The argument against the DMR is that its overpowered, too easy to kill with, and renders almost every other weapon inert over moderate to long distance. People want to bring bloom into it to balance it.
The argument against the DMR is that its overpowered, too easy to kill with, and renders almost every other weapon inert over moderate to long distance. People want to bring bloom into it to balance it.
Some do. They're called "idiots". Limit how fast you can pull the trigger with it. Bloom shouldn't exist at all. I don't want random crap determining if my shots land or not.
There will always be cheap and easy ways to kill. People could just as easily camp corners with stealth, camo and assassinate. Its a tad harder, but only just that.
If you jump around corners then Timmy won't be ready, he'll waste his BoltShot and he's an easy kill. There's also the Hologram option. When all else fails, there's the buddy system, which should be in use regardless of BoltShots or not.
I'm not saying the weapon is balanced, far from it. I'm just saying it could be worse, and I have seen worse in other games.
I don't often die by rocket launcher. However, when I am surprised by an opponent who has rockets, I usually die.
With the boltshot, you may not die much by it overall. However, when you encounter someone firing it at you, that is when you die from it. It isn't that you die infrequently from it, but rather that when you encounter it being shot in your face, there is very little you can do. It is also a loadout weapon so you can't get a lucky kill and take control, as with rockets. They'll respawn with it over and over.
If there were stats that showed how many times a player was hit with a boltshot, but did not die from the encounter, and we were able to compare that to other loadout weapons, there might be something different to see. My guess, when someone takes a boltshot blast to the face, they end up dead more often than if they take a magnum shot.
When used, it is very deadly. As with most weapons in Halo, if people don't use them very often then there will be less kills with that weapon.
So the point is that it is an extremely effective weapon when used that can kill a fully shielded spartan in a single shot, and you can spawn with it.
A little extra food for thought, which loadout weapon, either primary or secondary, can kill a fully shielded spartan in one shot? Remember the boltshot can fire two blasts before reloading as well.
This all reminds me of people saying "More people die in a car crash each year than plane crashes." I'd much rather be in a car cash than a plane crash.
After hearing how the boltshot was so overpowered I tried it in a loadout to see if would help improve my K/D ratio. I had limited success. More often than not I would screw up the timing or miss the shot and then I'm dead in the water. I see the potential of the weapon, but it does take practice and therefore some skill to use effectively and even then its not 100% one shot kill. No weapon is because everybody screws up timing and aim in their game to some extent.
Instead of complaining about how overpowered it is or how boring it makes a game, see it as a tactical challenge to overcome. Someone mentioned jumping around corners and using grenades to combat it. That seems like good advice. Add to that a load out with increased grenades and increased grenade damage to smoke the campers out.
Everybody is frustrated by different weapons and tactics used in the game. It doesn't make the game broken or unbalanced.
After hearing how the boltshot was so overpowered I tried it in a loadout to see if would help improve my K/D ratio. I had limited success. More often than not I would screw up the timing or miss the shot and then I'm dead in the water. I see the potential of the weapon, but it does take practice and therefore some skill to use effectively and even then its not 100% one shot kill. No weapon is because everybody screws up timing and aim in their game to some extent.
Instead of complaining about how overpowered it is or how boring it makes a game, see it as a tactical challenge to overcome. Someone mentioned jumping around corners and using grenades to combat it. That seems like good advice. Add to that a load out with increased grenades and increased grenade damage to smoke the campers out.
Everybody is frustrated by different weapons and tactics used in the game. It doesn't make the game broken or unbalanced.
Well it is true that most weapons that do not damage another player due to user error aren't going to be effective.
However, think on if you had the timing down extremely well, and were accurate with it almost every time. Could you see then that the boltshot would overshadow the magnum in a very significant way?
Another thing to note is that the boltshot can get a headshot on an unshielded opponent. In other words, if someone is already without shields, a trigger tap can kill them, as with the magnum. If they have full shields, you can kill them instantly but after a charge up. If you don't kill with your initial chargup but remove their shields, you have five fast chances to get a headshot.
From my personal stats I have over 1100 boltshot kills in matchmaking, with just over 100 deaths. I was quite good with the timing, knew to double swap weapons to avoid wasting a shot, etc. The main thing I feared when I was using the boltshot, was that someone else would spawn with them, or that if I died they'd find my boltshot.
In all of the Infinity Slayer maps pre-DLC, boltshot is in my top 3 weapons on every one of them.
I had tried it early on and didn't like it because of timing, limited range, and taking forever for single shots to get through a guys shield. It was a while into Halo 4 that I gave it a second chance, realized its power, and my kills skyrocketed with it and overall.
Balance isn't a matter of "All guns can miss, so they are all equal.'
If a player comes around a corner with their magnum out, and sees me standing there with a charged boltshot directed at them, they may as well start tapping X to respawn. If we both had magnums, there'd be an interesting fight. If one had magnum, the other plasma pistol, one would try and shoot off shields and then melee, the other would melee and then shoot for the head, again an interesting and close fight. Boltshot vs any other loadout secondary, tap X to respawn.
If two people have equal skill, one has magnum, one has boltshot, the balance issue is easier to see.
Again, which loadout weapon, either primary or secondary, can kill a fully shielded spartan in one shot, and another as well before reloading?
From my personal stats I have over 1100 boltshot kills in matchmaking, with just over 100 deaths. I was quite good with the timing, knew to double swap weapons to avoid wasting a shot, etc. The main thing I feared when I was using the boltshot, was that someone else would spawn with them, or that if I died they'd find my boltshot.
I had tried it early on and didn't like it because of timing, limited range, and taking forever for single shots to get through a guys shield. It was a while into Halo 4 that I gave it a second chance, realized its power, and my kills skyrocketed with it and overall.
Agreed with all of your post.
However, the quoted stuff is disheartening. Basically "It's OP, but what's good for the goose....."
After hearing how the boltshot was so overpowered I tried it in a loadout to see if would help improve my K/D ratio. I had limited success. More often than not I would screw up the timing or miss the shot and then I'm dead in the water. I see the potential of the weapon, but it does take practice and therefore some skill to use effectively and even then its not 100% one shot kill. No weapon is because everybody screws up timing and aim in their game to some extent.
Instead of complaining about how overpowered it is or how boring it makes a game, see it as a tactical challenge to overcome. Someone mentioned jumping around corners and using grenades to combat it. That seems like good advice. Add to that a load out with increased grenades and increased grenade damage to smoke the campers out.
Everybody is frustrated by different weapons and tactics used in the game. It doesn't make the game broken or unbalanced.
Well it is true that most weapons that do not damage another player due to user error aren't going to be effective.
However, think on if you had the timing down extremely well, and were accurate with it almost every time. Could you see then that the boltshot would overshadow the magnum in a very significant way?
Another thing to note is that the boltshot can get a headshot on an unshielded opponent. In other words, if someone is already without shields, a trigger tap can kill them, as with the magnum. If they have full shields, you can kill them instantly but after a charge up. If you don't kill with your initial chargup but remove their shields, you have five fast chances to get a headshot.
From my personal stats I have over 1100 boltshot kills in matchmaking, with just over 100 deaths. I was quite good with the timing, knew to double swap weapons to avoid wasting a shot, etc. The main thing I feared when I was using the boltshot, was that someone else would spawn with them, or that if I died they'd find my boltshot.
In all of the Infinity Slayer maps pre-DLC, boltshot is in my top 3 weapons on every one of them.
I had tried it early on and didn't like it because of timing, limited range, and taking forever for single shots to get through a guys shield. It was a while into Halo 4 that I gave it a second chance, realized its power, and my kills skyrocketed with it and overall.
Balance isn't a matter of "All guns can miss, so they are all equal.'
If a player comes around a corner with their magnum out, and sees me standing there with a charged boltshot directed at them, they may as well start tapping X to respawn. If we both had magnums, there'd be an interesting fight. If one had magnum, the other plasma pistol, one would try and shoot off shields and then melee, the other would melee and then shoot for the head, again an interesting and close fight. Boltshot vs any other loadout secondary, tap X to respawn.
If two people have equal skill, one has magnum, one has boltshot, the balance issue is easier to see.
Again, which loadout weapon, either primary or secondary, can kill a fully shielded spartan in one shot, and another as well before reloading?
Congratulations on your impressive boltshot skill. I wish I could be as proficient with it as a weapon. Just as you are very good with it, I am probably very bad with it and I would suppose there is a whole spectrum of skill in between. Of course I can see that the Boltshot overshadows the magnum in close quarters. Welcome to Halo 4 where you should be wary of what is lurking around a corner and had better be prepared to accept your fate.
In your "battle of the secondary weapons" hypothetical, the outcome is probably very different at mid to longer ranges. I would also wager that a very skilled Halo player with a magnum would outperform a not so skilled Halo player with a boltshot most of the time.
It is a new aspect of the game and people will have to change playstyles accordingly. Or, get enough people to cry about it so 343 feels compelled to change it.
Congratulations on your impressive boltshot skill. I wish I could be as proficient with it as a weapon. Just as you are very good with it, I am probably very bad with it and I would suppose there is a whole spectrum of skill in between. Of course I can see that the Boltshot overshadows the magnum in close quarters. Welcome to Halo 4 where you should be wary of what is lurking around a corner and had better be prepared to accept your fate.
In your "battle of the secondary weapons" hypothetical, the outcome is probably very different at mid to longer ranges. I would also wager that a very skilled Halo player with a magnum would outperform a not so skilled Halo player with a boltshot most of the time.
It is a new aspect of the game and people will have to change playstyles accordingly. Or, get enough people to cry about it so 343 feels compelled to change it.
The problem isn't so much that people run around with their secondary weapons out all the time. It is that the boltshot is the go to weapon for close quarters that you can spawn with and overwhelms the other options. Sure, a magnum can be much better at a longer range than a boltshot. However, when I'm at a medium or far distance and want to shoot that enemy, I'll be using my primary weapon, not my boltshot. When there is a close quarters situation, then I use the boltshot. So mid to longer ranges, I use DMR or Light Rifle. Very close, boltshot is the clear choice.
It even defeats some ordinance weapons, especially a sword.
The important part of balance is to compare two equal things. So for seeing if a boltshot is imbalanced, you'd want to consider two people with equal skill but one has the boltshot, and the other uses other options.
I also should mention that before I switched the boltshot into some of my loadouts, my secondary weapon was either a plasma pistol for vehicle heavy gametypes, or the magnum. I didn't use the magnum, it was more like a wasted slot. With the boltshot I can have powerful close range weapon, and still have the primary slot for a mid/long range weapon. They get used depending on the situation.
Four boltshots and constant regen fields defending a location where their teams oddball carrier sits can be tough to counter with other loadout weapons. Put another way, it'd be like playing oddball in reach where the other team all had drop shields and shotguns and you had to run in their with your DMR and hope for a miracle. "Accept your fate" is rather fitting for that, I suppose. "May as well start hitting X to respawn now" would be another fitting phrase.
There was quite a bit of "adapt or leave" sentiment in Halo: Reach as well. Especially with regards to armor lock and such.
In any event, I know tone is hard to guage in Internet forum text, so I hope I didn't offend or anger you when I contributed to the discussion with my own opinion of the weapon in question.
More that if trueskill is working correctly, those of low skill will not see those of high skill use the boltshot in game. It is a highly frustrating weapon.
The odd thing that I find about the bolt is why people find the need to have this debate? It's CLEAR that is does more dmg then the other secondarys. Isn' t the fix simple? Move it out of a standard load out. This wouldn't hurt anyone. It would do nothing but improve gameplay.
In fact, for the sake of argument lets say the Bolt shot ISN'T over powered. How would moving it out of the load out be a bad thing? If its overpowered then we've fixed the problem, if not then its just as useless as the others pretend it to be.
The odd thing that I find about the bolt is why people find the need to have this debate? It's CLEAR that is does more dmg than the other secondarys. Isn't the fix simple? Move it out of a standard load out. This wouldn't hurt anyone. It would do nothing but improve gameplay.
In fact, for the sake of argument lets say the Bolt shot ISN'T over powered. How would moving it out of the load out be a bad thing? If its overpowered then we've fixed the problem, if not then its just as useless as the others pretend it to be.
The odd thing that I find about the bolt is why people find the need to have this debate? It's CLEAR that is does more dmg then the other secondarys. Isn' t the fix simple? Move it out of a standard load out. This wouldn't hurt anyone. It would do nothing but improve gameplay.
In fact, for the sake of argument lets say the Bolt shot ISN'T over powered. How would moving it out of the load out be a bad thing? If its overpowered then we've fixed the problem, if not then its just as useless as the others pretend it to be.
Possible Scenarios.
343i is going to pull a Bungie and say "we like it our way and the statistics back us up". Neener, neener.
343i had it planned all along to put it in the secondary loadouts so they could reverse that choice later on to show a willingness to appease complainers.
343i really caves to complaints and nerfs the Boltshot.
The odd thing that I find about the bolt is why people find the need to have this debate? It's CLEAR that is does more dmg then the other secondarys. Isn' t the fix simple? Move it out of a standard load out. This wouldn't hurt anyone. It would do nothing but improve gameplay.
In fact, for the sake of argument lets say the Bolt shot ISN'T over powered. How would moving it out of the load out be a bad thing? If its overpowered then we've fixed the problem, if not then its just as useless as the others pretend it to be.
Possible Scenarios.
343i is going to pull a Bungie and say "we like it our way and the statistics back us up". Neener, neener.
343i had it planned all along to put it in the secondary loadouts so they could reverse that choice later on to show a willingness to appease complainers.
343i really caves to complaints and nerfs the Boltshot.
But Deep, it's not about stats. You asked the question originally, why the hate? The answer is because for a secondary weapon, it is grossly overpowered. If we compare all the secondary weapons, it is obvious.
Magnum - You can get a kill with 1 clip of ammo, but it's not easy. You need good aim.
Plasma - It's nearly impossible to get a kill with it. It's great for tearning down shields and against vehicles. Charged shot will take down shields, but it doesn't track well, so you have to catch someone off guard or have them not avoid well. It's difficult to use.
Boltshot - 1 shot kill, 2 kills per clip. Reticule is huge so you've only got to be close to tear down shields. Also range is great enough that you can kill someone from half way across the top of Abandon.
Also,
Boltshot > Sword
Boltshot = Shotgun
Boltshot > Scattershot
The stats arguement is not useful here because of the nature of the weapon. Do you think if everyone had a 2 rocket loadout as a secondary that rocket kills would go up significantly? Sure, they'd go up, but it wouldn't be on the order of a primary weapon because you can only get 2 per life. Doesn't mean it would be the right thing to do.
Finally, I'd like to address the arguement of limiting the sandbox. The problem with leaving the boltshot in, is that you are actually limiting the sandbox more than by taking it out. The reason is because when one weapon becomes dominant, then that's what everyone selects.
But Deep, it's not about stats. You asked the question originally, why the hate? The answer is because for a secondary weapon, it is grossly overpowered. If we compare all the secondary weapons, it is obvious.
<snip>
Finally, I'd like to address the arguement of limiting the sandbox. The problem with leaving the boltshot in, is that you are actually limiting the sandbox more than by taking it out. The reason is because when one weapon becomes dominant, then that's what everyone selects.
As usual Ghost nailed it. Every game on Abandon and Adrift (and even Solace) defaults to "Team boltshots". The effect on stats is subtle because everyone knows that there's 4 people with boltshots at top mid on Abandon so we don't go up there at all. Instead the game is mind numbingly slow and finishes with a score of 40-35. So even if the BS isn't accounting for the majority of kills, it IS vastly changing the gameplay in a negative way.
@ Doodi you are way too calm and rational. Please stop trolling our ranty thread! (but yeah, what you said is right)
Sadly I still enjoy coming into the Halo forums and attempting to shit on someones parade. Plus I tend to favor simple solutions over constant battles with no end. Although they are still fun to watch!
@ Doodi you are way too calm and rational. Please stop trolling our ranty thread! (but yeah, what you said is right)
Sadly I still enjoy coming into the Halo forums and attempting to shit on someones parade. Plus I tend to favor simple solutions over constant battles with no end. Although they are still fun to watch!
You sir are getting a temp ban. Which would mean we get the same amount of support we normally get from you..
Put me in the hate Boltshot camp. It's not that it's just overpowered...everyone has one and it stiffles game play. When I get a guy one or two shot and he gets around a corner, if I chase there is a 50/50 chance he will be sitting there with a boltshot...if so a coin flip on who dies. It makes me play even more campy on campy maps. They claim they want the game to flow and they put in bottlenecks.I looked at my stats. I have 15 boltshot kills and 59 deaths...I also do not think it considers my shield being weak and finished off with a melee. It encourages those who use it to camp...and those who don't use it to camp...not that I don't mind pitching tents.
The boltshot doesn't need a nerf, it just needs to be taken out of the loadouts and made into an ordinance drop. Statistics are meaningless. I don't have a lot of deaths by railgun, but that doesn't mean I should be able to start with one. One person camping corners with a shotgun and camo is annoying. An entire team doing it ruins the game. Yes you can flush out campers but that's not fun for me, and it's not what I play Halo to do.
Some do. They're called "idiots". Limit how fast you can pull the trigger with it. Bloom shouldn't exist at all. I don't want random crap determining if my shots land or not.
LOL@bloom
If you create a setting where you can default to loadout of stealth (no heat), one shot weapon, and invis - it's a broken game.
The end.
I don't often die by rocket launcher. However, when I am surprised by an opponent who has rockets, I usually die.
With the boltshot, you may not die much by it overall. However, when you encounter someone firing it at you, that is when you die from it. It isn't that you die infrequently from it, but rather that when you encounter it being shot in your face, there is very little you can do. It is also a loadout weapon so you can't get a lucky kill and take control, as with rockets. They'll respawn with it over and over.
If there were stats that showed how many times a player was hit with a boltshot, but did not die from the encounter, and we were able to compare that to other loadout weapons, there might be something different to see. My guess, when someone takes a boltshot blast to the face, they end up dead more often than if they take a magnum shot.
When used, it is very deadly. As with most weapons in Halo, if people don't use them very often then there will be less kills with that weapon.
So the point is that it is an extremely effective weapon when used that can kill a fully shielded spartan in a single shot, and you can spawn with it.
A little extra food for thought, which loadout weapon, either primary or secondary, can kill a fully shielded spartan in one shot? Remember the boltshot can fire two blasts before reloading as well.
This all reminds me of people saying "More people die in a car crash each year than plane crashes." I'd much rather be in a car cash than a plane crash.
I think you are missing one scenario or factor in the 'study.' Trueskill.
After hearing how the boltshot was so overpowered I tried it in a loadout to see if would help improve my K/D ratio. I had limited success. More often than not I would screw up the timing or miss the shot and then I'm dead in the water. I see the potential of the weapon, but it does take practice and therefore some skill to use effectively and even then its not 100% one shot kill. No weapon is because everybody screws up timing and aim in their game to some extent.
Instead of complaining about how overpowered it is or how boring it makes a game, see it as a tactical challenge to overcome. Someone mentioned jumping around corners and using grenades to combat it. That seems like good advice. Add to that a load out with increased grenades and increased grenade damage to smoke the campers out.
Everybody is frustrated by different weapons and tactics used in the game. It doesn't make the game broken or unbalanced.
Well it is true that most weapons that do not damage another player due to user error aren't going to be effective.
However, think on if you had the timing down extremely well, and were accurate with it almost every time. Could you see then that the boltshot would overshadow the magnum in a very significant way?
Another thing to note is that the boltshot can get a headshot on an unshielded opponent. In other words, if someone is already without shields, a trigger tap can kill them, as with the magnum. If they have full shields, you can kill them instantly but after a charge up. If you don't kill with your initial chargup but remove their shields, you have five fast chances to get a headshot.
From my personal stats I have over 1100 boltshot kills in matchmaking, with just over 100 deaths. I was quite good with the timing, knew to double swap weapons to avoid wasting a shot, etc. The main thing I feared when I was using the boltshot, was that someone else would spawn with them, or that if I died they'd find my boltshot.
In all of the Infinity Slayer maps pre-DLC, boltshot is in my top 3 weapons on every one of them.
I had tried it early on and didn't like it because of timing, limited range, and taking forever for single shots to get through a guys shield. It was a while into Halo 4 that I gave it a second chance, realized its power, and my kills skyrocketed with it and overall.
Balance isn't a matter of "All guns can miss, so they are all equal.'
If a player comes around a corner with their magnum out, and sees me standing there with a charged boltshot directed at them, they may as well start tapping X to respawn. If we both had magnums, there'd be an interesting fight. If one had magnum, the other plasma pistol, one would try and shoot off shields and then melee, the other would melee and then shoot for the head, again an interesting and close fight. Boltshot vs any other loadout secondary, tap X to respawn.
If two people have equal skill, one has magnum, one has boltshot, the balance issue is easier to see.
Again, which loadout weapon, either primary or secondary, can kill a fully shielded spartan in one shot, and another as well before reloading?
Agreed with all of your post.
However, the quoted stuff is disheartening. Basically "It's OP, but what's good for the goose....."
Congratulations on your impressive boltshot skill. I wish I could be as proficient with it as a weapon. Just as you are very good with it, I am probably very bad with it and I would suppose there is a whole spectrum of skill in between. Of course I can see that the Boltshot overshadows the magnum in close quarters. Welcome to Halo 4 where you should be wary of what is lurking around a corner and had better be prepared to accept your fate.
In your "battle of the secondary weapons" hypothetical, the outcome is probably very different at mid to longer ranges. I would also wager that a very skilled Halo player with a magnum would outperform a not so skilled Halo player with a boltshot most of the time.
It is a new aspect of the game and people will have to change playstyles accordingly. Or, get enough people to cry about it so 343 feels compelled to change it.
The problem isn't so much that people run around with their secondary weapons out all the time. It is that the boltshot is the go to weapon for close quarters that you can spawn with and overwhelms the other options. Sure, a magnum can be much better at a longer range than a boltshot. However, when I'm at a medium or far distance and want to shoot that enemy, I'll be using my primary weapon, not my boltshot. When there is a close quarters situation, then I use the boltshot. So mid to longer ranges, I use DMR or Light Rifle. Very close, boltshot is the clear choice.
It even defeats some ordinance weapons, especially a sword.
The important part of balance is to compare two equal things. So for seeing if a boltshot is imbalanced, you'd want to consider two people with equal skill but one has the boltshot, and the other uses other options.
I also should mention that before I switched the boltshot into some of my loadouts, my secondary weapon was either a plasma pistol for vehicle heavy gametypes, or the magnum. I didn't use the magnum, it was more like a wasted slot. With the boltshot I can have powerful close range weapon, and still have the primary slot for a mid/long range weapon. They get used depending on the situation.
Four boltshots and constant regen fields defending a location where their teams oddball carrier sits can be tough to counter with other loadout weapons. Put another way, it'd be like playing oddball in reach where the other team all had drop shields and shotguns and you had to run in their with your DMR and hope for a miracle. "Accept your fate" is rather fitting for that, I suppose. "May as well start hitting X to respawn now" would be another fitting phrase.
There was quite a bit of "adapt or leave" sentiment in Halo: Reach as well. Especially with regards to armor lock and such.
In any event, I know tone is hard to guage in Internet forum text, so I hope I didn't offend or anger you when I contributed to the discussion with my own opinion of the weapon in question.
More that if trueskill is working correctly, those of low skill will not see those of high skill use the boltshot in game. It is a highly frustrating weapon.
The odd thing that I find about the bolt is why people find the need to have this debate? It's CLEAR that is does more dmg then the other secondarys. Isn' t the fix simple? Move it out of a standard load out. This wouldn't hurt anyone. It would do nothing but improve gameplay.
In fact, for the sake of argument lets say the Bolt shot ISN'T over powered. How would moving it out of the load out be a bad thing? If its overpowered then we've fixed the problem, if not then its just as useless as the others pretend it to be.
you get out of here with your logic.
343i is going to pull a Bungie and say "we like it our way and the statistics back us up". Neener, neener.
343i had it planned all along to put it in the secondary loadouts so they could reverse that choice later on to show a willingness to appease complainers.
343i really caves to complaints and nerfs the Boltshot.
bolded is not a "possible scenario"
http://youtu.be/bLMYTQUw8Lc
But Deep, it's not about stats. You asked the question originally, why the hate? The answer is because for a secondary weapon, it is grossly overpowered. If we compare all the secondary weapons, it is obvious.
Magnum - You can get a kill with 1 clip of ammo, but it's not easy. You need good aim.
Plasma - It's nearly impossible to get a kill with it. It's great for tearning down shields and against vehicles. Charged shot will take down shields, but it doesn't track well, so you have to catch someone off guard or have them not avoid well. It's difficult to use.
Boltshot - 1 shot kill, 2 kills per clip. Reticule is huge so you've only got to be close to tear down shields. Also range is great enough that you can kill someone from half way across the top of Abandon.
Also,
Boltshot > Sword
Boltshot = Shotgun
Boltshot > Scattershot
The stats arguement is not useful here because of the nature of the weapon. Do you think if everyone had a 2 rocket loadout as a secondary that rocket kills would go up significantly? Sure, they'd go up, but it wouldn't be on the order of a primary weapon because you can only get 2 per life. Doesn't mean it would be the right thing to do.
Finally, I'd like to address the arguement of limiting the sandbox. The problem with leaving the boltshot in, is that you are actually limiting the sandbox more than by taking it out. The reason is because when one weapon becomes dominant, then that's what everyone selects.
As usual Ghost nailed it. Every game on Abandon and Adrift (and even Solace) defaults to "Team boltshots". The effect on stats is subtle because everyone knows that there's 4 people with boltshots at top mid on Abandon so we don't go up there at all. Instead the game is mind numbingly slow and finishes with a score of 40-35. So even if the BS isn't accounting for the majority of kills, it IS vastly changing the gameplay in a negative way.
@ Doodi you are way too calm and rational. Please stop trolling our ranty thread! (but yeah, what you said is right)
@ Hunturic lol
@ Deep you must not have game induced ADD lol! Slow games are TORTUUUUUUURE!!
@ Ghost You nailed it.
Sadly I still enjoy coming into the Halo forums and attempting to shit on someones parade. Plus I tend to favor simple solutions over constant battles with no end. Although they are still fun to watch!
You sir are getting a temp ban. Which would mean we get the same amount of support we normally get from you..
Put me in the hate Boltshot camp. It's not that it's just overpowered...everyone has one and it stiffles game play. When I get a guy one or two shot and he gets around a corner, if I chase there is a 50/50 chance he will be sitting there with a boltshot...if so a coin flip on who dies. It makes me play even more campy on campy maps. They claim they want the game to flow and they put in bottlenecks.I looked at my stats. I have 15 boltshot kills and 59 deaths...I also do not think it considers my shield being weak and finished off with a melee. It encourages those who use it to camp...and those who don't use it to camp...not that I don't mind pitching tents.
Abandon:
bolt shot - 10 deaths
magnum - 9 deaths
Adrift:
BS - 21
mag - 32
Haven:
BS - 18
mag - 43
Solace:
BS - 25
mag - 15
so now i looked, and i feel no different.
with the stats above, it tells me nothing.
#1 i try not to fight in a CQC stiuation. i always try to keep my distance.
#2 i play SWAT on all of these maps. the numbers aren't true and there is no way to view them correctly.
Exile:
BS - 3
mag - 2
Meltdown:
one each
Vortex:
none each
Wreakage:
one each
Complex: (also a swat map)
BS - 11
mag - 25
Harvest:
BS - 3
MAG - 10
Longbow:
BS - 8
mag - 1
Shatter:
none each
i don't think these stats are useable for what we're looking for.
here we go...
Regicide: (no SWAT / all small maps & Complex)
BS - 35 deaths
mag - 19
again, i try to never be in melee range.
The boltshot doesn't need a nerf, it just needs to be taken out of the loadouts and made into an ordinance drop. Statistics are meaningless. I don't have a lot of deaths by railgun, but that doesn't mean I should be able to start with one. One person camping corners with a shotgun and camo is annoying. An entire team doing it ruins the game. Yes you can flush out campers but that's not fun for me, and it's not what I play Halo to do.