Zero - That quote is part of the reason why i'm not trusting forza at the moment. Alot of focus was put into the graphics, not how much closer they are to putting you in the driving seat :)
Zero - That quote is part of the reason why i'm not trusting forza at the moment. Alot of focus was put into the graphics, not how much closer they are to putting you in the driving seat :)
Bingo. I remember that was a gripe w/ FM4...some of the bits they pulled out of FM3 in the interest of better graphics. I shall keep my eyes open, and reserve final judgement after it's been released.
Taking time to learn the system.........Hmmmmm......maybe they should wait for a bit after launch and learn the system and bit more? Too late, it's already been announced. Maybe Forza 6 will be the one that takes the cake of Forzas. Anyone ever think that they are using FM5 as a selling point? Look Look Look FM5 + XBONE!!!! Oh wait, did we forget to mention that we left a bunch of shit out? Why? We didn't know the system good enough and we were rushed to get it out at launch, oh and because we want to sell it to you as DLC (God forbid we give you the entire package upfront.) Porsche pack much? (I know they had issues with EA but they could have given it as an update rather than DLC, no extra money was spent to get it in the game, it was already coded in at launch). Im just kidding about the last half there, but im not kidding too. Seems to be the route to making gobs and gobs of money.
Quite the interview with Dan. Pretty much confirms that Turn 10 knows Forza is a "Simcade".
Originally Posted by IFCA Racing
Interviewer: Thank you for giving the Forza racing community some of your time today. I think I can safely say that this is welcome and exciting news to everyone on the racing side of the Forza franchise.
Dan: Oh, no problem, my pleasure.
- Interviewer: So, what took you so long? (laughing) I mean how is it that this may well be the first time you have directly addressed the Forza racing community in 5 iterations of the game?
Dan: (laughing) Uh, well, that’s not exactly the way we see it. We don’t give interviews to the leaders or fans of specific segments of our game as a rule. We haven’t given any interviews to just those in our painting community, or drifting community, which are arguably larger participation groups than what we have in our hardcore racing community. From my view as a game developer we don’t see the hard-line segregation or divisions that I know many in our community tend to see. So for example, we’ve never tried to dictate, guide, or limit what our fans want to do with Forza.
- Interviewer: Fair enough. So without a specific vision of what the Forza franchise should generally be, that is, without a specific direction from Turn 10, do you run the risk of being the Jack of all trades, and the master of none in the car simulation genre?
Dan: (laughing) Not at all. We see Forza as being the master of everything offered by any simulation car game available anywhere, whether on a console or PC. Forza stands alone in our opinion because it offers so much more at such a higher level than anything else out there.
- Interviewer: I see. Your critics say, that Turn 10 studios, and you specifically, do not entertain those who would be critical of Forza. Going through the records we couldn’t find any hard hitting interviews that offered any constructive criticism of the game before during or after a new release. Is there a reason why you don’t want to address your critics, and would you mind if we took a few shots at you?
Dan: (laughing) I give interviews to every accredited press person I can find in our industry, and I think they do their best to squeeze every morsel of new information out of me they can. You know, the subject matter is, you know, that of a game, it’s not politics or anything; it’s about fun, fun in any of the many ways that you the gamer see fit. So, you’re not usually going to have a lot of tough interviews about having fun I don’t think. So, yeah, go ahead, give me your best shot, or (laughing) shots.
- Interviewer: Thanks, we appreciate a gamer who has some game. Considering the intensity of the Forza racing community and racing fans in general, and the success of your competitors Gran Turismo 5 and iRacing, with their heavy emphasis on racing, why doesn’t FM5 follow suit? What is it about the popularity of dedicated simulation racing that you don’t like to try to compete with?
Dan: That’s a rather odd question from my point of view, and here’s why. We really do feel that we’ve covered the bases not just with racing but all aspects of car culture. So, it’s very hard to compare our product to any of the others when they don’t rise to our same level of options and playability. It’s sort of like trying to compare apples to oranges I guess.
- Interviewer: So are you saying that there is no room for improvements in the way Forza races, no reason to consider the advances and popularity of your competitors?
Dan:No, we do take a look at what others are doing; it’s just that we prefer a more balanced and broader approach to the genre. We just don’t see Forza as a hardcore narrowly focused simulation racer; we are much more than this.
- Interviewer: So what do you say to people who see Forza as simulation-lite, and lacking many of the most basic racing functions and features?
Dan: Well, everyone has their opinions of course, and that’s really part of what Forza is all about. It’s about creating those opinions, which serve to fuel the passion of the genre. I’m not really aware of any basic racing features or options absent from Forza. Can you name some?
- Interviewer: Sure, simulated pit stops, tire wear, fuel consumption, damage repairs, flag system, pace car, live tree for drag racing, to name a few.
Dan: Um, I think we do have most of those features in some form. You know, it’s one of those things where we’d like to have every good idea there is, but we have to draw lines too, otherwise we might take 5 years to produce the next version.
- Interviewer: Is that a shot at Polyphony?
Dan: I’m just sayin.
- Interviewer: Speaking of Polyphony and Kazunori Yamauchi’s Gran Turismo, what do you think of his efforts to blur the line between simulation racers and real racers with their wildly popular GT Acadamy contests, and would you ever be willing or interested in doing something similar?
Dan: It’s an interesting effort, and to be honest one that never crossed our minds. I don’t know that we would ever be attracted to doing something like that now that it has already been done.
- Interviewer: What is your personal opinion of GT5?
Dan: Oh, I think it is a very good game. I’m a fan of the series. It is why I got into this business.
- Interviewer: Do you think the feeling is mutual with Kazunori?
Dan: I assume so.
- Interviewer: Getting back to the lack of racing features in Forza, will you be updating or adding them to FM5?
Dan: Um, (laughing) I don’t agree with your premise. Forza has all or most of the racing features you mentioned.
- Interviewer: Not exactly. Yes, you do have pit stops, but they are computer controlled. You have tire wear, but without significant degradation. You have fuel consumption, but just barely, as though every car no matter the power or use of that power gets the same ridiculous mpg. You have damage repair, but only mechanical, and not on the aerodynamics. You have a drag tree, but it doesn’t actually function.
Dan: Fair points, but, but again, Forza (and Forza 5 in particular) offers so much more than these rather minor details and concerns from our niche brothers and sisters on the racing side of Forza life. We feel that the true source of Forza entertainment comes from its overall execution and the emotional connection derived from its unparalleled immersive content. I feel that any details that are allegedly missing are far outweighed by our cutting edge graphics and physics. But it’s not just these critical aspects; it’s also (in the case of FM5) the new power of the Cloud that places us on an entirely new plateau beyond anything anyone has out there. So, I think we can be forgiven if we don’t have every feature under the sun.
- Interviewer: Well, speaking for the racers, we don’t really feel you have gone all out, or the extra mile when it comes to the racing features in Forza. The general opinion is that you did just enough to get by so that you can say you have this or that feature, but often totally lacking full functionality. Is this a limitation of the Microsoft hardware, architecture, or software, or is it a lack of racing experience and culture?
Dan: Okay then, tell me how you really feel! (laughing) Seriously, we could make a hardcore race sim, but that’s not what got us here. We can’t take the path that others with less success take; we have to forge our own path. And as much as we try to be everything to everyone whether they are a car guy or not, we can only go so deep with any single feature if you know what I mean.
- Interviewer: Yes, I think I do. This is sort of the problem from the sim-racer point of view; and that is Forza isn’t precisely sure what it wants to be. It seems to have strayed far and wide from its original concept back in the day when everyone was quite sure that Forza was a racing simulator not unlike Gran Turismo. By not staying on point or with the original theme over the years, we’ve seen improvements in graphics, physics, GUI, and all sorts of non-racing innovations like the livery editor and auction house features, but very little actual improvements to the racing experience itself. Can you explain this?
Dan: Probably not to the satisfaction of the hardcore racers.
- Interviewer: Well let me ask you this then, will racing ever become the preeminent attribute of Forza in the future? Will you ever return to your roots and make simulation racing the reason for Forza again?
Dan:If you’re asking will we ever make a hardcore simulation racer, the answer is no. If you’re asking will we try to attract more people to racing by blending gaming with racing, the answer is yes.
- Interviewer: Dan, I see our time is up, and I want thank you for this extended and rather unprecedented interview. I know I was a little tough on you, but you know how the racing community is. We may be your most passionate fans.
Dan: Oh I know. We take more heat from our hardcore racers than any other segment.
- Interviewer: That being said, maybe you could cool the fires and offer the hardcore racers a little something extra this time around.
Dan: We always try to.
- Interviewer: Well, again thanks for your time, and we will be watching.
Quite the interview with Dan. Pretty much confirms that Turn 10 knows Forza is a "Simcade".
Originally Posted by IFCA Racing
Interviewer: Thank you for giving the Forza racing community some of your time today. I think I can safely say that this is welcome and exciting news to everyone on the racing side of the Forza franchise.
Dan: Oh, no problem, my pleasure.
- Interviewer: So, what took you so long? (laughing) I mean how is it that this may well be the first time you have directly addressed the Forza racing community in 5 iterations of the game?
Dan: (laughing) Uh, well, that’s not exactly the way we see it. We don’t give interviews to the leaders or fans of specific segments of our game as a rule. We haven’t given any interviews to just those in our painting community, or drifting community, which are arguably larger participation groups than what we have in our hardcore racing community. From my view as a game developer we don’t see the hard-line segregation or divisions that I know many in our community tend to see. So for example, we’ve never tried to dictate, guide, or limit what our fans want to do with Forza.
- Interviewer: Fair enough. So without a specific vision of what the Forza franchise should generally be, that is, without a specific direction from Turn 10, do you run the risk of being the Jack of all trades, and the master of none in the car simulation genre?
Dan: (laughing) Not at all. We see Forza as being the master of everything offered by any simulation car game available anywhere, whether on a console or PC. Forza stands alone in our opinion because it offers so much more at such a higher level than anything else out there.
- Interviewer: I see. Your critics say, that Turn 10 studios, and you specifically, do not entertain those who would be critical of Forza. Going through the records we couldn’t find any hard hitting interviews that offered any constructive criticism of the game before during or after a new release. Is there a reason why you don’t want to address your critics, and would you mind if we took a few shots at you?
Dan: (laughing) I give interviews to every accredited press person I can find in our industry, and I think they do their best to squeeze every morsel of new information out of me they can. You know, the subject matter is, you know, that of a game, it’s not politics or anything; it’s about fun, fun in any of the many ways that you the gamer see fit. So, you’re not usually going to have a lot of tough interviews about having fun I don’t think. So, yeah, go ahead, give me your best shot, or (laughing) shots.
- Interviewer: Thanks, we appreciate a gamer who has some game. Considering the intensity of the Forza racing community and racing fans in general, and the success of your competitors Gran Turismo 5 and iRacing, with their heavy emphasis on racing, why doesn’t FM5 follow suit? What is it about the popularity of dedicated simulation racing that you don’t like to try to compete with?
Dan: That’s a rather odd question from my point of view, and here’s why. We really do feel that we’ve covered the bases not just with racing but all aspects of car culture. So, it’s very hard to compare our product to any of the others when they don’t rise to our same level of options and playability. It’s sort of like trying to compare apples to oranges I guess.
- Interviewer: So are you saying that there is no room for improvements in the way Forza races, no reason to consider the advances and popularity of your competitors?
Dan:No, we do take a look at what others are doing; it’s just that we prefer a more balanced and broader approach to the genre. We just don’t see Forza as a hardcore narrowly focused simulation racer; we are much more than this.
- Interviewer: So what do you say to people who see Forza as simulation-lite, and lacking many of the most basic racing functions and features?
Dan: Well, everyone has their opinions of course, and that’s really part of what Forza is all about. It’s about creating those opinions, which serve to fuel the passion of the genre. I’m not really aware of any basic racing features or options absent from Forza. Can you name some?
- Interviewer: Sure, simulated pit stops, tire wear, fuel consumption, damage repairs, flag system, pace car, live tree for drag racing, to name a few.
Dan: Um, I think we do have most of those features in some form. You know, it’s one of those things where we’d like to have every good idea there is, but we have to draw lines too, otherwise we might take 5 years to produce the next version.
- Interviewer: Is that a shot at Polyphony?
Dan: I’m just sayin.
- Interviewer: Speaking of Polyphony and Kazunori Yamauchi’s Gran Turismo, what do you think of his efforts to blur the line between simulation racers and real racers with their wildly popular GT Acadamy contests, and would you ever be willing or interested in doing something similar?
Dan: It’s an interesting effort, and to be honest one that never crossed our minds. I don’t know that we would ever be attracted to doing something like that now that it has already been done.
- Interviewer: What is your personal opinion of GT5?
Dan: Oh, I think it is a very good game. I’m a fan of the series. It is why I got into this business.
- Interviewer: Do you think the feeling is mutual with Kazunori?
Dan: I assume so.
- Interviewer: Getting back to the lack of racing features in Forza, will you be updating or adding them to FM5?
Dan: Um, (laughing) I don’t agree with your premise. Forza has all or most of the racing features you mentioned.
- Interviewer: Not exactly. Yes, you do have pit stops, but they are computer controlled. You have tire wear, but without significant degradation. You have fuel consumption, but just barely, as though every car no matter the power or use of that power gets the same ridiculous mpg. You have damage repair, but only mechanical, and not on the aerodynamics. You have a drag tree, but it doesn’t actually function.
Dan: Fair points, but, but again, Forza (and Forza 5 in particular) offers so much more than these rather minor details and concerns from our niche brothers and sisters on the racing side of Forza life. We feel that the true source of Forza entertainment comes from its overall execution and the emotional connection derived from its unparalleled immersive content. I feel that any details that are allegedly missing are far outweighed by our cutting edge graphics and physics. But it’s not just these critical aspects; it’s also (in the case of FM5) the new power of the Cloud that places us on an entirely new plateau beyond anything anyone has out there. So, I think we can be forgiven if we don’t have every feature under the sun.
- Interviewer: Well, speaking for the racers, we don’t really feel you have gone all out, or the extra mile when it comes to the racing features in Forza. The general opinion is that you did just enough to get by so that you can say you have this or that feature, but often totally lacking full functionality. Is this a limitation of the Microsoft hardware, architecture, or software, or is it a lack of racing experience and culture?
Dan: Okay then, tell me how you really feel! (laughing) Seriously, we could make a hardcore race sim, but that’s not what got us here. We can’t take the path that others with less success take; we have to forge our own path. And as much as we try to be everything to everyone whether they are a car guy or not, we can only go so deep with any single feature if you know what I mean.
- Interviewer: Yes, I think I do. This is sort of the problem from the sim-racer point of view; and that is Forza isn’t precisely sure what it wants to be. It seems to have strayed far and wide from its original concept back in the day when everyone was quite sure that Forza was a racing simulator not unlike Gran Turismo. By not staying on point or with the original theme over the years, we’ve seen improvements in graphics, physics, GUI, and all sorts of non-racing innovations like the livery editor and auction house features, but very little actual improvements to the racing experience itself. Can you explain this?
Dan: Probably not to the satisfaction of the hardcore racers.
- Interviewer: Well let me ask you this then, will racing ever become the preeminent attribute of Forza in the future? Will you ever return to your roots and make simulation racing the reason for Forza again?
Dan:If you’re asking will we ever make a hardcore simulation racer, the answer is no. If you’re asking will we try to attract more people to racing by blending gaming with racing, the answer is yes.
- Interviewer: Dan, I see our time is up, and I want thank you for this extended and rather unprecedented interview. I know I was a little tough on you, but you know how the racing community is. We may be your most passionate fans.
Dan: Oh I know. We take more heat from our hardcore racers than any other segment.
- Interviewer: That being said, maybe you could cool the fires and offer the hardcore racers a little something extra this time around.
Dan: We always try to.
- Interviewer: Well, again thanks for your time, and we will be watching.
I don't get too bent out of shap about it. The thing is if it is a GAME then that is what it is. There is no simulator in the world that is going to duplicate the REAL thing. Doesn't matter how hard you try.
That's why I have never understood why some are so "uppity" about "SIM" racers. It's still just a game dude
Great interview. I have not finished reading it, but I already have a couple of thoughts.
First, Dan is correct with regard to breadth of content. Forza and GT are far and away the leaders with regard to content, particularly cars. The PC and other console sims simply cannot compete in this area. Forza and GT also have the best fantasy track choices on the market. There are the two primary reasons I keep coming back to Forza and GT, years after their release. I love driving new cars on Maple Valley, Camino Viejo, Cape Ring, Grand Valley, Deep Forest and the many other awesome fantasy tracks. Forza 5 will be even better. That Prague track looks frickin amazing.
Second, Dan is overstating the cloud feature as "new." Its not new, EA is doing it with its mobile racing game, Real Racing 3. I am confident Forza's will be an enhancement, but to say its new is exaggeration.
Oh man, I have to read it again but my first impression is that it was a poor interview. He pressed him but not very into an specifics about what new features there may be . Also, it was a very short interview. Almost tactically short.
We all know T10 (Dan in particular) play their cards very close to the vest and take great joy in creating lots of suspense and buzz around anything they do. Just think back to the monthly car packs: lots of clues and guessing games and threads where they gifted out unicorn cars if you guessed a car correctly. To me it was totally annoying. Same type of thing with the Porsche Pack. Two car reveals a day for two weeks. most of which we had in FM3. Just tell me what they are!!
Its going to be the same shit this time. A five month build up with slow reveals of what tracks, cars and new little features will be in this version. My hope is that we learn some info about some of those "minor details", as Dan puts it. If they are so minor why shouldn't they be added? Is the community that focuses on racing so small and un influential?
rFactor's Motto - Control. Customize. Connect. It's ultimately what I feel Forza is missing. Sure, the Connect part is there but we lack some key Customize features. Still a great game and I'm sticking with it but the suspense is killing me.
Now, with that being said, I do believe we will see some new real world tracks in this game. Will Spa be one of them? Or Bathurst? I hope so but who knows. See what I mean? Why not tell us? No other title that I know of does this to its loyal fans...
Sorry for the rant.
Edit: why didn't the interviewer ask about features of the Xbone that could be exploited to enhance gameplay in FM5? Like allowing other gamers take control of your game from their Xbone. Therefore opening team racing via sharing a car. It was rumored but with all of the hoopla over the DRM stuff it has been lost in the shuffle. Frustrating.
Edit: why didn't the interviewer ask about features of the Xbone that could be exploited to enhance gameplay in FM5? Like allowing other gamers take control of your game from their Xbone. Therefore opening team racing via sharing a car. It was rumored but with all of the hoopla over the DRM stuff it has been lost in the shuffle. Frustrating.
If the hardcore racing group is as small as he insinuates, swapping a driver for an endurance race is going to be waaaay down his list...
Good interview and confirms what I have figured out for myself about Forza over the last few years. First of all, I have nothing against any of the Forza games. I have completed every Forza game to date and played all of them with Fanatec wheels including Forza 1 on the original Xbox. They have all been great games and I have wasted countless thousands of hours of my life playing them and don't regret any of it.
But in the past year, I was just looking for a little more simulation in my sim racing experience. That is why I made the switch to PC racing. I still have many great memories racing with a great bunch of guys here at 2O4F and still consider you my friends. I'm sorry I can't race with you on Forza anymore, my new wheel isn't even compatible and there is no way I would ever attempt to race with a controller. I would only be a slow moving road block.
Like Dan said, T10 prefers a more balanced and broader approach to the genre. But I have become one of the hardcore racers that Dan says he won't be able to fully please. I don't have a problem with that. He is in the business to make money and sell games. According to VGChartz, Forza 4 has sold nearly 4 million copies world wide so T10 must be doing something right. iRacing boasts in their advertising that they have over 40,000 members, but whenever you log onto their service it shows you the number of iRacers online and it rarely goes over 3000. So the hardcore sim racers who want the most realistic racing possible is a very small segment indeed and T10 would be foolish to put all of their resources into making Forza a true sim racer.
For me, I don't see Forza 5 or the XBone in my future. But for those that are planning to get it, I'm sure it will continue to provide many hours of fun just like the previous editions have. And the community you have here at 2O4F will continue on and keep getting the most of it. The thing I miss the most about console racing was the great community I found here at 2O4F. Races became a social event. It wasn't always so serious, we could laugh, have fun, even bump into each other some times. Don't try that on iRacing, some of those guys are way too serious. You would think they actually paid the full retail price for the cars they are racing the way they treat it. Some of them forget that it is still a game.
So keep having fun with Forza 4 and carry that over to Forza 5. If any of you ever want to check out iRacing, let me know. I can help you get out of the rookie races and help you with setups and advice if you want to move up in license classes. I still check the forum at least weekly, so please don't delete my account here. Most of all, have fun with whatever game you get your racing fix from.
Well put Troy and that’s the mature way to look at this; Turn 10 has a fantastic game here but SIM racers haven’t been their focus since FM2, it is what it is.
Snappy – I believe the interviewer was set out on one goal and one goal only and that was to push Dan into telling us exactly what Turn10 is doing with FM5 in relation to SIM racing features and he was never letting Dan go off on a tangent. Almost as if he wanted Dan to admit they’ve given up on us which he almost accomplished. Spa? Bathhurst? You’re joking right?
I think the interviews gives me enough of a decision, the guys being honest. He openly admits that forza is focused on the masses, and fun for the masses. The game is perfect for those masses that don't want to venture into hardcore sim racing. They don't have the expectations we have with regards to handling, pitstops and general racing structures. I can only hope that my decision to go to GT5 will be more rewarding racing.
I think Parcells is right, forza had its day in fm2. :)
i think that turn10 forgets that its the hardcore whether its racers,painters or drifters are the ONLY people with the game in the drive after the first 3 months, we are one who line their pockets with the DLC not the casual players, so make the game accessible for the casual gamer sure go ahead but dont forget who will still be playing the game after a year.
i think that turn10 forgets that its the hardcore whether its racers,painters or drifters are the ONLY people with the game in the drive after the first 3 months, we are one who line their pockets with the DLC not the casual players, so make the game accessible for the casual gamer sure go ahead but dont forget who will still be playing the game after a year.
They don't sell DLC just for us hardcore guys. In fact, they lose money on guys like us. Think of it this way, Gizzie, how many hours have you spent playing Forza 4? Compare that to the full cost, perhaps $120, with all DLC purchases? That is a pretty low cost per hour of use, yet you are still consuming their services. Yes, they will pay lip service to us, but the reality is that they make their money on the casual controller user, who by the way, does buy at least some DLC. By the time the casual guy tires of the game less than a year after release, the DLC stops, but there is a Horizon to look forward to and another round of game and DLC purchases.
GT5 has taken a completely different strategy. That game still has legs even though it's been 2 1/2 years since it was released. PD is clearly rewarding its hardcore users with weekly seasonal events that are quite challenging.
So am I the only one who thinks FM4 had been the best one yet :)
TBh the reason I love Forza so much is because of the people here who race on the track with me.
It's not the pits and all that crap that would get me playing more. It's been 10ft off Gizzies rear bumper for 10 laps thats the stuff that gets my heart going.
We have night races, rain effects full pits etc over at 2old2race and do we use them?
No because after the first time you realize it's just a gimmick.
Can you imagine having a close race at night in the wet? Yeah for 30 seconds until everyone crashes. Don't forget a lot of us here struggle enough with perfect clear tracks nevermind making it almost impossible for a vet to finish a race.
And thats the reason why they dont have all these features. This place would be very very quite if we had full Sim with Wets and night races. etc.
Thats why this place is called 2Old4Forza ;) (Simcade)
There is 2Old2Race or GoneBrokeRacing for hardcore sim racing though Just hop you have a Wheel because let me tell you traying to play rFactor, iRacing, Race 07 etc is the hardest thing I have ever done with a joy pad
Rant over.
Oh yeah and Spa is in the game. Did none see the pics in the previous pages? (SPA I tell you!)
So am I the only one who thinks FM4 had been the best one yet :)
TBh the reason I love Forza so much is because of the people here who race on the track with me.
It's not the pits and all that crap that would get me playing more. It's been 10ft off Gizzies rear bumper for 10 laps thats the stuff that gets my heart going.
We have night races, rain effects full pits etc over at 2old2race and do we use them?
No because after the first time you realize it's just a gimmick.
Can you imagine having a close race at night in the wet? Yeah for 30 seconds until everyone crashes. Don't forget a lot of us here struggle enough with perfect clear tracks nevermind making it almost impossible for a vet to finish a race.
Rant over.
Oh yeah and Spa is in the game. Did none see the pics in the previous pages? (SPA I tell you!)
Most of this I agree with, shockingly enough. I have had more fun in Fm4 than I did 3, and it's because you all drug me out of the paintbooth and out on the track and showed me how to drive a bit. And I'm still getting better. it's been noticeable the last month or so.
Gizzie and I have a couple amazing passes last night on the Ring. It was great.
IF SPA is in Fm5, they'll make a huge reveal of it!
So am I the only one who thinks FM4 had been the best one yet :)
TBh the reason I love Forza so much is because of the people here who race on the track with me.
It's not the pits and all that crap that would get me playing more. It's been 10ft off Gizzies rear bumper for 10 laps thats the stuff that gets my heart going.
We have night races, rain effects full pits etc over at 2old2race and do we use them?
No because after the first time you realize it's just a gimmick.
Can you imagine having a close race at night in the wet? Yeah for 30 seconds until everyone crashes. Don't forget a lot of us here struggle enough with perfect clear tracks nevermind making it almost impossible for a vet to finish a race.
Rant over.
Oh yeah and Spa is in the game. Did none see the pics in the previous pages? (SPA I tell you!)
Most of this I agree with, shockingly enough. I have had more fun in Fm4 than I did 3, and it's because you all drug me out of the paintbooth and out on the track and showed me how to drive a bit. And I'm still getting better. it's been noticeable the last month or so.
Gizzie and I have a couple amazing passes last night on the Ring. It was great.
IF SPA is in Fm5, they'll make a huge reveal of it!
I also agree that Forza 4 was the best yet. It had the most tracks, plus they polished up the tracks they carried over from Forza 3. The cockpit interiors look the best ever, and there is a ton of cars.
Church, If people can't use common sense to keep tone it down when the weather conditions allow, then thats their own fault :)
I don't have problem driving with people, because i give them space when its required, endurance races are the same. So i wouldn't say its a problem with the game, it just has to be used in the right way.
Church, If people can't use common sense to keep tone it down when the weather conditions allow, then thats their own fault :)
I don't have problem driving with people, because i give them space when its required, endurance races are the same. So i wouldn't say its a problem with the game, it just has to be used in the right way.
It's not about giving people room etc its about basic car placement and control. I don't think for one second any crash in an event is intentional here but a lot still happen because we are not pros running everyday. So making it extremely hard won't help lol.
Personally have found 4 the best so far. Ran a few laps in 2 recently - it was OK, but not as good IMO.
I'm fine with Forza being simcade. I do think that adding a few pit options and especially the aero damage nonsense can't be that hard. Surely also simple to provide tyre wear and fuel consumption options.
Still, all I really want is for the fecking fanatecs to work. Have I said that enough times?
I'll get my coat.
PS - replaced my dead fm4 disc this afternoon so I'm a happy bunny now.
All excellent points in here but just to be clear, here is what I am saying:
I like Forza's physics. I have played other games both on PC and on other consoles (GT5). Maybe I'm crazy but I don't find them to be bad at all. I like them slightly better than GT5's and they are definitely better than any other console racer. To me Forza physics and sound are more...visceral where GT5 has a more clinical/technical feel to it. Good, but different. Like them both.
I also like this community. It gives Forza stronger purpose for me. Sharing paints and tunes. Creating and running a series. All that stuff.
the things I think Forza could use are simple. A few more variations that are not ground breaking and innovative stuff. Easy things for T10 to implement that don't require lots of effort. And stuff that they have had before. Dan readily admits that some things had to go to accommodate graphical updates. So, my thinking is that now that they have a box with tons more power PLUS the cloud computing aspect then they should be able to bring stuff back.
Who knows what T10 has in store for us but I know 4 years is a long ass time to work on a game. Add to that early access to dev kits. I'm still hopefull. We got a couple things that I posted in my OP. Open wheels cars and new paint finishes... Hopefully there will be more.
I like Forza's physics. I have played other games both on PC and on other consoles (GT5). Maybe I'm crazy but I don't find them to be bad at all. I like them slightly better than GT5's and they are definitely better than any other console racer. To me Forza physics and sound are more...visceral where GT5 has a more clinical/technical feel to it. Good, but different. Like them both.
Parcells can't speak to your sanity Snappy although I have strong suspicions you might be crazy I really hope its not because of the above sentiment as Parcells agrees with this almost 100%. The only thing I would change is I find GT5 physics slightly better then FM4 but it is such a fine line I could easily see people thinking just the opposite…the sound effects feedback of FM is way better then GT5 but I find the weight transfers and feeling of driving on the tarmac a little better in GT5.
Is FM4 better than FM3 or 2? Probably but when I or others speak to the downfall of FM since version 2 were mostly referring to how Turn10 keeps putting less and less effort into SIM racing features vs. adding features that would increase sales via appealing to the mass market.
And without question the game would not be half as good without you losers to enjoy it with. Did I say losers? I meant winners. Yeah that’s what I meant to say.
Although add I saidi was really looking forward to my first wet race. Right up to the point I realised I cannot see where I'm going and will have to go real slow to just stay on the track.
Here's my input:Thumbs up what Gizzie said, thumbs up what Church said, I agree with Lawyer, Snappy, and Poidsly, Oldschool is probably lying but I can't prove it, Tourni is not the boss of me, and although I just skimmed Parcells post, he probably should have kept whatever he said to himself.
One thing I will say about GT5 is that I don't like the career mode at all. I just feel like the license tests are too much. For someone who has played the series since the first GT why do players have to go through it every time. It gets to be such a grind. Not a huge deal, I know, but still annoying.
A little earlier each lap....until you don't pile it into the tires..gif "154")
Sounds good sherb :D
and oldschool, probably at that turn indicator you just passed..
Zero - That quote is part of the reason why i'm not trusting forza at the moment. Alot of focus was put into the graphics, not how much closer they are to putting you in the driving seat :)
Bingo. I remember that was a gripe w/ FM4...some of the bits they pulled out of FM3 in the interest of better graphics. I shall keep my eyes open, and reserve final judgement after it's been released.
Taking time to learn the system.........Hmmmmm......maybe they should wait for a bit after launch and learn the system and bit more? Too late, it's already been announced. Maybe Forza 6 will be the one that takes the cake of Forzas. Anyone ever think that they are using FM5 as a selling point? Look Look Look FM5 + XBONE!!!! Oh wait, did we forget to mention that we left a bunch of shit out? Why? We didn't know the system good enough and we were rushed to get it out at launch, oh and because we want to sell it to you as DLC (God forbid we give you the entire package upfront.) Porsche pack much? (I know they had issues with EA but they could have given it as an update rather than DLC, no extra money was spent to get it in the game, it was already coded in at launch). Im just kidding about the last half there, but im not kidding too. Seems to be the route to making gobs and gobs of money.
It's way early to expect so much bad stuff out of FM5.
Quite the interview with Dan. Pretty much confirms that Turn 10 knows Forza is a "Simcade".
That was kind of an awesome interview...thanks for sharing that, Burnt.
I don't get too bent out of shap about it. The thing is if it is a GAME then that is what it is. There is no simulator in the world that is going to duplicate the REAL thing. Doesn't matter how hard you try.
That's why I have never understood why some are so "uppity" about "SIM" racers. It's still just a game dude
Great interview. I have not finished reading it, but I already have a couple of thoughts.
First, Dan is correct with regard to breadth of content. Forza and GT are far and away the leaders with regard to content, particularly cars. The PC and other console sims simply cannot compete in this area. Forza and GT also have the best fantasy track choices on the market. There are the two primary reasons I keep coming back to Forza and GT, years after their release. I love driving new cars on Maple Valley, Camino Viejo, Cape Ring, Grand Valley, Deep Forest and the many other awesome fantasy tracks. Forza 5 will be even better. That Prague track looks frickin amazing.
Second, Dan is overstating the cloud feature as "new." Its not new, EA is doing it with its mobile racing game, Real Racing 3. I am confident Forza's will be an enhancement, but to say its new is exaggeration.
Great interview. Nothing new here.
Oh man, I have to read it again but my first impression is that it was a poor interview. He pressed him but not very into an specifics about what new features there may be . Also, it was a very short interview. Almost tactically short.
We all know T10 (Dan in particular) play their cards very close to the vest and take great joy in creating lots of suspense and buzz around anything they do. Just think back to the monthly car packs: lots of clues and guessing games and threads where they gifted out unicorn cars if you guessed a car correctly. To me it was totally annoying. Same type of thing with the Porsche Pack. Two car reveals a day for two weeks. most of which we had in FM3. Just tell me what they are!!
Its going to be the same shit this time. A five month build up with slow reveals of what tracks, cars and new little features will be in this version. My hope is that we learn some info about some of those "minor details", as Dan puts it. If they are so minor why shouldn't they be added? Is the community that focuses on racing so small and un influential?
rFactor's Motto - Control. Customize. Connect. It's ultimately what I feel Forza is missing. Sure, the Connect part is there but we lack some key Customize features. Still a great game and I'm sticking with it but the suspense is killing me.
Now, with that being said, I do believe we will see some new real world tracks in this game. Will Spa be one of them? Or Bathurst? I hope so but who knows. See what I mean? Why not tell us? No other title that I know of does this to its loyal fans...
Sorry for the rant.
Edit: why didn't the interviewer ask about features of the Xbone that could be exploited to enhance gameplay in FM5? Like allowing other gamers take control of your game from their Xbone. Therefore opening team racing via sharing a car. It was rumored but with all of the hoopla over the DRM stuff it has been lost in the shuffle. Frustrating.
Do they look at their own forum boards, which by format ARE segregated exactly as he CAN'T see???
I see many of Greenawalt's answers as deliberate miscommunication and/or avoidance. Repeatedly...
Good interview and confirms what I have figured out for myself about Forza over the last few years. First of all, I have nothing against any of the Forza games. I have completed every Forza game to date and played all of them with Fanatec wheels including Forza 1 on the original Xbox. They have all been great games and I have wasted countless thousands of hours of my life playing them and don't regret any of it.
But in the past year, I was just looking for a little more simulation in my sim racing experience. That is why I made the switch to PC racing. I still have many great memories racing with a great bunch of guys here at 2O4F and still consider you my friends. I'm sorry I can't race with you on Forza anymore, my new wheel isn't even compatible and there is no way I would ever attempt to race with a controller. I would only be a slow moving road block.
Like Dan said, T10 prefers a more balanced and broader approach to the genre. But I have become one of the hardcore racers that Dan says he won't be able to fully please. I don't have a problem with that. He is in the business to make money and sell games. According to VGChartz, Forza 4 has sold nearly 4 million copies world wide so T10 must be doing something right. iRacing boasts in their advertising that they have over 40,000 members, but whenever you log onto their service it shows you the number of iRacers online and it rarely goes over 3000. So the hardcore sim racers who want the most realistic racing possible is a very small segment indeed and T10 would be foolish to put all of their resources into making Forza a true sim racer.
For me, I don't see Forza 5 or the XBone in my future. But for those that are planning to get it, I'm sure it will continue to provide many hours of fun just like the previous editions have. And the community you have here at 2O4F will continue on and keep getting the most of it. The thing I miss the most about console racing was the great community I found here at 2O4F. Races became a social event. It wasn't always so serious, we could laugh, have fun, even bump into each other some times. Don't try that on iRacing, some of those guys are way too serious. You would think they actually paid the full retail price for the cars they are racing the way they treat it. Some of them forget that it is still a game.
So keep having fun with Forza 4 and carry that over to Forza 5. If any of you ever want to check out iRacing, let me know. I can help you get out of the rookie races and help you with setups and advice if you want to move up in license classes. I still check the forum at least weekly, so please don't delete my account here. Most of all, have fun with whatever game you get your racing fix from.
Well put Troy and that’s the mature way to look at this; Turn 10 has a fantastic game here but SIM racers haven’t been their focus since FM2, it is what it is.
Snappy – I believe the interviewer was set out on one goal and one goal only and that was to push Dan into telling us exactly what Turn10 is doing with FM5 in relation to SIM racing features and he was never letting Dan go off on a tangent. Almost as if he wanted Dan to admit they’ve given up on us which he almost accomplished. Spa? Bathhurst? You’re joking right?
I think the interviews gives me enough of a decision, the guys being honest. He openly admits that forza is focused on the masses, and fun for the masses. The game is perfect for those masses that don't want to venture into hardcore sim racing. They don't have the expectations we have with regards to handling, pitstops and general racing structures. I can only hope that my decision to go to GT5 will be more rewarding racing.
I think Parcells is right, forza had its day in fm2. :)
i think that turn10 forgets that its the hardcore whether its racers,painters or drifters are the ONLY people with the game in the drive after the first 3 months, we are one who line their pockets with the DLC not the casual players, so make the game accessible for the casual gamer sure go ahead but dont forget who will still be playing the game after a year.
They don't sell DLC just for us hardcore guys. In fact, they lose money on guys like us. Think of it this way, Gizzie, how many hours have you spent playing Forza 4? Compare that to the full cost, perhaps $120, with all DLC purchases? That is a pretty low cost per hour of use, yet you are still consuming their services. Yes, they will pay lip service to us, but the reality is that they make their money on the casual controller user, who by the way, does buy at least some DLC. By the time the casual guy tires of the game less than a year after release, the DLC stops, but there is a Horizon to look forward to and another round of game and DLC purchases.
GT5 has taken a completely different strategy. That game still has legs even though it's been 2 1/2 years since it was released. PD is clearly rewarding its hardcore users with weekly seasonal events that are quite challenging.
So am I the only one who thinks FM4 had been the best one yet :)
TBh the reason I love Forza so much is because of the people here who race on the track with me.
It's not the pits and all that crap that would get me playing more. It's been 10ft off Gizzies rear bumper for 10 laps thats the stuff that gets my heart going.
We have night races, rain effects full pits etc over at 2old2race and do we use them?
No because after the first time you realize it's just a gimmick.
Can you imagine having a close race at night in the wet? Yeah for 30 seconds until everyone crashes. Don't forget a lot of us here struggle enough with perfect clear tracks nevermind making it almost impossible for a vet to finish a race.
And thats the reason why they dont have all these features. This place would be very very quite if we had full Sim with Wets and night races. etc.
Thats why this place is called 2Old4Forza ;) (Simcade)
There is 2Old2Race or GoneBrokeRacing for hardcore sim racing though Just hop you have a Wheel because let me tell you traying to play rFactor, iRacing, Race 07 etc is the hardest thing I have ever done with a joy pad
Rant over.
Oh yeah and Spa is in the game. Did none see the pics in the previous pages? (SPA I tell you!)
Most of this I agree with, shockingly enough. I have had more fun in Fm4 than I did 3, and it's because you all drug me out of the paintbooth and out on the track and showed me how to drive a bit. And I'm still getting better. it's been noticeable the last month or so.
Gizzie and I have a couple amazing passes last night on the Ring. It was great.
IF SPA is in Fm5, they'll make a huge reveal of it!
I also agree that Forza 4 was the best yet. It had the most tracks, plus they polished up the tracks they carried over from Forza 3. The cockpit interiors look the best ever, and there is a ton of cars.
Church, If people can't use common sense to keep tone it down when the weather conditions allow, then thats their own fault :)
I don't have problem driving with people, because i give them space when its required, endurance races are the same. So i wouldn't say its a problem with the game, it just has to be used in the right way.
Personally have found 4 the best so far. Ran a few laps in 2 recently - it was OK, but not as good IMO.
I'm fine with Forza being simcade. I do think that adding a few pit options and especially the aero damage nonsense can't be that hard. Surely also simple to provide tyre wear and fuel consumption options.
Still, all I really want is for the fecking fanatecs to work. Have I said that enough times?
I'll get my coat.
PS - replaced my dead fm4 disc this afternoon so I'm a happy bunny now.
All excellent points in here but just to be clear, here is what I am saying:
I like Forza's physics. I have played other games both on PC and on other consoles (GT5). Maybe I'm crazy but I don't find them to be bad at all. I like them slightly better than GT5's and they are definitely better than any other console racer. To me Forza physics and sound are more...visceral where GT5 has a more clinical/technical feel to it. Good, but different. Like them both.
I also like this community. It gives Forza stronger purpose for me. Sharing paints and tunes. Creating and running a series. All that stuff.
the things I think Forza could use are simple. A few more variations that are not ground breaking and innovative stuff. Easy things for T10 to implement that don't require lots of effort. And stuff that they have had before. Dan readily admits that some things had to go to accommodate graphical updates. So, my thinking is that now that they have a box with tons more power PLUS the cloud computing aspect then they should be able to bring stuff back.
Who knows what T10 has in store for us but I know 4 years is a long ass time to work on a game. Add to that early access to dev kits. I'm still hopefull. We got a couple things that I posted in my OP. Open wheels cars and new paint finishes... Hopefully there will be more.
Parcells can't speak to your sanity Snappy although I have strong suspicions you might be crazy I really hope its not because of the above sentiment as Parcells agrees with this almost 100%. The only thing I would change is I find GT5 physics slightly better then FM4 but it is such a fine line I could easily see people thinking just the opposite…the sound effects feedback of FM is way better then GT5 but I find the weight transfers and feeling of driving on the tarmac a little better in GT5.
Is FM4 better than FM3 or 2? Probably but when I or others speak to the downfall of FM since version 2 were mostly referring to how Turn10 keeps putting less and less effort into SIM racing features vs. adding features that would increase sales via appealing to the mass market.
And without question the game would not be half as good without you losers to enjoy it with. Did I say losers? I meant winners. Yeah that’s what I meant to say.
Here's my input:Thumbs up what Gizzie said, thumbs up what Church said, I agree with Lawyer, Snappy, and Poidsly, Oldschool is probably lying but I can't prove it, Tourni is not the boss of me, and although I just skimmed Parcells post, he probably should have kept whatever he said to himself.
One thing I will say about GT5 is that I don't like the career mode at all. I just feel like the license tests are too much. For someone who has played the series since the first GT why do players have to go through it every time. It gets to be such a grind. Not a huge deal, I know, but still annoying.