Again with the starts a RWD car will get a lot better start than a FWD car. Please make sure you are aware of this if your in a RWD car or a FWD car.
Also we have now only done 3 races. There is another 27 to go. As in the BTCC Season one the first 5 or 6 races where a bit rough (Especially the first weekend).
This is due to all the different cars and drivers on the track. Now all the drivers who raced this weekend have a bit of experience on how the other cars around them will drive it should I would hope that people will start to know where they can pass the car in front etc.
Also the times in Room B are very very close so after everything this Season should make you a pretty good traffic driver
Most importantly please be aware of the RWD / FWD starts. If you think you can defend a RWD then do so but normally its better to just let it pass at first then work your way past over the race.
Close racing tonight in room A. But as usual, a 10% handicapped car gets raped on the straights by the regular cars. Kind of glad I came in 8th on the third race.
first of all: Thank you ALL for great racing - ty for hosting Skiwi - and - thank you Church - for producing so much fun. Some remarks I have to made:
1. I am such a stupid guy. From lap 2 to lap 13 in race 3 I am leading the pack and than .......... one mistake. GRD 4L was all of this race at my back. It was his chance and he took it.
Aaaarggh. Finally I made it to the podium, but ............... how much fun it would have be to get my second ever win? Grrrrrrrrr. I am so ..... not consistent.
2. This sunday was not bad. Race one - place 5. Race two - place 4. Race three - place 3 (ooohhhh, I hate that one.)
3. I don't know exactly, but I think it was a good team result for JDRT - Sorry Antz for not catching me in race one :-).
4. To the new and unexperienced guys: Thank you for participating. Please hold on. It took nearly two years for me to come to my level (= far, far away from room A).
5. I now drove many laps at Silverstone International, but never ever made a lap under 1.30. If any alien would watch my driving and give me some tipps (where do I loose speed and time?), this would be great.
6. It is just a game, guys! We are all gentlemen drivers, so please take care of your words. "cunt", "idiot", ....... are not style of our community.
Have a good nite!
JDANKERT
PS: I will miss next week. Please sent me a video of all three races!
skiwi, I will also upload my race 3 replay into my SF.
JDAN, If you remember your first win (May/June of 2013?), I was the driver in 2nd.
In 3rd race today, I could not make up the gap in the first half of the race; you were doing just fine! My beloved Kia, in my hands, can only do 1:29.9. (sorry about the bump from behind though, it was certainly NOT intended). In the race, I was doing mid 1:30s, best lap being 1:30.0xx I think.
BTW, thanks to everyone for being very considerate and gentlemanly in the races! (I would also say ladylike but no one sounded like a lady in Room B)
Congrats to derekthetree for winning and leading the points in Room!
@GRD 4L: Yes, I will never forget that April 7th, 2013 in my Seat Leon Cupra. My first win!!!!!! It is always a pleasure to race against you! Fair, clean and space giving.
Question for the A room Civic drivers, did you also loose almost all front grip when close behind someone (BMW's especialy)? Or do I need to tweek my settings, can't say I remember that much difference in the shakedown. Odd...
Question for the A room Civic drivers, did you also loose almost all front grip when close behind someone (BMW's especialy)? Or do I need to tweek my settings, can't say I remember that much difference in the shakedown. Odd...
I noted less front grip when around your car vs others cars as well. Weird. When following you in race one I could NOT get the car to grip.
When around others the car was OK.
The BMW isn't terribly grippy so I DO run FULL aero on the front. I run the rear pretty low (almost all the way down) to pick up some speed I lose because of the front aero being turned up all the way.
Question for the A room Civic drivers, did you also loose almost all front grip when close behind someone (BMW's especialy)? Or do I need to tweek my settings, can't say I remember that much difference in the shakedown. Odd...
Not sure about aero push, but on my FWD Civic the front tires were turning yellow and up to 240* F by the end of the race. This was slowing me down a few tenths.
If your rubbing Aero and get close behind someone you will lose all the benefits from having said Aero. Same with the RWD cars like mine. If someone was close behind the arse end was all over the place
That was some great fun yesterday. Thanks all for the good times…. Thx SKIWI for hosting and managing lobbyB and thanks CPro for organizing.
Great 3rd race GRD, you deserved the win. This is my first race series and I’m already hooked. At work right now and can think of nothing else but getting home and tuning my car for next weekend.
There was a little Agro in Lobby B going into and in the 3rd race, so to attempt to bring everyone on the same page so people know what to expect, here’s a clip from CPro’s rules posting:
2. This is a NON-Contact event. However lightly rubbing or leaning on another car is allowed as long as it doesn't result in rubbing the other car intoL
A) A Wall or Barrier
B) A 3rd/4th Car,
C) A totally different direction
D) Anything too aggressive that may prompt your opponent to submit a complaint against you.
Please drive clean and respectfully.
A couple brief words about racing like a ‘Gentleman’:
Leaving your chosen driving line in order to impede a faster driver from passing you is called ‘illegal blocking’. Some racing body rules dictate that any change in line to this effect is illegal, while others say that 1 such movement during a section is permitted but multiple movements are not. In either case, are employing such tactics considered ‘Gentlemanly’?
It is always the responsibility of the Racer who is attempting to pass to complete the pass clean and incident free. From above: ‘Rubbing and leaning’ is permitted. However, using a bump to push a driver you are passing completely off their line to setup a pass, or ramming a side door to complete a dive bomb…. what do you think, ‘Gentlemanly’ or not? IMO, the Gentlemanly thing to do would to give back the position, and attempt to make the pass again cleanly.
Leaving your chosen driving line in order to impede a faster driver from passing you is called ‘illegal blocking’. Some racing body rules dictate that any change in line to this effect is illegal, while others say that 1 such movement during a section is permitted but multiple movements are not. In either case, are employing such tactics considered ‘Gentlemanly’?
This one’s rather tough because most every situation is different but NO you should not block people. As the leading car I’m allowed to pick my line along a straight but once chosen it’s my responsibility to hold that line and if the following car picks a different line only to find the leading car in front again that would be considered blocking and not at all gentleman like.
andrew404 wrote:
It is always the responsibility of the Racer who is attempting to pass to complete the pass clean and incident free. From above: ‘Rubbing and leaning’ is permitted. However, using a bump to push a driver you are passing completely off their line to setup a pass, or ramming a side door to complete a dive bomb…. what do you think, ‘Gentlemanly’ or not? IMO, the Gentlemanly thing to do would to give back the position, and attempt to make the pass again cleanly.
As described not the least bit gentlemanly…if you cannot pass a car 100% cleanly you’re not as good of a racer as you think you are even a tap is cheap because it upsets the balance of the leading car so it should be considerably easier to pass them at that point.***
*** What I wrote is accurate but many times I’ve seen or been in a situation where I might accidentally tap the person I’m about trying to pass and my instinct will be to let off the gas to allow the person I tapped to regain control and for me to race like a gentlemen but sometimes this causes much more trouble vs. just apologizing and continue racing hard…specifically WHEN multiple cars are following you…if both lead cars let up (one getting bumped the other letting off trying to be gentlemanly) there’s a good chance the following cars will all come crashing into the mix ruining a lot more than just one or two persons race so it’s a fine line between racing gentlemanly and racing smart and often hard to decide in the split of a second under race conditions.
Will also add that in these types of tight tracks you will ALWAYS pass more people as they screw up in front of you vs. straight up I’m faster and will pass you cleanly. Point being patience is a virtue that will glean you better finishing positions on a regular basis.
Like Church eluded to, this was race one and probably lots of built up adrenalin waiting for the series to start and with respect to the B room lots of new drivers you’re not yet familiar with and until you are its very very difficult to race side by side with someone so just give it another week and if people continue to bump you in order to pass submit a complaint against that person (PM to Church) and the incident will be reviewed.
Finally, having spewed Parcells “you should race like this” spiel I owe an apology (again) to Grimm and whomever else’s race I ruined yesterday evening as I totally butchered an opportunity to pass and butchered it in a good way…as in all out :) I do however contend the attempt was not the least bit futile nor was it reckless and I’m pretty sure I would normally pull it off 4 times out of 5 but last night was not one of those times…was side by side with Grimm and had I not let my car slide into his the incident would not have occurred and I had a pretty good chance of battling the lead car (Zeratul I think?) into the next turn…that’s what I envisioned at the time and what should have happened but it did not and the resulting chaos was 100% attributed to my faulty driving.
Like Parcells says its the first week with lots of drivers in different cars.
I have only received a few PM's but its mainly due to the RWD / FWD start difference + the whole different drivers / cars.
Like jdan said if you do have a crash etc please don't be shouting at each other and swearing etc it creates a bum atmosphere.
I know we joke around etc but when its race time any issues please report to me through PM. We have a full set of stewards that will look at any racing incident. Its not all about pointing the blame but more about education on the track that in-turn will make us all better drivers.
Also if you are having a bad race try to keep on the track till the end. The benefits of this happened at least twice that I know of yesterday, I almost left in race 3 but though I better keep going to get the replay and on the last lap a massive clusterfuck happened up front that saw me pick up 4 places (from last)
In room B Stevie was having a bad race and asked how many race are dropped over the season (6 BTW) and said I may drop this one. Half a lap later he was 6th.
This is BTCC and you will not get a podium every race, just like the real BTCC. The driver who is smart and just keeps picking points up consistently will be up the top.
Also if you are having a bad race try to keep on the track till the end. The benefits of this happened at least twice that I know of yesterday, I almost left in race 3 but though I better keep going to get the replay and on the last lap a massive clusterfuck happened up front that saw me pick up 4 places (from last)
You dont have to rub it in Church I already admitted to my mistake...and you're welcome btw. :)
I will be reviewing all replays tomorrow and publishing the results. I hope what we have talked about on here and the track will make race 4, 5 and 6 a lot more cleaner.
I wont be issuing any penalties to any driver this week. I will how every PM any driver and offer some advice if I think they need it before Road Atlanta.
On a good note though we did have 31 driver race yesterday. Well done lads and to anyone who got in the top 10 of each race!
Just so everyone understands the track limits and Turn 3 at Road Atlanta. (Yes I know this is me saying)
If any car has all 4 wheels in the area shown as Red below more than 3 times in each race (4, 5 or 6) they will receive a 6 second penalty that will be taken away from there final finishing time.
If a driver has all 4 wheels in the area shown as Red below more than 4 times in a race they will be Black Flagged from the offending race but will keep any Handicaps gained.
Church, does the power handicap apply after each of the 12 lap races? Or applied to the next event, i.e. Silverstone was all 100% (all 3 races) then Road Atlanta is first H/C application (all 3 races).
In Room B, H/C was applied after each race and I thought maybe that was a lot of number juggling. skiwiNV, however, did a great job and got all the H/C right!
Church, I know cars in front affect my aero related grip but in these races I was trapped behind BMW's and lost WAY more grip than in the shakedown running nose to tail to nose with other civics and a golf. It almost seems like the BMW creates more turbulence than other cars IDK.
GRD, H/C should be aplied after each heat, as was done.
One other remark on "how to race" please keep in mind that a FWD takes a turn on a very different line than an RWD. A FWD will always favor a late apex squared off line, where a RWD favors a more smooth and rounded line. This is due to how you effectively put the power down with said driveline. So if you see a FWD leaving an opening on turn entry, know he wiil cut back in later in the turn. That's not closing the door in your face, it's the natural line for the FWD.
One other remark on "how to race" please keep in mind that a FWD takes a turn on a very different line than an RWD. A FWD will always favor a late apex squared off line, where a RWD favors a more smooth and rounded line. This is due to how you effectively put the power down with said driveline. So if you see a FWD leaving an opening on turn entry, know he wiil cut back in later in the turn. That's not closing the door in your face, it's the natural line for the FWD.
True but if the FWD car (or any car for that matter) leaves the door open too long in the corner, the driver behind can get into that spot and own that line at which point the first car must not come down on him. In our race, I was very mindful of that being behind you and had I not lost so much ground on you in the straight, I would have been in position to pass you on the inside on the hairpin on a couple of occasions. By no means though did I think you were cutting down on my as I was not in position to pass you but I also made sure I was not going to lose momentum and kept it close.
True but if the FWD car (or any car for that matter) leaves the door open too long in the corner, the driver behind can get into that spot and own that line at which point the first car must not come down on him. In our race, I was very mindful of that being behind you and had I not lost so much ground on you in the straight, I would have been in position to pass you on the inside on the hairpin on a couple of occasions. By no means though did I think you were cutting down on my as I was not in position to pass you but I also made sure I was not going to lose momentum and kept it close.
Exactly, if you would have been able to put your car fully next to me at a slightly early RWD line the turn would have been yours. When I cut back in while someone is close behind me I always cheack the distance meter, if we are within 10 ft. I won't cut in fully.
Jumped in Room B to watch the 3rd race.
Again with the starts a RWD car will get a lot better start than a FWD car. Please make sure you are aware of this if your in a RWD car or a FWD car.
Also we have now only done 3 races. There is another 27 to go. As in the BTCC Season one the first 5 or 6 races where a bit rough (Especially the first weekend).
This is due to all the different cars and drivers on the track. Now all the drivers who raced this weekend have a bit of experience on how the other cars around them will drive it should I would hope that people will start to know where they can pass the car in front etc.
Also the times in Room B are very very close so after everything this Season should make you a pretty good traffic driver
Most importantly please be aware of the RWD / FWD starts. If you think you can defend a RWD then do so but normally its better to just let it pass at first then work your way past over the race.
Zeratul - Great racing with you that last race in the closing laps. Very clean and hard fought. Looking forward to racing with you in the A room!
Throughly enjoyed tonight's racing. Sorry for the odd bump -- I use the bonnet cam, so I don't see folk next to me until the last second.
Thanks for the invites, and thanks for the experience.
A good example of the FWD and RWD situation in real life (Also feature Rob Austin
)
The White MG and Blue Civic are FWD. The WIX Audi is RWD
Skip to 38 Seconds
http://youtu.be/jQEKAf-wzSQ
look at my start in the last race, its just like that
Also notice the BMW on the left powering round alot of FWD cars just before the video ends.
Close racing tonight in room A. But as usual, a 10% handicapped car gets raped on the straights by the regular cars. Kind of glad I came in 8th on the third race.
I would like to join in racing this series CPro, If I can.
Hello,
first of all: Thank you ALL for great racing - ty for hosting Skiwi - and - thank you Church - for producing so much fun. Some remarks I have to made:
1. I am such a stupid guy. From lap 2 to lap 13 in race 3 I am leading the pack and than .......... one mistake. GRD 4L was all of this race at my back. It was his chance and he took it.
[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3755/10126484486_d6f8abd5bc.jpg[/img]
Congratulations to you! You deserved this win, because you hunted me for 11 laps!
One lap later another mistake and ....
[img]http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5493/10126350664_ea4c5cb035.jpg[/img]
.... I lost place two also!
Aaaarggh. Finally I made it to the podium, but ............... how much fun it would have be to get my second ever win? Grrrrrrrrr. I am so ..... not consistent.
[img]http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2867/10126405705_a7c00eeec0.jpg[/img]
2. This sunday was not bad. Race one - place 5. Race two - place 4. Race three - place 3 (ooohhhh, I hate that one.)
3. I don't know exactly, but I think it was a good team result for JDRT - Sorry Antz for not catching me in race one :-).
4. To the new and unexperienced guys: Thank you for participating. Please hold on. It took nearly two years for me to come to my level (= far, far away from room A).
5. I now drove many laps at Silverstone International, but never ever made a lap under 1.30. If any alien would watch my driving and give me some tipps (where do I loose speed and time?), this would be great.
6. It is just a game, guys! We are all gentlemen drivers, so please take care of your words. "cunt", "idiot", ....... are not style of our community.
Have a good nite!
JDANKERT
PS: I will miss next week. Please sent me a video of all three races!
Anyone got the Room B 3rd race replay plse? My save got corrupted; Rnds 1 & 2 are on my storefront.
Question for room A: Which times (average lap times) did you make in the races`? In room B it was very close. Lap times between 1.29 to 1.30.
@Skiwi: Will send it tomorrow to you!
skiwi, I will also upload my race 3 replay into my SF.
JDAN, If you remember your first win (May/June of 2013?), I was the driver in 2nd.
In 3rd race today, I could not make up the gap in the first half of the race; you were doing just fine! My beloved Kia, in my hands, can only do 1:29.9. (sorry about the bump from behind though, it was certainly NOT intended). In the race, I was doing mid 1:30s, best lap being 1:30.0xx I think.
BTW, thanks to everyone for being very considerate and gentlemanly in the races! (I would also say ladylike but no one sounded like a lady in Room B)
Congrats to derekthetree for winning and leading the points in Room!
@GRD 4L: Yes, I will never forget that April 7th, 2013 in my Seat Leon Cupra. My first win!!!!!! It is always a pleasure to race against you! Fair, clean and space giving.
JDan, room A was running 27's/28's.
Question for the A room Civic drivers, did you also loose almost all front grip when close behind someone (BMW's especialy)? Or do I need to tweek my settings, can't say I remember that much difference in the shakedown. Odd...
I noted less front grip when around your car vs others cars as well. Weird. When following you in race one I could NOT get the car to grip.
When around others the car was OK.
The BMW isn't terribly grippy so I DO run FULL aero on the front. I run the rear pretty low (almost all the way down) to pick up some speed I lose because of the front aero being turned up all the way.
That was some great fun yesterday. Thanks all for the good times…. Thx SKIWI for hosting and managing lobbyB and thanks CPro for organizing.
Great 3rd race GRD, you deserved the win. This is my first race series and I’m already hooked. At work right now and can think of nothing else but getting home and tuning my car for next weekend.
There was a little Agro in Lobby B going into and in the 3rd race, so to attempt to bring everyone on the same page so people know what to expect, here’s a clip from CPro’s rules posting:
2. This is a NON-Contact event. However lightly rubbing or leaning on another car is allowed as long as it doesn't result in rubbing the other car intoL
A) A Wall or Barrier
B) A 3rd/4th Car,
C) A totally different direction
D) Anything too aggressive that may prompt your opponent to submit a complaint against you.
Please drive clean and respectfully.
A couple brief words about racing like a ‘Gentleman’:
Leaving your chosen driving line in order to impede a faster driver from passing you is called ‘illegal blocking’. Some racing body rules dictate that any change in line to this effect is illegal, while others say that 1 such movement during a section is permitted but multiple movements are not. In either case, are employing such tactics considered ‘Gentlemanly’?
It is always the responsibility of the Racer who is attempting to pass to complete the pass clean and incident free. From above: ‘Rubbing and leaning’ is permitted. However, using a bump to push a driver you are passing completely off their line to setup a pass, or ramming a side door to complete a dive bomb…. what do you think, ‘Gentlemanly’ or not? IMO, the Gentlemanly thing to do would to give back the position, and attempt to make the pass again cleanly.
This one’s rather tough because most every situation is different but NO you should not block people. As the leading car I’m allowed to pick my line along a straight but once chosen it’s my responsibility to hold that line and if the following car picks a different line only to find the leading car in front again that would be considered blocking and not at all gentleman like.
As described not the least bit gentlemanly…if you cannot pass a car 100% cleanly you’re not as good of a racer as you think you are even a tap is cheap because it upsets the balance of the leading car so it should be considerably easier to pass them at that point.***
*** What I wrote is accurate but many times I’ve seen or been in a situation where I might accidentally tap the person I’m about trying to pass and my instinct will be to let off the gas to allow the person I tapped to regain control and for me to race like a gentlemen but sometimes this causes much more trouble vs. just apologizing and continue racing hard…specifically WHEN multiple cars are following you…if both lead cars let up (one getting bumped the other letting off trying to be gentlemanly) there’s a good chance the following cars will all come crashing into the mix ruining a lot more than just one or two persons race so it’s a fine line between racing gentlemanly and racing smart and often hard to decide in the split of a second under race conditions.
Will also add that in these types of tight tracks you will ALWAYS pass more people as they screw up in front of you vs. straight up I’m faster and will pass you cleanly. Point being patience is a virtue that will glean you better finishing positions on a regular basis.
Like Church eluded to, this was race one and probably lots of built up adrenalin waiting for the series to start and with respect to the B room lots of new drivers you’re not yet familiar with and until you are its very very difficult to race side by side with someone so just give it another week and if people continue to bump you in order to pass submit a complaint against that person (PM to Church) and the incident will be reviewed.
Finally, having spewed Parcells “you should race like this” spiel I owe an apology (again) to Grimm and whomever else’s race I ruined yesterday evening as I totally butchered an opportunity to pass and butchered it in a good way…as in all out :) I do however contend the attempt was not the least bit futile nor was it reckless and I’m pretty sure I would normally pull it off 4 times out of 5 but last night was not one of those times…was side by side with Grimm and had I not let my car slide into his the incident would not have occurred and I had a pretty good chance of battling the lead car (Zeratul I think?) into the next turn…that’s what I envisioned at the time and what should have happened but it did not and the resulting chaos was 100% attributed to my faulty driving.
Thanks for the comments lads.
Like Parcells says its the first week with lots of drivers in different cars.
I have only received a few PM's but its mainly due to the RWD / FWD start difference + the whole different drivers / cars.
Like jdan said if you do have a crash etc please don't be shouting at each other and swearing etc it creates a bum atmosphere.
I know we joke around etc but when its race time any issues please report to me through PM. We have a full set of stewards that will look at any racing incident. Its not all about pointing the blame but more about education on the track that in-turn will make us all better drivers.
Also if you are having a bad race try to keep on the track till the end. The benefits of this happened at least twice that I know of yesterday, I almost left in race 3 but though I better keep going to get the replay and on the last lap a massive clusterfuck happened up front that saw me pick up 4 places (from last)
In room B Stevie was having a bad race and asked how many race are dropped over the season (6 BTW) and said I may drop this one. Half a lap later he was 6th.
This is BTCC and you will not get a podium every race, just like the real BTCC. The driver who is smart and just keeps picking points up consistently will be up the top.
You dont have to rub it in Church I already admitted to my mistake...and you're welcome btw. :)
I will be reviewing all replays tomorrow and publishing the results. I hope what we have talked about on here and the track will make race 4, 5 and 6 a lot more cleaner.
I wont be issuing any penalties to any driver this week. I will how every PM any driver and offer some advice if I think they need it before Road Atlanta.
On a good note though we did have 31 driver race yesterday. Well done lads and to anyone who got in the top 10 of each race!
Road Atlanta and Turn 3 Track Limits
Just so everyone understands the track limits and Turn 3 at Road Atlanta. (Yes I know this is me saying)
If any car has all 4 wheels in the area shown as Red below more than 3 times in each race (4, 5 or 6) they will receive a 6 second penalty that will be taken away from there final finishing time.
If a driver has all 4 wheels in the area shown as Red below more than 4 times in a race they will be Black Flagged from the offending race but will keep any Handicaps gained.
Any issues please post below.
I'm colour blind, so I suppose I can just drive whichever way I want around the turn. Cheers sorted.
Church, does the power handicap apply after each of the 12 lap races? Or applied to the next event, i.e. Silverstone was all 100% (all 3 races) then Road Atlanta is first H/C application (all 3 races).
In Room B, H/C was applied after each race and I thought maybe that was a lot of number juggling. skiwiNV, however, did a great job and got all the H/C right!
Its applied after each race. I so wish we could add weight but power it is :(
Church, I know cars in front affect my aero related grip but in these races I was trapped behind BMW's and lost WAY more grip than in the shakedown running nose to tail to nose with other civics and a golf. It almost seems like the BMW creates more turbulence than other cars IDK.
GRD, H/C should be aplied after each heat, as was done.
One other remark on "how to race" please keep in mind that a FWD takes a turn on a very different line than an RWD. A FWD will always favor a late apex squared off line, where a RWD favors a more smooth and rounded line. This is due to how you effectively put the power down with said driveline. So if you see a FWD leaving an opening on turn entry, know he wiil cut back in later in the turn. That's not closing the door in your face, it's the natural line for the FWD.
True but if the FWD car (or any car for that matter) leaves the door open too long in the corner, the driver behind can get into that spot and own that line at which point the first car must not come down on him. In our race, I was very mindful of that being behind you and had I not lost so much ground on you in the straight, I would have been in position to pass you on the inside on the hairpin on a couple of occasions. By no means though did I think you were cutting down on my as I was not in position to pass you but I also made sure I was not going to lose momentum and kept it close.
Exactly, if you would have been able to put your car fully next to me at a slightly early RWD line the turn would have been yours. When I cut back in while someone is close behind me I always cheack the distance meter, if we are within 10 ft. I won't cut in fully.
Was a pleasure racing you and Max.