Here's a bone to chew on. This early H5 Beta may be signalling an early multiplayer release. I.E. for summer break.
That would be ideal. Always wondered why game companies didn't release their big games during the summer when kids are out of school. Especially Halo, when their release dates are always near CoD's release.
Same reason tv shows usually do a hiatus in the summer, mostly because of summer vacation, people are away or spending more time outside.
Deep, if you look at the Thursday games and Over 50 tourney's, the thing is the names that are participating are pretty much the same. There is not a lot of ebb and flow with newcomers in those games. That gives maybe at most 20-30 people that are playing those on a consistent basis. That is still an amazing feat thanks to your effort, but it is a certainly a far cry from the glory days of Halo when regularly scheduled games like MJ's drunkfest or regular tournaments required 4-5 rooms running or had a dozen or more teams.
The MCC is certainly welcome, but I am concerned how the population will be able to support being fractured amongst so many games.
Same reason tv shows usually do a hiatus in the summer, mostly because of summer vacation, people are away or spending more time outside.
Deep, if you look at the Thursday games and Over 50 tourney's, the thing is the names that are participating are pretty much the same. There is not a lot of ebb and flow with newcomers in those games. That gives maybe at most 20-30 people that are playing those on a consistent basis. That is still an amazing feat thanks to your effort, but it is a certainly a far cry from the glory days of Halo when regularly scheduled games like MJ's drunkfest or regular tournaments required 4-5 rooms running or had a dozen or more teams.
The MCC is certainly welcome, but I am concerned how the population will be able to support being fractured amongst so many games.
Oh yeah, I'm quite aware the names are mostly the same and nothing compares with the H2/H3 days. Consolidation has been occuring from some Clans and even other websties like Halo Diehards. We are seeing the last of the last players in our peer groups, I think.
Those people are going to be influenced by the new consoles and new games coming out. I know I am.
Regarding summer vacations, that's Halo's prime time for extended activity. It really is the third best time for Halo multiplayer after initial release and Christmas break. Halo 4 being the exception with it's extremely flat population profile now.
Same reason tv shows usually do a hiatus in the summer, mostly because of summer vacation, people are away or spending more time outside.
Deep, if you look at the Thursday games and Over 50 tourney's, the thing is the names that are participating are pretty much the same. There is not a lot of ebb and flow with newcomers in those games. That gives maybe at most 20-30 people that are playing those on a consistent basis. That is still an amazing feat thanks to your effort, but it is a certainly a far cry from the glory days of Halo when regularly scheduled games like MJ's drunkfest or regular tournaments required 4-5 rooms running or had a dozen or more teams.
The MCC is certainly welcome, but I am concerned how the population will be able to support being fractured amongst so many games.
There were three MJ drunkfests and they weren't any fun.
Mike James drunk is a solid 215% more annoying then Mike James sober.
If you want to know how to create sustainibility in a gaming title's multiplayer component and don't regard the opinion of a person that has been creating these events to full rooms of people for nine years then you don't really want to know how create sustainibility in a gaming title's multiplayer component. You just want to troll around until you find somebody that agrees that the narrow slice of the game you enjoy is the "right" way to play it.
Competitive multiplayer doesn't move systems or games. It can't even sustain it's own community. And you can trot out your keen observations from your own anemic friend's list or you can actually read what Frankie said. Most people that buy the game don't get a gold account. They play the campaign. From that stat, a smaller group goes into multiplayer matchmaking. Most of them play Big Team, an assload of them play zombie variants and grabass, a slightly smaller assload plays Team Snipers and a few disgruntled misanthropes hunker down in competitive playlists and fling poop at one another about whether 95% movement speed or 96.5% is the right way to play.
Maybe some title is the reason why this occurs, but since it has been the universal experience with every release of the game I prefer an Occam's razor approach. Competitive multiplayer killed competitive multiplayer. Your clan killed your clan. This site killed this site.
And BTW, the reports of all of these deaths have been greatly exaggerated, you're just getting old.
Same reason tv shows usually do a hiatus in the summer, mostly because of summer vacation, people are away or spending more time outside.
I think this is old thinking. TV shows prove this. They used to all go away from June-Sept, but now there is year round TV. Some shows don't even start until May now. People are spending more time in front of screens and less time playing in the yard. So, I think summer releases could have a huge chunk of time that they are exclusive. It would be really smart to be the only game in town in July.
To be clear. That's just some of my own wild speculation.
I know. Your speculation just brought about my questioning of why a company would release their blockbuster within a 2-3 week window of their biggest competitor.
maybe it was me in my bubble, but during the height of competitive MP MLG H3, the Halo community seemed to be doing great because of it.
BTW your quote is weird. Did you mean to quote something Deep said but then put your text inside of it?
Yeah. That was an accident. I meant to make fun of bluestar.
And Mike James.
And I'm not trying to argue that a robust community didn't develop around competitive multiplayer. Only that it didn't move systems or sustain itself for very long.
Comp communities as a whole have been very vocal about needing constant pampering from developers because of all the good they do for the game. My position has always been that if they could actually decide amongst themselves a set of standards that were relatable to the gaming population as a whole they would better serve not just the game but themselves as well.
Instead, Forge handed the keys to the Ferrari to a group of whiny adolescents more concerned with maintaining a playing style they were familiar with and they couldn't even play well with others let alone handle the complex dynamics of sustaining the community they stumbled upon in the first place.
So the teams we casual players were being asked to watch were constantly switching around based on who was banging who's girlfriend and the game they were playing drifted further and further away from the experience as it was happening and available on Xbox Live. Unless I wanted to exclusively game with a smaller pool of players in customs arguing about whether or not "Onslaught v8.512" was the "right" circle to run around.
I think to a certain extent Bungie and then 343 had a hand in exacerbating the split between the comp players and the bulk of the player population. I always think playlists should consolidate rather than proliferate as a game nears the end of it's cycle, but Deep has already very intelligently laid out that argument.
Wrapped within the community that developed here the death throes of Halo were less apparent to us all as a group maybe, but the number of MLG events declining, the cancellation of their television deal, the fragmentation of that group into competitors squabbling over an increasingly small pie all started with H3.
maybe it was me in my bubble, but during the height of competitive MP MLG H3, the Halo community seemed to be doing great because of it.
BTW your quote is weird. Did you mean to quote something Deep said but then put your text inside of it?
Yeah. That was an accident. I meant to make fun of bluestar.
And Mike James.
And I'm not trying to argue that a robust community didn't develop around competitive multiplayer. Only that it didn't move systems or sustain itself for very long.
Comp communities as a whole have been very vocal about needing constant pampering from developers because of all the good they do for the game. My position has always been that if they could actually decide amongst themselves a set of standards that were relatable to the gaming population as a whole they would better serve not just the game but themselves as well.
Instead, Forge handed the keys to the Ferrari to a group of whiny adolescents more concerned with maintaining a playing style they were familiar with and they couldn't even play well with others let alone handle the complex dynamics of sustaining the community they stumbled upon in the first place.
So the teams we casual players were being asked to watch were constantly switching around based on who was banging who's girlfriend and the game they were playing drifted further and further away from the experience as it was happening and available on Xbox Live. Unless I wanted to exclusively game with a smaller pool of players in customs arguing about whether or not "Onslaught v8.512" was the "right" circle to run around.
I think to a certain extent Bungie and then 343 had a hand in exacerbating the split between the comp players and the bulk of the player population. I always think playlists should consolidate rather than proliferate as a game nears the end of it's cycle, but Deep has already very intelligently laid out that argument.
Wrapped within the community that developed here the death throes of Halo were less apparent to us all as a group maybe, but the number of MLG events declining, the cancellation of their television deal, the fragmentation of that group into competitors squabbling over an increasingly small pie all started with H3.
It pains me to say so but I agree with this asshat. Now go sukadik bubba.
The November release dates for major games are probably due to companies going for the holiday sales. If they can get a "must have" title out just before Black Friday, they can generate a lot of hype for Christmas sales.
Reading the comments above is interesting. Forge / Customs is kind of a double-edged sword. On the one hand, some people love creating levels and playing on closed maps with friends. On the other hand, "canon" maps released by the developers are usually higher quality, better playtested, and better balanced due to all following the same standard physics, game rules, etc.
As far as what *killed* Halo, isn't the obvious answer Call of Duty? It's a much more popular game. Halo didn't used to have much competition in the multiplayer department. It certainly didn't used to have COD and Battlefield as it's primary competition. And those games appeal a lot more to players who are into realism and are less into the sci-fi aspect of Halo. And now that there's a new (or at least re-skinned) version of COD released every year vs. the comparitively long and stale life cycle of Halo, why would most gamers be interested in sticking around?
And then among the Halo players that are left, you have a schism in players there, with one crotchety group who bitches about the newest games (Yes you, Laser!) vs. newer fans like me who like the changes. And what do you get out of that? Anarchy, chaos in the streets, duels to the death, cats befriending dogs... It's a madhouse I tell you. A madhouse!
I went on a mini-tirade on Twitter a couple of days ago about Halo 4. Basically it was everything Laser posted above, so I won't reiterate, but even though the competitive community couldn't get all on one page with settings, one of the biggest hurdles was the lack of them! Settings that is. Like the inability to take off that frickin' huge indicator over your head when you have the flag or bomb.
If the competitive community wasn't squashed out of Halo by 343, who admitted from the start they didn't want Halo 4 to be competitive and did a ton of stuff to the game to discourage it, there would have been leaders in that community to help determine those settings. What I'm trying to say is, if the movement would have been bigger, MLG or a similar confident entity would have taken over, figured out settings that worked, and there would have been "settings". Without cohesion there was more chaos. I know of these things ;)
But the #1 thing that made me want to post was a culmination of two comments above. One mentioned Forge and all the settings we were given, and the other was part of one of Bubba's rants on not listening to people who can run a party for 8-9 years. Seriously, if I were creating a game, and I've said this over and over but I just can't stop because I'm THAT blown away that it's not being done, if I were creating a game, I would totally be consulting with the people out there who are successful at consistently running active parties. Successful Forgers, custom lobby party leaders, custom game creators, clan leaders - - all of these people have something that keep people coming back, and if I were a game creator these people would be the first people I would be picking brains on to figure out what it was.
They'd get free stuff for their trouble of course :D
But I also would give active party leaders free Gold and Microsoft credits (whatever the hell they're called nowadays), hell, I'd give them the next games free! Because these are the people who keep the other people coming back, which gets them to buy more content.
It's elementary.
So people like DEEP and some of the best Forgers I know would always get the new Halos free and never have to pay for Xbox Gold, as long as they stayed active or kept producing content. Maybe it would go by nomination, or something, lol.
I went on a mini-tirade on Twitter a couple of days ago about Halo 4. Basically it was everything Laser posted above, so I won't reiterate, but even though the competitive community couldn't get all on one page with settings, one of the biggest hurdles was the lack of them! Settings that is. Like the inability to take off that frickin' huge indicator over your head when you have the flag or bomb.
If the competitive community wasn't squashed out of Halo by 343, who admitted from the start they didn't want Halo 4 to be competitive and did a ton of stuff to the game to discourage it, there would have been leaders in that community to help determine those settings. What I'm trying to say is, if the movement would have been bigger, MLG or a similar confident entity would have taken over, figured out settings that worked, and there would have been "settings". Without cohesion there was more chaos. I know of these things ;)
But the #1 thing that made me want to post was a culmination of two comments above. One mentioned Forge and all the settings we were given, and the other was part of one of Bubba's rants on not listening to people who can run a party for 8-9 years. Seriously, if I were creating a game, and I've said this over and over but I just can't stop because I'm THAT blown away that it's not being done, if I were creating a game, I would totally be consulting with the people out there who are successful at consistently running active parties. Successful Forgers, custom lobby party leaders, custom game creators, clan leaders - - all of these people have something that keep people coming back, and if I were a game creator these people would be the first people I would be picking brains on to figure out what it was.
They'd get free stuff for their trouble of course :D
But I also would give active party leaders free Gold and Microsoft credits (whatever the hell they're called nowadays), hell, I'd give them the next games free! Because these are the people who keep the other people coming back, which gets them to buy more content.
It's elementary.
So people like DEEP and some of the best Forgers I know would always get the new Halos free and never have to pay for Xbox Gold, as long as they stayed active or kept producing content. Maybe it would go by nomination, or something, lol.
They'd get free stuff for their trouble of course :D
But I also would give active party leaders free Gold and Microsoft credits (whatever the hell they're called nowadays), hell, I'd give them the next games free! Because these are the people who keep the other people coming back, which gets them to buy more content.
It's elementary.
So people like DEEP and some of the best Forgers I know would always get the new Halos free and never have to pay for Xbox Gold, as long as they stayed active or kept producing content. Maybe it would go by nomination, or something, lol.
I forgot, 343i has given us a fair bit of stuff. All of those H4 GOD codes, Map pack codes and Avatars. That's represents several hundreds of dollars in free stuff.
Not every community gets that kind of stuff though.
If the Halo community was healthy, there would be no need for the idea of "free" stuff for people. The game should be reward enough to keep us excited. How sad is it that we have to discuss keeping a franchise alive and beg for scraps from 343's table?
Community leaders generally do stuff like customs for the enjoyment of the game AND for the enjoyment of gathering with like-minded individuals - with the occasional pat on the back for a job well done. I've always appreciated the people like DEEP, Addicted, Kenjamin, Yukon and the others that take the time to organize and lead parties - either in customs or matchmaking.
Yes, the majority of the people buy the game for campaign - then leave until the next one rolls out 3 years later. In the meantime, a few thousand of us are left to carry on the game and keep it "alive". However, we are certainly the most vocal and dedicated - in my opinion.
Halo can be strong again, IF 343 learns from the mistakes of Reach and H4. The Beta in December will be a true test of what 343 wants to really do with Halo. They have seen what works and what doesn't work. They have the stats and data from hundreds of thousands of MM games and the invaluable information to be had from various forums and opinions from all sorts of fans.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I like the idea of developers dropping a few freebies on the community. It might be superfluous but can it be something negative? Developers can't really buy gamers to play their games. It's not reasonably possible. I agree that a game can be it's own reward to gamers but does it hurt for a Developer to show enhanced good will?
The vocalization traits of many gamers who think they are the dedicated few who must be listened to, are not the kind I want prodding developers for me. Their message is often poisonous and backward thinking. There isn't a balanced response to that terrible message because satisfied people rarely stand on a soap box and rant about how much they like something. If they did, they'd be called numerous terrible things. What kind of society rates complaints higher than compliments? Ours I guess, but it doesn't seem correct. to me.
Look at the people who go into H4 MM everyday. Small though their number may be, are 'they' not the dedicated few? I've read time and again how these gamers are considered diluded, noobs, know-nothings, easily satisfied, low skilled, COD lovers and other similar negative references. Yet it is these same gamers who are carrying Halo's torch forward while a different group does nothing but denegrate them and the game they play. Who should a developer listen too, the vocal minority or the group which shows the greatest hope for the future?
Many have said they hoped 343i has learned from their mistakes in Reach and H4. I've never seen full agreement on what those mistakes were. It's quite likely 343i will fix mistakes but they are never going to satisfy the vocal minority.
Halo 1 and 2 were not just the only console fps worthy of the name at the time, they were good solid games. The quality, or lack thereof, of CoD, Battlefield and other games didn't necessarily take down the king, the choice did.
More control of gameplay led to a greater divide in gameplay styles.
That led to a divide in community.
I'm more worried that people will choose the option to play H3 and H4 in the MM lobby because they look pretty.
That makes me sad. I am much more excited to play Halo 1 online with you people than I should be.
Halo 1 and 2 were not just the only console fps worthy of the name at the time, they were good solid games. The quality, or lack thereof, of CoD, Battlefield and other games didn't necessarily take down the king, the choice did. More control of gameplay led to a greater divide in gameplay styles. That led to a divide in community. I'm more worried that people will choose the option to play H3 and H4 in the MM lobby because they look pretty. That makes me sad. I am much more excited to play Halo 1 online with you people than I should be.
I'm fairly sure the initial response to HCEA and H2 will be quite high. I'm equally sure it'll last no more than 3 months. It'll take all the will of gamers who like the older game styles to keep them alive. If they succeed, kudos to them. If they don't, well ....
I'll host what people are looking for during Site Wide Halo customs night. I presume we'll have enough people for more than 2 parties. That would allow for a variety of options.
Fascinating. Haters gonna hate no matter what is in front of them. To me the crucial test will be how many of the small but solid groups we have now (thanks much to Deep) will make the transition to the XBONE to play MCC.
When your population went from 500k to a little above 25k in less than a year, those vocal "minorities" may have a point. If you visit the hundreds to thousands of different forums, most of the complaints are similar. You would have a difficult time convincing me that a handful of people are posting on all the forums. I post on 2 forums, this and clan-destined. I doubt most people post on more than five. And it would be hypocritical at best to think that the non-vocal "majority" agree on everything. There are people out there that would change something in the game that you don't want changed. Difference is, they don't post about it, so you have no way of knowing they disagree with you. There is no perfect game that everyone will love.
When your population went from 500k to a little above 25k in less than a year, those vocal "minorities" may have a point. If you visit the hundreds to thousands of different forums, most of the complaints are similar. You would have a difficult time convincing me that a handful of people are posting on all the forums. I post on 2 forums, this and clan-destined. I doubt most people post on more than five. And it would be hypocritical at best to think that the non-vocal "majority" agree on everything. There are people out there that would change something in the game that you don't want changed. Difference is, they don't post about it, so you have no way of knowing they disagree with you. There is no perfect game that everyone will love.
The ones still playing Halo 4 are the Halo 4 diehards/people who pick up games in the bargain bin. People playing Halo 3 are the Halo 3 diehards. You'd see the same if Halo 2 was still available.
The more I think about it, the MCC is pretty much a bunch of fanservice, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. That fanservice has the ability to help fracture the Halo 5 community, though.
DEEP, I see nothing wrong with community freebies and promoting "good will" and all that sort of thing. However, thinking we may be owed something just because we choose to orgainize a community or expect special treatment may be questionable - even though those goodies would certainly be passed along to the community. I know I have received the occasional armor code or weapon skin from a community leader.
The game should be able to stand on it's own merits. The game should be able to keep people interested and inspired. If we take the attitude we are owed something, that seems to detract from the whole premise of playing a video game. Isn't all of this supposed to be fun?
How much fun would it be if you felt pressure from the developer (on top of what you already get from a community) to play, lead and/or forge new stuff? Granted, leading a party can feel like a job at times, but it should also come with a sense of enjoyment. If people start expecting their efforts should be noticed and rewarded, then perhaps they are doing things for the wrong reason.
Rewarding the forum/clan leaders is a really good idea, but game developers don't really need any gamer input to know what works and what people want. Each and every XBL game played generates a ton of data that proves what people want down to the smallest detail. Rotating maps, game types and playlists over time all tell the devs everything they need to know about future development - though having an online relationship with the gamers does generate loyalty.
With the MCC release, you can bet they'll be looking at the data to fine tune H5. In fact, I've wondered whether the release of MCC will be used mostly for that purpose. What modes, maps, game types and weapons are most popular will be incorporated into H5's MM. Do people really think H2's MM was best? We'll know if it is. Was H3's MM the best. And so on.
Rewarding the forum/clan leaders is a really good idea, but game developers don't really need any gamer input to know what works and what people want. Each and every XBL game played generates a ton of data that proves what people want down to the smallest detail.
These are just ingredients, doesn't mean they know how to cook them. Besides, custom game creators are doing things that aren't going to show up on these stats, because they're working with variables that I'm willing to bet aren't on the stats, such as game length, modded gametypes, and forged maps that create a better play experience than the game experience the lopsided crap maps the game shipped with creates. Don't get me wrong, they're beautiful, but they play like shite if they're unfairly balanced for one team or the other as many H4 maps are. <<I have a ton more examples that keep me awake at night ;p
HEY DEEP!!! Waypoint (Bravo) answered your MCCollection question in the 6-19 bulletin...
Q: Will Forge for The Master Chief Collection be a 'unified' experience or will there be a separate Forge application for each applicable Halo title? -DEEP NNN
A: We’ll be able to share more about Forge specifics in the coming months. For now, we can confirm that Halo 3, Halo 4, and the six re-mastered Halo 2 Anniversary maps will be Forgeable.
Same reason tv shows usually do a hiatus in the summer, mostly because of summer vacation, people are away or spending more time outside.
Deep, if you look at the Thursday games and Over 50 tourney's, the thing is the names that are participating are pretty much the same. There is not a lot of ebb and flow with newcomers in those games. That gives maybe at most 20-30 people that are playing those on a consistent basis. That is still an amazing feat thanks to your effort, but it is a certainly a far cry from the glory days of Halo when regularly scheduled games like MJ's drunkfest or regular tournaments required 4-5 rooms running or had a dozen or more teams.
The MCC is certainly welcome, but I am concerned how the population will be able to support being fractured amongst so many games.
Those people are going to be influenced by the new consoles and new games coming out. I know I am.
Regarding summer vacations, that's Halo's prime time for extended activity. It really is the third best time for Halo multiplayer after initial release and Christmas break. Halo 4 being the exception with it's extremely flat population profile now.
There were three MJ drunkfests and they weren't any fun.
Mike James drunk is a solid 215% more annoying then Mike James sober.
If you want to know how to create sustainibility in a gaming title's multiplayer component and don't regard the opinion of a person that has been creating these events to full rooms of people for nine years then you don't really want to know how create sustainibility in a gaming title's multiplayer component. You just want to troll around until you find somebody that agrees that the narrow slice of the game you enjoy is the "right" way to play it.
Competitive multiplayer doesn't move systems or games. It can't even sustain it's own community. And you can trot out your keen observations from your own anemic friend's list or you can actually read what Frankie said. Most people that buy the game don't get a gold account. They play the campaign. From that stat, a smaller group goes into multiplayer matchmaking. Most of them play Big Team, an assload of them play zombie variants and grabass, a slightly smaller assload plays Team Snipers and a few disgruntled misanthropes hunker down in competitive playlists and fling poop at one another about whether 95% movement speed or 96.5% is the right way to play.
Maybe some title is the reason why this occurs, but since it has been the universal experience with every release of the game I prefer an Occam's razor approach. Competitive multiplayer killed competitive multiplayer. Your clan killed your clan. This site killed this site.
And BTW, the reports of all of these deaths have been greatly exaggerated, you're just getting old.
I think this is old thinking. TV shows prove this. They used to all go away from June-Sept, but now there is year round TV. Some shows don't even start until May now. People are spending more time in front of screens and less time playing in the yard. So, I think summer releases could have a huge chunk of time that they are exclusive. It would be really smart to be the only game in town in July.
To be clear. That's just some of my own wild speculation.
maybe it was me in my bubble, but during the height of competitive MP MLG H3, the Halo community seemed to be doing great because of it.
BTW your quote is weird. Did you mean to quote something Deep said but then put your text inside of it?
Yeah. That was an accident. I meant to make fun of bluestar.
And Mike James.
And I'm not trying to argue that a robust community didn't develop around competitive multiplayer. Only that it didn't move systems or sustain itself for very long.
Comp communities as a whole have been very vocal about needing constant pampering from developers because of all the good they do for the game. My position has always been that if they could actually decide amongst themselves a set of standards that were relatable to the gaming population as a whole they would better serve not just the game but themselves as well.
Instead, Forge handed the keys to the Ferrari to a group of whiny adolescents more concerned with maintaining a playing style they were familiar with and they couldn't even play well with others let alone handle the complex dynamics of sustaining the community they stumbled upon in the first place.
So the teams we casual players were being asked to watch were constantly switching around based on who was banging who's girlfriend and the game they were playing drifted further and further away from the experience as it was happening and available on Xbox Live. Unless I wanted to exclusively game with a smaller pool of players in customs arguing about whether or not "Onslaught v8.512" was the "right" circle to run around.
I think to a certain extent Bungie and then 343 had a hand in exacerbating the split between the comp players and the bulk of the player population. I always think playlists should consolidate rather than proliferate as a game nears the end of it's cycle, but Deep has already very intelligently laid out that argument.
Wrapped within the community that developed here the death throes of Halo were less apparent to us all as a group maybe, but the number of MLG events declining, the cancellation of their television deal, the fragmentation of that group into competitors squabbling over an increasingly small pie all started with H3.
It pains me to say so but I agree with this asshat. Now go sukadik bubba.
I have no intention of ever getting on the wrong side of Bubba.
Ever.
The November release dates for major games are probably due to companies going for the holiday sales. If they can get a "must have" title out just before Black Friday, they can generate a lot of hype for Christmas sales.
Reading the comments above is interesting. Forge / Customs is kind of a double-edged sword. On the one hand, some people love creating levels and playing on closed maps with friends. On the other hand, "canon" maps released by the developers are usually higher quality, better playtested, and better balanced due to all following the same standard physics, game rules, etc.
As far as what *killed* Halo, isn't the obvious answer Call of Duty? It's a much more popular game. Halo didn't used to have much competition in the multiplayer department. It certainly didn't used to have COD and Battlefield as it's primary competition. And those games appeal a lot more to players who are into realism and are less into the sci-fi aspect of Halo. And now that there's a new (or at least re-skinned) version of COD released every year vs. the comparitively long and stale life cycle of Halo, why would most gamers be interested in sticking around?
And then among the Halo players that are left, you have a schism in players there, with one crotchety group who bitches about the newest games (Yes you, Laser!) vs. newer fans like me who like the changes. And what do you get out of that? Anarchy, chaos in the streets, duels to the death, cats befriending dogs... It's a madhouse I tell you. A madhouse!
This thread just got highly entertaining!
I went on a mini-tirade on Twitter a couple of days ago about Halo 4. Basically it was everything Laser posted above, so I won't reiterate, but even though the competitive community couldn't get all on one page with settings, one of the biggest hurdles was the lack of them! Settings that is. Like the inability to take off that frickin' huge indicator over your head when you have the flag or bomb.
If the competitive community wasn't squashed out of Halo by 343, who admitted from the start they didn't want Halo 4 to be competitive and did a ton of stuff to the game to discourage it, there would have been leaders in that community to help determine those settings. What I'm trying to say is, if the movement would have been bigger, MLG or a similar confident entity would have taken over, figured out settings that worked, and there would have been "settings". Without cohesion there was more chaos. I know of these things ;)
But the #1 thing that made me want to post was a culmination of two comments above. One mentioned Forge and all the settings we were given, and the other was part of one of Bubba's rants on not listening to people who can run a party for 8-9 years. Seriously, if I were creating a game, and I've said this over and over but I just can't stop because I'm THAT blown away that it's not being done, if I were creating a game, I would totally be consulting with the people out there who are successful at consistently running active parties. Successful Forgers, custom lobby party leaders, custom game creators, clan leaders - - all of these people have something that keep people coming back, and if I were a game creator these people would be the first people I would be picking brains on to figure out what it was.
They'd get free stuff for their trouble of course :D
But I also would give active party leaders free Gold and Microsoft credits (whatever the hell they're called nowadays), hell, I'd give them the next games free! Because these are the people who keep the other people coming back, which gets them to buy more content.
It's elementary.
So people like DEEP and some of the best Forgers I know would always get the new Halos free and never have to pay for Xbox Gold, as long as they stayed active or kept producing content. Maybe it would go by nomination, or something, lol.
[EDIT: NOT GIVING TIMMIES POWER, DAMMIT!! WHAT WERE YOU THINKING 343!]
vigorous applause.
Not every community gets that kind of stuff though.
I want Addicted for President (Prime Minister in my case).
Free toys, love it.
Also, I agree, very stimulating conversation.
Also, thanks for the votes of confidence. Adds some skip to my step.
If the Halo community was healthy, there would be no need for the idea of "free" stuff for people. The game should be reward enough to keep us excited. How sad is it that we have to discuss keeping a franchise alive and beg for scraps from 343's table?
Community leaders generally do stuff like customs for the enjoyment of the game AND for the enjoyment of gathering with like-minded individuals - with the occasional pat on the back for a job well done. I've always appreciated the people like DEEP, Addicted, Kenjamin, Yukon and the others that take the time to organize and lead parties - either in customs or matchmaking.
Yes, the majority of the people buy the game for campaign - then leave until the next one rolls out 3 years later. In the meantime, a few thousand of us are left to carry on the game and keep it "alive". However, we are certainly the most vocal and dedicated - in my opinion.
Halo can be strong again, IF 343 learns from the mistakes of Reach and H4. The Beta in December will be a true test of what 343 wants to really do with Halo. They have seen what works and what doesn't work. They have the stats and data from hundreds of thousands of MM games and the invaluable information to be had from various forums and opinions from all sorts of fans.
Time will tell.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I like the idea of developers dropping a few freebies on the community. It might be superfluous but can it be something negative? Developers can't really buy gamers to play their games. It's not reasonably possible. I agree that a game can be it's own reward to gamers but does it hurt for a Developer to show enhanced good will?
The vocalization traits of many gamers who think they are the dedicated few who must be listened to, are not the kind I want prodding developers for me. Their message is often poisonous and backward thinking. There isn't a balanced response to that terrible message because satisfied people rarely stand on a soap box and rant about how much they like something. If they did, they'd be called numerous terrible things. What kind of society rates complaints higher than compliments? Ours I guess, but it doesn't seem correct. to me.
Look at the people who go into H4 MM everyday. Small though their number may be, are 'they' not the dedicated few? I've read time and again how these gamers are considered diluded, noobs, know-nothings, easily satisfied, low skilled, COD lovers and other similar negative references. Yet it is these same gamers who are carrying Halo's torch forward while a different group does nothing but denegrate them and the game they play. Who should a developer listen too, the vocal minority or the group which shows the greatest hope for the future?
Many have said they hoped 343i has learned from their mistakes in Reach and H4. I've never seen full agreement on what those mistakes were. It's quite likely 343i will fix mistakes but they are never going to satisfy the vocal minority.
I'll host what people are looking for during Site Wide Halo customs night. I presume we'll have enough people for more than 2 parties. That would allow for a variety of options.
Fascinating. Haters gonna hate no matter what is in front of them. To me the crucial test will be how many of the small but solid groups we have now (thanks much to Deep) will make the transition to the XBONE to play MCC.
I doubt it. You can still play H3-4 on 360 on XBL right now. Not so with Halo 1-2. I think those will be the most played.
The ones still playing Halo 4 are the Halo 4 diehards/people who pick up games in the bargain bin. People playing Halo 3 are the Halo 3 diehards. You'd see the same if Halo 2 was still available.
The more I think about it, the MCC is pretty much a bunch of fanservice, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. That fanservice has the ability to help fracture the Halo 5 community, though.
DEEP, I see nothing wrong with community freebies and promoting "good will" and all that sort of thing. However, thinking we may be owed something just because we choose to orgainize a community or expect special treatment may be questionable - even though those goodies would certainly be passed along to the community. I know I have received the occasional armor code or weapon skin from a community leader.
The game should be able to stand on it's own merits. The game should be able to keep people interested and inspired. If we take the attitude we are owed something, that seems to detract from the whole premise of playing a video game. Isn't all of this supposed to be fun?
How much fun would it be if you felt pressure from the developer (on top of what you already get from a community) to play, lead and/or forge new stuff? Granted, leading a party can feel like a job at times, but it should also come with a sense of enjoyment. If people start expecting their efforts should be noticed and rewarded, then perhaps they are doing things for the wrong reason.
Rewarding the forum/clan leaders is a really good idea, but game developers don't really need any gamer input to know what works and what people want. Each and every XBL game played generates a ton of data that proves what people want down to the smallest detail. Rotating maps, game types and playlists over time all tell the devs everything they need to know about future development - though having an online relationship with the gamers does generate loyalty.
With the MCC release, you can bet they'll be looking at the data to fine tune H5. In fact, I've wondered whether the release of MCC will be used mostly for that purpose. What modes, maps, game types and weapons are most popular will be incorporated into H5's MM. Do people really think H2's MM was best? We'll know if it is. Was H3's MM the best. And so on.
These are just ingredients, doesn't mean they know how to cook them. Besides, custom game creators are doing things that aren't going to show up on these stats, because they're working with variables that I'm willing to bet aren't on the stats, such as game length, modded gametypes, and forged maps that create a better play experience than the game experience the lopsided crap maps the game shipped with creates. Don't get me wrong, they're beautiful, but they play like shite if they're unfairly balanced for one team or the other as many H4 maps are. <<I have a ton more examples that keep me awake at night ;p
Crap, wrong topic.
HEY DEEP!!! Waypoint (Bravo) answered your MCCollection question in the 6-19 bulletin...
Q: Will Forge for The Master Chief Collection be a 'unified' experience or will there be a separate Forge application for each applicable Halo title?
-DEEP NNN
A: We’ll be able to share more about Forge specifics in the coming months. For now, we can confirm that Halo 3, Halo 4, and the six re-mastered Halo 2 Anniversary maps will be Forgeable.