I'm on the fence with JIP. For BTB I think its a good thing, but for the smaller playlists I don't care much for it. The JIP, no visable rank and the xp are going to take some of the competitivness out of MM.
What's the point in making bigger maps just to fuck up the controller scheme and give everyone sprint. Sprint was and is very useful in Reach. seems like it won't be as much so in H4.
It doesn't get more casual that call of duty. Pop in the game run around (or camp if that's your flavor) and get some kills. hell, you don't even really have to aim or strafe.
And then, if you get enough...you get a killstreak reward (carepackage/ordinance drop/w.t.f.ever. )
I play Halo exclusively now, and have for quite some time. I only played MW3 when I had a friend on playing MW3 that that's all he played. He's back to halo again....
If they keep alienating the people that helped give them the "Halo" name recognition, then the games won't sell.
Its hard for me to think that H4 will not be better than Reach, but who knows I pretty sure George Lucas is calling the shots at 343. He knows how to fuck up a great franchise. If I see JarJar in the campaign I know we are doomed.
You know, being a game developer is not an easy task. Everywhere you turn people are praising you and cussing you.
Let's say Reach was just a slightly tweaked version of Halo 3 - not AAs, no bloom. Then Halo 4 was going to be more of the same - again with no real changes to the series. Do people honestly think making the same game over and over again is preferrable? OK, maybe that's a bad example seeing how people continue to play COD.
However, do people want the same Halo over and over again? Do you not think that would then be the source of frustration from fans stating Halo is getting stale and it's the same game every time?
If Halo 4 can improve on some of Reach's fumbles, I think we have the potential to see a renewed interest in Halo. Sure, we'll probably still get mopped up by COD for XBL population, but I want a game that will keep people excited to play. Reach just didn't do this for me, so I have hopes H4 will be that game.
However, do people want the same Halo over and over again? Do you not think that would then be the source of frustration from fans stating Halo is getting stale and it's the same game every time?
Specifically at the end of Halo 2's run. It was a frequent occurance to here friends say, "I'm done with this game". Some of those same people never even bothered to get Halo 3. Others stopped playing shortly after.
Not really proof of anything but people do get tired of too much of the same thing.
You know, being a game developer is not an easy task. Everywhere you turn people are praising you and cussing you.
Let's say Reach was just a slightly tweaked version of Halo 3 - not AAs, no bloom. Then Halo 4 was going to be more of the same - again with no real changes to the series. Do people honestly think making the same game over and over again is preferrable? OK, maybe that's a bad example seeing how people continue to play COD.
However, do people want the same Halo over and over again? Do you not think that would then be the source of frustration from fans stating Halo is getting stale and it's the same game every time?
If Halo 4 can improve on some of Reach's fumbles, I think we have the potential to see a renewed interest in Halo. Sure, we'll probably still get mopped up by COD for XBL population, but I want a game that will keep people excited to play. Reach just didn't do this for me, so I have hopes H4 will be that game.
Keep the faith!
I agree with you that Halo needs to evolve to stay alive. I think CoD is coming to the point also where they will need to make big changes to keep the masses coming. I do have some worries about H4 mainly the AAs, but overall I think it will be a great game.
What happend to the invisible ranking system, where you can only see your own?
as I said - there is more to say later. Let me be clear about one thing - the game tracks and accounts very rich skill data. Sorry for vagueness but clarity is coming.
My guess on aftermarket API data mining is probably correct.
I think they said they were permitting this.
Yeah but I meant to say this specifically with reference to Visible Skill.
I can't imagine the result of this data mining being shown in game but maybe an App will be made that somehow allows quick Visible Skill viewing from an XBox or Smart Phone.
I suppose a Smart phone app like ATLAS (used to show player positions on maps in real time) could report Visible Skill for players.
I would like to see W/L and k/d in a quick service record menu. If not for bragging rights, so I don't have to constantly be checking websites for my info.
I can only guess that having JiP enabled across all playlists had something to do with this decision, so I now will focus my anger in it's direction. Nothing says fun like joining a match as it's ending on the losing side.
I can only guess that having JiP enabled across all playlists had something to do with this decision, so I now will focus my anger in it's direction. Nothing says fun like joining a match as it's ending on the losing side.
JIP confirmed to not happen in the latter part of a game.
I haven't read it was enabled for all playlists yet either.
I can only guess that having JiP enabled across all playlists had something to do with this decision, so I now will focus my anger in it's direction. Nothing says fun like joining a match as it's ending on the losing side.
JIP confirmed to not happen in the latter part of a game.
I haven't read it was enabled for all playlists yet either.
In the Kevin Franklin interview with Bravo you posted up, he said it will be implemented across all. I may have misheard, but I'm fairly certain it's in all playlists.
I can only guess that having JiP enabled across all playlists had something to do with this decision, so I now will focus my anger in it's direction. Nothing says fun like joining a match as it's ending on the losing side.
JIP confirmed to not happen in the latter part of a game.
I haven't read it was enabled for all playlists yet either.
In the Kevin Franklin interview with Bravo you posted up, he said it will be implemented across all. I may have misheard, but I'm fairly certain it's in all playlists.
Well then you're both right. DEEP didn't read that it was in all playlists, and it was said in that interview it'd be across all.
I think they are going to tie in surface/tablet/smartphone app with a big chunk of stats for H4. This will probably have all the visible rank/stats you could ask for plus some.
To be honest if by moving that stuff out of in game to external sources means they get to use that on additional game resources (smoothness of game play, visuals, etc.) I am all for it. I mean I think it is a safe bet the majority of the H4 playing population has either a smartphone, tablet, extra monitor next to them when they play where they can get that data without having to boot up a 9600 bps modem somewhere.
We have not see to much mentioned on how surface/tablet is tieing into using H4 which them mentioned will be happening.
if by moving that stuff out of in game to external sources means they get to use that on additional game resources (smoothness of game play, visuals, etc.) I am all for it.
Everything added/subtracted to the game has a cost/reward to the resources needed to run the game.
If having a visible ranking system in the game before, during and after has ZERO effect on how the game runs (in all aspects of game play) then yeah I do not see why it should be left out.
But obviously it has some outcome or system resources drain that has been deemed too much to be put in. I assume it was way more complicated then "Hey H2 had it, lets just copy and paste the code".
I am also assuming the "secrect sauce" ranking system does a calculation based on the following factors, Wins, Loses, Kills, deaths, Assists, Medals and other stuff. Now take all those factors and then tell the system to keep pinging those factors every milisecond of the game for every player and the drain on the game resources is compounded to the X degree.
I kind of look at it like Forge. People may want to put 16 banshees on a map and have air battles but that would pull too many system resources to be able to run properly. That is why there is a "dollar cost" to each item added to a map. You get X amount of dollars to spend so the map runs correctly. We all know how well that works with visual glitches that (some) forge maps have. So now imagine every single MM game has to use game resources that could have been used elsewhere to show a rank.
I mean everything I said above could be moot, for all we know somewhere in the system they could have it, it might not be visible in game, maybe in an easy to get to submenu to view before or after game. But I doubt it.
but why should i have to look up the skill of the poeple i'm playing against on another device when it can be displayed in game?
I can understand hiding some of the metrics and what not, like TrueSkill away, because that leads to more exploitation, but I'm completely with you. If they do the math and do the rankings, and have it all in, and if it's even taken into account when finding a match, why not display it right there?
but why should i have to look up the skill of the poeple i'm playing against on another device when it can be displayed in game?
I can understand hiding some of the metrics and what not, like TrueSkill away, because that leads to more exploitation, but I'm completely with you. If they do the math and do the rankings, and have it all in, and if it's even taken into account when finding a match, why not display it right there?
Bah! I wrote a bunch of stuff but it's a waste of time.
I wish that those who want it can have it and those who could care less, to not have endure any side effects because it does exists. Problem solved.
but why should i have to look up the skill of the poeple i'm playing against on another device when it can be displayed in game?
I can understand hiding some of the metrics and what not, like TrueSkill away, because that leads to more exploitation, but I'm completely with you. If they do the math and do the rankings, and have it all in, and if it's even taken into account when finding a match, why not display it right there?
Bah! I wrote a bunch of stuff but it's a waste of time.
I wish that those who want it can have it and those who could care less, to not have endure any side effects because it does exists. Problem solved.
Why fracture the community further? If you want ranked play, go into that hopper. If you don't, go into another hopper. That's all you really need.
I do not want to have to open up an app or webpage on any other device to view my stats in game. API stats are great, but are not an adequate indicator of how I stand against everyone else....
Apparently I am set into yet another 1% category....
See, Deep, the problem is known. You've pointed out many times that the competitive playlists lag in participation to the social side. The solution is to bring their populations to parity, not to do away with the "competitive" playlist.
See, Deep, the problem is known. You've pointed out many times that the competitive playlists lag in participation to the social side. The solution is to bring their populations to parity, not to do away with the "competitive" playlist.
I'm not against Competitive playlists in Halo 4. They are no threat to me. Silliness like increasing the base player speed, before anyone has actually asked for it (not that I am aware of), is a threat to anyone interested in increasing the competitive player population. New player sees "Slayer Pro, increased base speed" says "Nope" every time.
I think people in this topic and many other topics are getting confused between Visible Skill (1-50 aka Halo 2 and 3), True Skill + playlist matching formulae and EXP based ranking. I just got griefed a bit on HBO for accidentally saying "visible ranks" instead of visible skill.
REACH has skill matched playlists for most if not all playlists. Trouble is, its implementation isn't so good and suffers greatly when the population is low.
Halo 4 will have an improved skill matching system for most if not all playlists. It's supposed to be improved over REACH plus with fewer playlists the population per list should be much higher. Higher populations equals bigger pools for skill matching and host selection. So 343i says.
Not surprisingly, people who don't see a 1-50 next to player names and then go into REACH MM only to get crushed, get bad team mates and split screeners, automatically think there isn't any skill matching in play. Such is not the case and no 1-50 will ever fix that.
See, Deep, the problem is known. You've pointed out many times that the competitive playlists lag in participation to the social side. The solution is to bring their populations to parity, not to do away with the "competitive" playlist.
I'm not against Competitive playlists in Halo 4. They are no threat to me. Silliness like increasing the base player speed, before anyone has actually asked for it (not that I am aware of), is a threat to anyone interested in increasing the competitive player population. New player sees "Slayer Pro, increased base speed" says "Nope" every time.
I think people in this topic and many other topics are getting confused between Visible Skill (1-50 aka Halo 2 and 3), True Skill + playlist matching formulae and EXP based ranking. I just got griefed a bit on HBO for accidentally saying "visible ranks" instead of visible skill.
REACH has skill matched playlists for most if not all playlists. Trouble is, its implementation isn't so good and suffers greatly when the population is low.
Halo 4 will have an improved skill matching system for most if not all playlists. It's supposed to be improved over REACH plus with fewer playlists the population per list should be much higher. Higher populations equals bigger pools for skill matching and host selection. So 343i says.
Not surprisingly, people who don't see a 1-50 next to player names and then go into REACH MM only to get crushed, get bad team mates and split screeners, automatically think there isn't any skill matching in play. Such is not the case and no 1-50 will ever fix that.
You say that first paragraph like MLG hasn't been actively involved with tinkering with Halo 4 for a while now. You, of all people, know better. You say "'nope' every time", yet that's the first act of balancing the game out and, dare I say, improving it.
I would hope any JiP playlists will not take into account true skill rank. For reasons.
I'm on the fence with JIP. For BTB I think its a good thing, but for the smaller playlists I don't care much for it. The JIP, no visable rank and the xp are going to take some of the competitivness out of MM.
Are they still going to penalize quitters?
What's the point in making bigger maps just to fuck up the controller scheme and give everyone sprint. Sprint was and is very useful in Reach. seems like it won't be as much so in H4.
It doesn't get more casual that call of duty. Pop in the game run around (or camp if that's your flavor) and get some kills. hell, you don't even really have to aim or strafe.
And then, if you get enough...you get a killstreak reward (carepackage/ordinance drop/w.t.f.ever. )
I play Halo exclusively now, and have for quite some time. I only played MW3 when I had a friend on playing MW3 that that's all he played. He's back to halo again....
If they keep alienating the people that helped give them the "Halo" name recognition, then the games won't sell.
Its hard for me to think that H4 will not be better than Reach, but who knows I pretty sure George Lucas is calling the shots at 343. He knows how to fuck up a great franchise. If I see JarJar in the campaign I know we are doomed.
You know, being a game developer is not an easy task. Everywhere you turn people are praising you and cussing you.
Let's say Reach was just a slightly tweaked version of Halo 3 - not AAs, no bloom. Then Halo 4 was going to be more of the same - again with no real changes to the series. Do people honestly think making the same game over and over again is preferrable? OK, maybe that's a bad example seeing how people continue to play COD.
However, do people want the same Halo over and over again? Do you not think that would then be the source of frustration from fans stating Halo is getting stale and it's the same game every time?
If Halo 4 can improve on some of Reach's fumbles, I think we have the potential to see a renewed interest in Halo. Sure, we'll probably still get mopped up by COD for XBL population, but I want a game that will keep people excited to play. Reach just didn't do this for me, so I have hopes H4 will be that game.
Keep the faith!
Not really proof of anything but people do get tired of too much of the same thing.
I agree with you that Halo needs to evolve to stay alive. I think CoD is coming to the point also where they will need to make big changes to keep the masses coming. I do have some worries about H4 mainly the AAs, but overall I think it will be a great game.
So, no visible Skill in Halo 4.
A conversation on NeoGAF regarding visible skill rankings.
Frankie 10.13.12
My guess on aftermarket API data mining is probably correct.
I think they said they were permitting this.
I can't imagine the result of this data mining being shown in game but maybe an App will be made that somehow allows quick Visible Skill viewing from an XBox or Smart Phone.
I suppose a Smart phone app like ATLAS (used to show player positions on maps in real time) could report Visible Skill for players.
I would like to see W/L and k/d in a quick service record menu. If not for bragging rights, so I don't have to constantly be checking websites for my info.
It really will be unfortunate.
I can only guess that having JiP enabled across all playlists had something to do with this decision, so I now will focus my anger in it's direction. Nothing says fun like joining a match as it's ending on the losing side.
I haven't read it was enabled for all playlists yet either.
In the Kevin Franklin interview with Bravo you posted up, he said it will be implemented across all. I may have misheard, but I'm fairly certain it's in all playlists.
Well then you're both right. DEEP didn't read that it was in all playlists, and it was said in that interview it'd be across all.
:P
Frankie 10.14.12
Apologies.
In my late night fogginess (happens anytime actually), I was using Rank in my posts. It was supposed to be Visible Skill.
I think they are going to tie in surface/tablet/smartphone app with a big chunk of stats for H4. This will probably have all the visible rank/stats you could ask for plus some.
To be honest if by moving that stuff out of in game to external sources means they get to use that on additional game resources (smoothness of game play, visuals, etc.) I am all for it. I mean I think it is a safe bet the majority of the H4 playing population has either a smartphone, tablet, extra monitor next to them when they play where they can get that data without having to boot up a 9600 bps modem somewhere.
We have not see to much mentioned on how surface/tablet is tieing into using H4 which them mentioned will be happening.
Everything added/subtracted to the game has a cost/reward to the resources needed to run the game.
If having a visible ranking system in the game before, during and after has ZERO effect on how the game runs (in all aspects of game play) then yeah I do not see why it should be left out.
But obviously it has some outcome or system resources drain that has been deemed too much to be put in. I assume it was way more complicated then "Hey H2 had it, lets just copy and paste the code".
I am also assuming the "secrect sauce" ranking system does a calculation based on the following factors, Wins, Loses, Kills, deaths, Assists, Medals and other stuff. Now take all those factors and then tell the system to keep pinging those factors every milisecond of the game for every player and the drain on the game resources is compounded to the X degree.
I kind of look at it like Forge. People may want to put 16 banshees on a map and have air battles but that would pull too many system resources to be able to run properly. That is why there is a "dollar cost" to each item added to a map. You get X amount of dollars to spend so the map runs correctly. We all know how well that works with visual glitches that (some) forge maps have. So now imagine every single MM game has to use game resources that could have been used elsewhere to show a rank.
I mean everything I said above could be moot, for all we know somewhere in the system they could have it, it might not be visible in game, maybe in an easy to get to submenu to view before or after game. But I doubt it.
but why should i have to look up the skill of the poeple i'm playing against on another device when it can be displayed in game?
I can understand hiding some of the metrics and what not, like TrueSkill away, because that leads to more exploitation, but I'm completely with you. If they do the math and do the rankings, and have it all in, and if it's even taken into account when finding a match, why not display it right there?
I wish that those who want it can have it and those who could care less, to not have endure any side effects because it does exists. Problem solved.
Why fracture the community further? If you want ranked play, go into that hopper. If you don't, go into another hopper. That's all you really need.
in game toggle. why not, right?
I do not want to have to open up an app or webpage on any other device to view my stats in game. API stats are great, but are not an adequate indicator of how I stand against everyone else....
Apparently I am set into yet another 1% category....
See, Deep, the problem is known. You've pointed out many times that the competitive playlists lag in participation to the social side. The solution is to bring their populations to parity, not to do away with the "competitive" playlist.
I think people in this topic and many other topics are getting confused between Visible Skill (1-50 aka Halo 2 and 3), True Skill + playlist matching formulae and EXP based ranking. I just got griefed a bit on HBO for accidentally saying "visible ranks" instead of visible skill.
REACH has skill matched playlists for most if not all playlists. Trouble is, its implementation isn't so good and suffers greatly when the population is low.
Halo 4 will have an improved skill matching system for most if not all playlists. It's supposed to be improved over REACH plus with fewer playlists the population per list should be much higher. Higher populations equals bigger pools for skill matching and host selection. So 343i says.
Not surprisingly, people who don't see a 1-50 next to player names and then go into REACH MM only to get crushed, get bad team mates and split screeners, automatically think there isn't any skill matching in play. Such is not the case and no 1-50 will ever fix that.
You say that first paragraph like MLG hasn't been actively involved with tinkering with Halo 4 for a while now. You, of all people, know better. You say "'nope' every time", yet that's the first act of balancing the game out and, dare I say, improving it.