and make not that its been around for a while now (before PS4+Vita game streaming namely).
One thing that is tricky here is Microsoft has to show it's a console for gamers, while at the same time showing that it does all the gaming a PS4 does PLUS offers all sorts of features like the interactive TV. Their long term strategy for several years "input one" has been focused on getting Xbox to be the only device needed. Taking over the livingroom. The thought they want people to have then is "Why buy this other console, when Xbox does all that and more?" The trick then is to make core gamers interested while offering the new features that aren't strictly game related.
I did read an article today that Sony's 2 hour reveal had almost two dozen people take the stage. None of them were women.
Sony was definitely positioning the PS4 as a gaming console. Very much the message during their reveal. However, in my opinion of course, the most interesting games shown were indie titles. That's good considering their push for indie developer support, but not so good when compared to the actual AAA titles that were more about graphics. We've heard gamplay over graphics quite often as gamers, but that wasn't what Sony had said with its reveal. The racing game with team based action could be cool, but a lot of presentation was about how good the threadcount was in the seat you'll never see while actually racing.
I'm sure Microsoft will make clear they won't require the Internet for games to function, and that used games can play. They'll probably drop the used games part during the backwards compatibility part to make it seem less like they're shutting down a rumor.
One thing I want to mention is that due to the close proximity of E3 Microsoft will have to split its message a bit in order to not take the wind out of their own sails at the E3 opening. I'm sure they'll want to talk about hardware more at the 21st than E3 because that allows for more game reveals at E3. What I'm really wondering is if they'll drop surprise game/dev announcements at all at the 21st, or perhaps if they'll even announce more than one. Depending on how much they have to say for exclusive deals, I would think 2 big deals announced on the 21st to be ideal. Talk hardware, gaming including developers, connectivity and TV, and Smartglass.
I just think it'd be advantageous to save most game reveals for E3 to really get gamers going, while deflating Sony's program just a few hours later. With the media coverage, they'll want to mention the new features for the system itself a bit there too.
So I won't be surprised at all if nearly all of the 21st is about the system, showing the actual console, its capabilities, services and deals there, and just a dash of game devs to speak.
Price I'd think would come at E3. Especially if they are planning a lower one than most have been thinking - it'd be the prime time to hurt their competitor since it's just 3 or 4 hours before Sony would speak.
Anyways, I've written enough for now. MSFT is looking to break out of its decade long sideways rut, so things to do. Bring some more speculation, it's fun to read.
I do not think back compat is really that big of a deal. The 360 only supported a fraction of games for back compat and even then had issues with some of them. So I do not think you will have a huge population of "No back compat no sale" camps. Now if for some reason if people cannot play MP games while using different systems, then that might be an issue. For example if Ghosts mp only allows 360 players to play against 360 players and Nextbox players against Nextbox players. I would assume that is not the case...at least I hope it is not the case.
As far as worrying about being back compat and not having enough inputs, you can get a 4x1 hdmi switch for 25 bucks with tax and shipping. So that really sould not be an issue.
I don't mind disc backwards compat not being there AS MUCH as XBLA games not working. They're fully digital and should run on the new box with slight tweaks. If all your money spent on non-sellable XBLA games was just gone, that would piss me off.
I don't mind disc backwards compat not being there AS MUCH as XBLA games not working. They're fully digital and should run on the new box with slight tweaks. If all your money spent on non-sellable XBLA games was just gone, that would piss me off.
It was $130 with two games. But fuck that man that piece of junk has only been out like two years and no games worth playing have ever come out. Now they expect us to pay up for another piece of crap accesory so my daughters can play a dance game? FUCk M$.
It was $130 with two games. But fuck that man that piece of junk has only been out like two years and no games worth playing have ever come out. Now they expect us to pay up for another piece of crap accesory so my daughters can play a dance game? FUCk M$.
Kinect 2 will come bundled with every X-Box from the go.
Shadow, the XBLA games will hopefully work, but it isn't so easy. If they include a 360 in the new Xbox as a System on a Chip, then arcade and full games should work. However, because of the architecture being different this time, things aren't a quick port.
Backwards compatibility is a nice feature that most people wouldn't mind having, but obviously isn't a requirement. It's nice on Microsoft's end as well because if people can trade in the 360 for a new Xbox then Microsoft just got a new Xbox into someone's house, including the new online ecosystem offerings and new games/accessories that go with it. It's benificial on both ends, but not required.
Kinect is a good point. There were all sorts of rumors about the 2.0, including official Microsoft leaks. One had the new version being two seperate devices which is very different than the current Kinect. Illumiroom and Fusion both show a device that looks just like the current Kinect in use though, so there is that.
I suppose if the new Xbox is backwards compatibile with games and online items, then the Kinect would be treated like any 360 hardware and traded in or sold. What else to do with controllers, headsets, the system itself, chatpads etc.? One Kinect bothers me a lot less than the 8 or so controllers I've bought over the years :P
Backwards compatibility is a nice feature that most people wouldn't mind having, but obviously isn't a requirement.
It is a requirement for some of us. I'm sorry but it's not a big trick to make the new console backward compatible. After how many 360's I purchased due to the build problems and cash I have invested into Microsoft it's just another slap in the face to the consumer not to add the feature.
I don't see the big deal about getting things to run on backward compat - games do PC/Mac ports all the time. Linux/DOS are not the same thing yet they seem to port over.
I don't see the big deal about getting things to run on backward compat - games do PC/Mac ports all the time. Linux/DOS are not the same thing yet they seem to port over.
Some game's can't be run natively even between versions of Windows.
Truthfully, it takes extra work for a developer to make their game run on Windows, and Mac. Some games even stop supporting Mac after a while, such as EVE, because of this extra work. Now if you have an entire library of games on a console that built up over half a decade, across a wide range of developers some of which aren't even around anymore, who is going to do the extra work for every game to bring them over?
I don't see the big deal about getting things to run on backward compat - games do PC/Mac ports all the time. Linux/DOS are not the same thing yet they seem to port over.
It’s probably a weak investment. Cost something to do the port. How many new copies of Barbie’s Great Horse Adventure would need to be sold to recoup the cost of the port? The industry would rather focus on new content with a fresh 12-18 month DLC stream than spend any money on a 5 year old game with extremely limited revenue potential. Plus it ties back into the used games issue. Going backwards mostly supports already played games.
Backwards Compatibility: Don't care, I want new games with the best possible graphics and lots more content (DLC or otherwise). Huge expansive worlds to explore with stunning visuals and epic new gameplay experiences. I don't want a shiny new machine that I have spent hundreds of dollars on so i can throw Forza 2 or Ghost Recon into it. I'd keep the old system if I want to play old games. (I will be keeping my 360... At least for a little while)
Always On-Line: Okay, fine. I'm always on-line anyway. Sure, some people have connection issues or lack of service altogether. I'm guessing that those conditions and availability will improve over time. It's great to see what my friends are up to and maybe join them in some game play for a while. I can hardly remember what gaming was like before that.
I am excited about 5/21. I was impressed by SONY's press conference. They had some great ideas that they will be implementing and can't wait to see how MS will respond.
Backwards Compatibility: Don't care, I want new games with the best possible graphics and lots more content (DLC or otherwise). Huge expansive worlds to explore with stunning visuals and epic new gameplay experiences. I don't want a shiny new machine that I have spent hundreds of dollars on so i can throw Forza 2 or Ghost Recon into it. I'd keep the old system if I want to play old games. (I will be keeping my 360... At least for a little while)
Always On-Line: Okay, fine. I'm always on-line anyway. Sure, some people have connection issues or lack of service altogether. I'm guessing that those conditions and availability will improve over time. It's great to see what my friends are up to and maybe join them in some game play for a while. I can hardly remember what gaming was like before that.
I am excited about 5/21. I was impressed by SONY's press conference. They had some great ideas that they will be implementing and can't wait to see how MS will respond.
Except for some level of compatibilty (Halo), I agree. I want newer, bigger and better looking stuff.
Im not too worried about the backwards issue. I will be bumming if/when they announce GTA V will be 360 only although:( Otherwise like the rumored Forza 5 and COD:Ghosts are already slated for Next gen so that should keep me busy for a while. I'm with Snappy with this one. Give me new, awesome enviroments to conquer! Give me bullets that grow into dragons and devour my opponents.
I'm not going to get the next gen console of either company. I'm barely playing the 360 as it is anymore... just some RB and Pinball2 mostly. I turned to PC last year exploring services like Steam and Origin and am pretty happy with that. I'm not a graphics-junkie anyway. I'll play a 8-bit game in an emulator if it's fun enough, so yeah...
And even my PC-gaming is in danger as my 1gig Nvidia card is rapidly becoming obsolete and 4gig sysmem is a fucking joke nowadays. I'll be hard-pressed to be able to play new games by christmas this year as it is... and 2014 will most certainly scrap my rig.
As it stands... MS can keep their new fangled doodad. I'm not interested at all.
Forgive me, I didn't know that this is a 'only one point of view is viable'-discussion. ^^
Seriously though, as you undoubtedly know, your 360 is always on. Even when you shut it down. That means that your Kinect is always on too. The 720 comes with a mandatory kinect, which you need to even be able to operate the 720.
I'm just saying, spontanious sex with the wifey on the couch should probably be given some thought with a 720 watching your ass. ^^
Forgive me, I didn't know that this is a 'only one point of view is viable'-discussion. ^^
Seriously though, as you undoubtedly know, your 360 is always on. Even when you shut it down. That means that your Kinect is always on too. The 720 comes with a mandatory kinect, which you need to even be able to operate the 720.
I'm just saying, spontanious sex with the wifey on the couch should probably be given some thought with a 720 watching your ass. ^^
Bolded for insider info. I didn't know you worked for MS and could disseminate that information before it was confirmed. That's awesome, tell me more and please link it!
Your 360 is not "always on" in the way that we speak of "always on". You can't turn it on from a remote location, it can't receive network data when it's off (you can confirm this by looking at your router) and it's not running other than being plugged in the power source waiting for the "turn on" command.
Forgive me, I didn't know that this is a 'only one point of view is viable'-discussion. ^^
Seriously though, as you undoubtedly know, your 360 is always on. Even when you shut it down. That means that your Kinect is always on too. The 720 comes with a mandatory kinect, which you need to even be able to operate the 720.
I'm just saying, spontanious sex with the wifey on the couch should probably be given some thought with a 720 watching your ass. ^^
Bolded for insider info. I didn't know you worked for MS and could disseminate that information before it was confirmed. That's awesome, tell me more and please link it!
Your 360 is not "always on" in the way that we speak of "always on". You can't turn it on from a remote location, it can't receive network data when it's off (you can confirm this by looking at your router) and it's not running other than being plugged in the power source waiting for the "turn on" command.
Funny last comment though :)
This is as easily fixed as that damn clock thing on the VCR...
Confirmed by Epic Games, Microsoft supporting Free 2 Play and in-game purchases
Sony and Microsoft are telling developers they're "going heavily" on free-to-play and in-app purchasing models with their next-gen consoles, according to Epic Games VP Mark Rein. Speaking in a roundtable discussion at the UK's Game Horizon conference, Rein said both companies will take on the kinds of financial models seen on mobile devices.
"The next-gen consoles are going to be fully embracing the free-to-play and these IAP-type business models," Rein told the audience, "So in case you don't know that I'm putting that out there. Sony and Microsoft are both going heavily in that area."
Roundtable chair Matt Martin of GamesIndustry International said that's what both platform holders are saying, but that "we still need to see some kind of evidence."
Rein replied, "Well, I'm telling you. I'm telling you what they're telling developers."
After May 21st drops, is 2o2p going to do comparison between the PS4 and New Xbox? Maybe a simple checklist. I actually read this thread a good bit because all of you have some really cool insights / rumour mill stuff. KEEP IT UP for us uninformed gamers.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2013/05/06/neither-sony-playsta...
According to video game analyst Michael Pachter from Wedbush Securities, neither of the next generation consoles that are launching this fall will block used game sales. Both Sony’s PlayStation 4 and the next Xbox from Microsoft will offer disc-based and downloadable game content, but neither console will follow through with the controversial DRM issues that have enraged passionate gamers with the recent PC game launches of Electronic Arts’ SimCity and (to a lesser extent) Blizzard Entertainment’s Diablo 3.
“I don’t think Microsoft has the balls to block used games, and I want you to quote me on that,” said Pachter. “Microsoft would alienate 30 percent of their audience by doing that and Sony would step in and exploit that by saying, ‘We’re not blocking used games.’”
Good find. I really hope that this is true, as it would effectively end my console gaming forever. The rumor of no backward compatibility bothers me almost just as much though. True I have a 360, but there's only so much shelf space, HDMI ports not to mention the longevity of the older system itself.
stungun you bring up a good point although you might not have realized you did it. Microsoft and Sony will have to market the strengths of their console that the other one lacks.
Sony announced their console in February, and Microsoft bided their time to get great timing 3 weeks before E3. Check this out though - Microsoft has that timespan from February to May to adapt what they are going to say to counter Sony.
While they can't just go and make sweeping hardware or software changes, they can easily place additional emphasis in the announcement on things Xbox does that PS4 doesn't do.
Things to watch for based on that on May 21st:
However, Microsoft will probably unveil completely new offerings that Sony won't, but they won't pass those off as the other companies shortcomings.
Things like HDTV integration, new Kinect 3D rendering (Fusion - the tech to take a real 3D object and scan it with Kinect) will be interesting.
They'll probably show how their Smartglass any device software has evolved, and make not that its been around for a while now (before PS4+Vita game streaming namely).
One thing that is tricky here is Microsoft has to show it's a console for gamers, while at the same time showing that it does all the gaming a PS4 does PLUS offers all sorts of features like the interactive TV. Their long term strategy for several years "input one" has been focused on getting Xbox to be the only device needed. Taking over the livingroom. The thought they want people to have then is "Why buy this other console, when Xbox does all that and more?" The trick then is to make core gamers interested while offering the new features that aren't strictly game related.
I did read an article today that Sony's 2 hour reveal had almost two dozen people take the stage. None of them were women.
Sony was definitely positioning the PS4 as a gaming console. Very much the message during their reveal. However, in my opinion of course, the most interesting games shown were indie titles. That's good considering their push for indie developer support, but not so good when compared to the actual AAA titles that were more about graphics. We've heard gamplay over graphics quite often as gamers, but that wasn't what Sony had said with its reveal. The racing game with team based action could be cool, but a lot of presentation was about how good the threadcount was in the seat you'll never see while actually racing.
I'm sure Microsoft will make clear they won't require the Internet for games to function, and that used games can play. They'll probably drop the used games part during the backwards compatibility part to make it seem less like they're shutting down a rumor.
One thing I want to mention is that due to the close proximity of E3 Microsoft will have to split its message a bit in order to not take the wind out of their own sails at the E3 opening. I'm sure they'll want to talk about hardware more at the 21st than E3 because that allows for more game reveals at E3. What I'm really wondering is if they'll drop surprise game/dev announcements at all at the 21st, or perhaps if they'll even announce more than one. Depending on how much they have to say for exclusive deals, I would think 2 big deals announced on the 21st to be ideal. Talk hardware, gaming including developers, connectivity and TV, and Smartglass.
I just think it'd be advantageous to save most game reveals for E3 to really get gamers going, while deflating Sony's program just a few hours later. With the media coverage, they'll want to mention the new features for the system itself a bit there too.
So I won't be surprised at all if nearly all of the 21st is about the system, showing the actual console, its capabilities, services and deals there, and just a dash of game devs to speak.
Price I'd think would come at E3. Especially if they are planning a lower one than most have been thinking - it'd be the prime time to hurt their competitor since it's just 3 or 4 hours before Sony would speak.
Anyways, I've written enough for now. MSFT is looking to break out of its decade long sideways rut, so things to do. Bring some more speculation, it's fun to read.
I do not think back compat is really that big of a deal. The 360 only supported a fraction of games for back compat and even then had issues with some of them. So I do not think you will have a huge population of "No back compat no sale" camps. Now if for some reason if people cannot play MP games while using different systems, then that might be an issue. For example if Ghosts mp only allows 360 players to play against 360 players and Nextbox players against Nextbox players. I would assume that is not the case...at least I hope it is not the case.
As far as worrying about being back compat and not having enough inputs, you can get a 4x1 hdmi switch for 25 bucks with tax and shipping. So that really sould not be an issue.
Just saw this and found it funny and slightly relevant to our little discussion.
http://youtu.be/jZAwUpjQTSs
I don't mind disc backwards compat not being there AS MUCH as XBLA games not working. They're fully digital and should run on the new box with slight tweaks. If all your money spent on non-sellable XBLA games was just gone, that would piss me off.
I can get on board with that.
Sorry I haven't read every single line, but did they say if our $130 Kinect will work with the new box?
$130? you got ripped off. There will be a Kinect 2 bundled with each Nextbox, so you can take your pitiful Kinect 1 and get $20 for it.
It was $130 with two games. But fuck that man that piece of junk has only been out like two years and no games worth playing have ever come out. Now they expect us to pay up for another piece of crap accesory so my daughters can play a dance game? FUCk M$.
Kinect 2 will come bundled with every X-Box from the go.
Shadow, the XBLA games will hopefully work, but it isn't so easy. If they include a 360 in the new Xbox as a System on a Chip, then arcade and full games should work. However, because of the architecture being different this time, things aren't a quick port.
Backwards compatibility is a nice feature that most people wouldn't mind having, but obviously isn't a requirement. It's nice on Microsoft's end as well because if people can trade in the 360 for a new Xbox then Microsoft just got a new Xbox into someone's house, including the new online ecosystem offerings and new games/accessories that go with it. It's benificial on both ends, but not required.
Kinect is a good point. There were all sorts of rumors about the 2.0, including official Microsoft leaks. One had the new version being two seperate devices which is very different than the current Kinect. Illumiroom and Fusion both show a device that looks just like the current Kinect in use though, so there is that.
I suppose if the new Xbox is backwards compatibile with games and online items, then the Kinect would be treated like any 360 hardware and traded in or sold. What else to do with controllers, headsets, the system itself, chatpads etc.? One Kinect bothers me a lot less than the 8 or so controllers I've bought over the years :P
It is a requirement for some of us. I'm sorry but it's not a big trick to make the new console backward compatible. After how many 360's I purchased due to the build problems and cash I have invested into Microsoft it's just another slap in the face to the consumer not to add the feature.
I don't see the big deal about getting things to run on backward compat - games do PC/Mac ports all the time. Linux/DOS are not the same thing yet they seem to port over.
Some game's can't be run natively even between versions of Windows.
Truthfully, it takes extra work for a developer to make their game run on Windows, and Mac. Some games even stop supporting Mac after a while, such as EVE, because of this extra work. Now if you have an entire library of games on a console that built up over half a decade, across a wide range of developers some of which aren't even around anymore, who is going to do the extra work for every game to bring them over?
That's why it's not so easy :)
It’s probably a weak investment. Cost something to do the port. How many new copies of Barbie’s Great Horse Adventure would need to be sold to recoup the cost of the port? The industry would rather focus on new content with a fresh 12-18 month DLC stream than spend any money on a 5 year old game with extremely limited revenue potential. Plus it ties back into the used games issue. Going backwards mostly supports already played games.
Backwards Compatibility: Don't care, I want new games with the best possible graphics and lots more content (DLC or otherwise). Huge expansive worlds to explore with stunning visuals and epic new gameplay experiences. I don't want a shiny new machine that I have spent hundreds of dollars on so i can throw Forza 2 or Ghost Recon into it. I'd keep the old system if I want to play old games. (I will be keeping my 360... At least for a little while)
Always On-Line: Okay, fine. I'm always on-line anyway. Sure, some people have connection issues or lack of service altogether. I'm guessing that those conditions and availability will improve over time. It's great to see what my friends are up to and maybe join them in some game play for a while. I can hardly remember what gaming was like before that.
I am excited about 5/21. I was impressed by SONY's press conference. They had some great ideas that they will be implementing and can't wait to see how MS will respond.
^^ hell yeah to all of that. Though I wouldn't mind being able to toss in an old Halo game sometimes.
Im not too worried about the backwards issue. I will be bumming if/when they announce GTA V will be 360 only although:( Otherwise like the rumored Forza 5 and COD:Ghosts are already slated for Next gen so that should keep me busy for a while. I'm with Snappy with this one. Give me new, awesome enviroments to conquer! Give me bullets that grow into dragons and devour my opponents.
I'm not going to get the next gen console of either company. I'm barely playing the 360 as it is anymore... just some RB and Pinball2 mostly. I turned to PC last year exploring services like Steam and Origin and am pretty happy with that. I'm not a graphics-junkie anyway. I'll play a 8-bit game in an emulator if it's fun enough, so yeah...
And even my PC-gaming is in danger as my 1gig Nvidia card is rapidly becoming obsolete and 4gig sysmem is a fucking joke nowadays. I'll be hard-pressed to be able to play new games by christmas this year as it is... and 2014 will most certainly scrap my rig.
As it stands... MS can keep their new fangled doodad. I'm not interested at all.
way to add to the conversation Cat. "I don't care, everything sucks, goodbye"
LOL
Lol Shadow,
Forgive me, I didn't know that this is a 'only one point of view is viable'-discussion. ^^
Seriously though, as you undoubtedly know, your 360 is always on. Even when you shut it down. That means that your Kinect is always on too. The 720 comes with a mandatory kinect, which you need to even be able to operate the 720.
I'm just saying, spontanious sex with the wifey on the couch should probably be given some thought with a 720 watching your ass. ^^
Bolded for insider info. I didn't know you worked for MS and could disseminate that information before it was confirmed. That's awesome, tell me more and please link it!
Your 360 is not "always on" in the way that we speak of "always on". You can't turn it on from a remote location, it can't receive network data when it's off (you can confirm this by looking at your router) and it's not running other than being plugged in the power source waiting for the "turn on" command.
Funny last comment though :)
This is as easily fixed as that damn clock thing on the VCR...
electrical tape, black most often preferred...
Alternatively, one could unplug it.
Confirmed by Epic Games, Microsoft supporting Free 2 Play and in-game purchases
http://www.joystiq.com/2013/05/09/sony-microsoft-going-heavily-on-free-t...
What's this Spontaneous sex you speak of?
Been old is crap.
You don't stop having sex because you're old, you grow old because you stopped having sex. -.-