Ghost town was fun for 1 flag, swat, and shotty snipers. I don't know where you guys are getting all the hate from. It wasn't a great map, but there were some good times had on that map.
One of my favorites was a black and white rendition which we played swat with a pistol on. It was super fun.
The more I play this new map pack, the less I like it. Too much clutter.
The sightlines were cut off from a lot of places. If you were inside the buildings, you had to have folks come to you, creating a snoozefest. Hell, even if you were in the pipes, way back behind that one spawn, it was a boring campfest. Just cluttered, ugly, and unfun, and the first of the maps that was seemingly inspired by Call Of Duty.
I think I understand where you are coming from. It's the game style you prefer and how it works on a map that makes the difference.
Like Double T, 2old2pwn members always liked playing on Ghost Town and we frequently had 16 on it. Never dull and never a snoozefest. Not the best scenario for skillz but my god we had fun.
[b]The only true negative for me was getting caught up on some geometry, which was usually my fault for hanging around those bad areas. Not always though because some geometry shouldn't have caused problems.[/b]
some highlights for effect...
Winner. Winner. Chicken Dinner.
This is really what it all comes down to Deep. You can make a beautiful map and keep it clutter free. Go nuts with the backdrop/skybox/theme of the map. I really don't care, but please, please, please do not let that theme affect the gameplay that will be had there. Forerunner and Covy themed maps have always been favorites because the sightlines were nice and the textures were simple and smooth. While the Human ones were always angular, cluttered, and well, human.
Past maps always felt more versatile. Maybe it was a combination of things.
skyline and landfall are both smaller than i wanted and to cluttered with useless obstacles, but I'd rather have that than another gigantic map polluted with to many vehicles.
a simple fix for these New maps is to eliminate so many power weapons from them.
Oddball on Monolith with a large group was a blast. Skyline was enjoyable. Landfall with a big group and Infinity Slayer was very good. The clutter was my friend but I don't have a good sense of direction on it yet.
With Landfall, I feel the size is actually fine for it. 4v4 and 8 player FFA work on it without much time needed to find action.
However, consider Landfall if it had 8v8 slayer on it. It'd be far too small. It'd be chaos everywhere and a complete inability to breathe without being already shot at upon spawning.
So while it seems big for a 4v4, I don't think it is too big for that gametype. I feel it could be too large for a 2v2 mode though.
As far as power weapons go, there are repeatedly spawning rockets on Monolith and Landfall. Definitely a point of interest. However, it actually hearkens back to the earlier Halo days where weapons were timed. The main difference is the icons pointing to the fact they've spawned.
CTF on Skyline was very fast paced, and enjoyable.
Instead of quoting me you edited my post and added stuff. Guessed it was you. No?
Not I, although excessive geometry is a problem on these maps.
Sorry, it was Hoplite. His writing style was similar to yours.
Deep, how many times did you get hung up moving around some of the maps in previous Halo games? It happens a little more these days. At least Creative Affinity did learn to put that invisible barrier over things to enable grenades to skip up stairs and what not, for playbility's sake. Solace and Landfall are poster children for excessive geometry that you get caught up on at inadvertent times, although it's happened on Monolith a few times as well. You can get hung up on Adrift by jumping under the walkways and banging your head inside the walkway. If you time the jump perfectly, you can actually shield most of your head from a killing blow, though.
I havent been able to play much due to my new job school and life, but the few games I have been able to get in on the new maps I have enjoyed. The two smaller maps I liked a lot and the bigger map played well with extraction when I played on it.
Hopefully I can get some more time to play soon and really get back into the game
So the population hasn't stabilized and we're still cracking 400k players nightly? Phew. Is that ever a relief.
Oh, that was your point. Like I've said before, without another title for a benchmark, you have nothing.
I can give you a benchmark for REACH at the 1.25 year mark. It's still apples and oranges because Waypoint doesn't publish the entire online population. Just MM and SpOps.
I can point to the XBLive lists which still has Halo 4 as number 2 FPS title. Is that good or bad relative to older titles. No way of knowing. Number 2 is still number 2.
So the population hasn't stabilized and we're still cracking 400k players nightly? Phew. Is that ever a relief.
Oh, that was your point. Like I've said before, without another title for a benchmark, you have nothing.
I can give you a benchmark for REACH at the 1.25 year mark. It's still apples and oranges because Waypoint doesn't publish the entire online population. Just MM and SpOps.
I can point to the XBLive lists which still has Halo 4 as number 2 FPS title. Is that good or bad relative to older titles. No way of knowing. Number 2 is still number 2.
Do you like making up excuses for this stuff?
Back to the point of me linking that chart. It seems that the population of Halo 4 has stabilized now, but a pessimist can certainly see that eroding.
We certainly can compare the population to what it was at release, or even what it was at Christmas. You're bent on trying to compare it to something that it can't be compared to because you can't be proven wrong. This isn't Schroedinger's Cat. This is about being happy with the direction that Halo, specifically Halo multiplayer is going. I don't see how you can keep waving the pom pons and moving the goalposts to try and paint this title as a total smash success for multiplayer, when it isn't. Halo 4 being the #1 game on Live is clearly not going to happen, but I would expect it to be a very clear number two, far ahead of number three.
So the population hasn't stabilized and we're still cracking 400k players nightly? Phew. Is that ever a relief.
Oh, that was your point. Like I've said before, without another title for a benchmark, you have nothing.
I can give you a benchmark for REACH at the 1.25 year mark. It's still apples and oranges because Waypoint doesn't publish the entire online population. Just MM and SpOps.
I can point to the XBLive lists which still has Halo 4 as number 2 FPS title. Is that good or bad relative to older titles. No way of knowing. Number 2 is still number 2.
Do you like making up excuses for this stuff?
Back to the point of me linking that chart. It seems that the population of Halo 4 has stabilized now, but a pessimist can certainly see that eroding.
We certainly can compare the population to what it was at release, or even what it was at Christmas. You're bent on trying to compare it to something that it can't be compared to because you can't be proven wrong. This isn't Schroedinger's Cat. This is about being happy with the direction that Halo, specifically Halo multiplayer is going. I don't see how you can keep waving the pom pons and moving the goalposts to try and paint this title as a total smash success for multiplayer, when it isn't. Halo 4 being the #1 game on Live is clearly not going to happen, but I would expect it to be a very clear number two, far ahead of number three.
Shit! I thought you were in for another data fight.
I had the gun ports open, the cannon balls in their brass monkey and was in the middle of rolling out the cannons. Now I have to put all that shit back.
Yeah, the population has been sort of stable for awhile but still eroding too. It kind of speaks to 343i's wisdom to keep the number of playlists in check. They were probably quite aware of all of this a year ago.
]Shit! I thought you were in for another data fight.
I had the gun ports open, the cannon balls in their brass monkey and was in the middle of rolling out the cannons. Now I have to put all that shit back.
Yeah, the population has been sort of stable for awhile but still eroding too. It kind of speaks to 343i's wisdom to keep the number of playlists in check. They were probably quite aware of all of this a year ago.
Go 343i. ;)
I thought 343's playlist removals were often whimsical so far. Removing playlists that were in the middle of the population numbers, while keeping some that have been performing near the bottom since launch. It feels like there are some they just can't get rid of no matter what their population numbers, and other playlists that do better suffer because of it.
Right now, Team Objective has under 500 players. It's been around, but very few play it relative to other playlists. Yet it hasn't been removed, while others have.
So the population hasn't stabilized and we're still cracking 400k players nightly? Phew. Is that ever a relief.
Oh, that was your point. Like I've said before, without another title for a benchmark, you have nothing.
I can give you a benchmark for REACH at the 1.25 year mark. It's still apples and oranges because Waypoint doesn't publish the entire online population. Just MM and SpOps.
I can point to the XBLive lists which still has Halo 4 as number 2 FPS title. Is that good or bad relative to older titles. No way of knowing. Number 2 is still number 2.
Do you like making up excuses for this stuff?
Back to the point of me linking that chart. It seems that the population of Halo 4 has stabilized now, but a pessimist can certainly see that eroding.
We certainly can compare the population to what it was at release, or even what it was at Christmas. You're bent on trying to compare it to something that it can't be compared to because you can't be proven wrong. This isn't Schroedinger's Cat. This is about being happy with the direction that Halo, specifically Halo multiplayer is going. I don't see how you can keep waving the pom pons and moving the goalposts to try and paint this title as a total smash success for multiplayer, when it isn't. Halo 4 being the #1 game on Live is clearly not going to happen, but I would expect it to be a very clear number two, far ahead of number three.
For me, a lot of the most interesting changes will come from Halo 4 to Halo 5. It'll be easiest then to see the direction 343 is taking the entire franchise, or if they are changing things in a different way for the next title.
In other words, if the Halo multiplayer drifts further from say Halo 3 and becomes closer to some of the more recent Call of Duty titles around the time of Halo 5's release, it'll become a pattern.
It'll be interesting to see what 343 does either way. Will they move in a direction with Halo that is away from Halo?
If one of Halo 5's multiplayer features is a MAC Strike that ends the match (or other similar to Tactical Nuke) that'll be my signal to leave the series behind.
For me, a lot of the most interesting changes will come from Halo 4 to Halo 5. It'll be easiest then to see the direction 343 is taking the entire franchise, or if they are changing things in a different way for the next title.
In other words, if the Halo multiplayer drifts further from say Halo 3 and becomes closer to some of the more recent Call of Duty titles around the time of Halo 5's release, it'll become a pattern.
It'll be interesting to see what 343 does either way. Will they move in a direction with Halo that is away from Halo?
If one of Halo 5's multiplayer features is a MAC Strike that ends the match (or other similar to Tactical Nuke) that'll be my signal to leave the series behind.
I think it's safe to say we already see the direction 343 is taking Halo. I believe they pretty much had a blank slate from which to work and build Halo 4. I don't see any future Halo games going "back to the basics" of H2/H3.
Consider this though, I'm not sure all of the blame should be 343's to manage.
Prior to the release of H4, I remember either seeing or reading an interview with Frankie. He was talking basically about the early stages of development where they wondered if they could make Halo. Along the way they did an early demo for what I would assume are Micro$oft execs, he stated that the execs liked what they saw, but thought it needed "more".
In other words, you have to consider that MS was extrememly influential in what they wanted from their flagship exclusive. Gamers be damned with what they liked (and what worked) in the previous titles.
I figure we can only expect Halo to become even more bloated with H5 and H6. I suppose it will be up to us to sort it out.
For me, a lot of the most interesting changes will come from Halo 4 to Halo 5. It'll be easiest then to see the direction 343 is taking the entire franchise, or if they are changing things in a different way for the next title.
In other words, if the Halo multiplayer drifts further from say Halo 3 and becomes closer to some of the more recent Call of Duty titles around the time of Halo 5's release, it'll become a pattern.
It'll be interesting to see what 343 does either way. Will they move in a direction with Halo that is away from Halo?
If one of Halo 5's multiplayer features is a MAC Strike that ends the match (or other similar to Tactical Nuke) that'll be my signal to leave the series behind.
I think it's safe to say we already see the direction 343 is taking Halo. I believe they pretty much had a blank slate from which to work and build Halo 4. I don't see any future Halo games going "back to the basics" of H2/H3.
Consider this though, I'm not sure all of the blame should be 343's to manage.
Prior to the release of H4, I remember either seeing or reading an interview with Frankie. He was talking basically about the early stages of development where they wondered if they could make Halo. Along the way they did an early demo for what I would assume are Micro$oft execs, he stated that the execs liked what they saw, but thought it needed "more".
In other words, you have to consider that MS was extrememly influential in what they wanted from their flagship exclusive. Gamers be damned with what they liked (and what worked) in the previous titles.
I figure we can only expect Halo to become even more bloated with H5 and H6. I suppose it will be up to us to sort it out.
I remember that as well, now that you mention it. Where they showed a "vertical slice" or whatever?
It must be difficult though to bring things that are fresh to an established series to generate new interest, but while not moving further from what has already been established.
Anyways, the Halo 4 to Halo 5 changes will be a very solid confirmation if the direction they are moving continues. Obviously they are in it to make money, and Microsoft wants a huge exclusive money making title. So things that sell very well are extremely appealing from a business standpoint. I mean, wouldn't Microsoft love an exclusive first party Call of Duty? All those sales, but only on Xbox? Yeah, they would.
For me, I could have been max rank in Halo 4 in the month it was released. Now, had that have happened the thing that would keep me playing is fun multiplayer. It isn't ranking up, or fancier shoulderpads, or a visor color, or completing a challenge that most of the experience gets wasted from poor design that keeps me playing. It's fun matches in multiplayer. I think if they want to keep people hooked on their game, they would do well to keep that in mind. However, I can see a form of a "prestige" system in Halo 5 becoming a reality instead.
It really feels like a fire-and-forget approach. They captured a ton of sales inclduing appealing to a wider range of FPS gamers, and then moved on to the next title while outsourcing the work to be done on this one.
Now, look at Bungie. Developing a series with a goal of fun multiplayer in both competitive and cooperative ways that people will want to play for a decade. It's a very different approach.
How important is MM population? For me its important, but for 343 maybe not as much as we think. When they have their weekly meetings are they watching the population like its the stock market. IMO they have moved to Halo5 and how thats going to move the Nextbox.
As far as the game goes I think they have made some great improvements in the playlists, but it just took to long for those changes. Infinity Slayer is skill a cause for concer because it has the biggest population. Does 343 looks at those numbers and thinks people love this stuff or do they understand that Slayer is and always has been the biggest draw.
How important is MM population? For me its important, but for 343 maybe not as much as we think. When they have their weekly meetings are they watching the population like its the stock market. IMO they have moved to Halo5 and how thats going to move the Nextbox.
As far as the game goes I think they have made some great improvements in the playlists, but it just took to long for those changes. Infinity Slayer is skill a cause for concer because it has the biggest population. Does 343 looks at those numbers and thinks people love this stuff or do they understand that Slayer is and always has been the biggest draw.
With Infinity Slayer, I think you nailed it. I agree - Slayer is very popular. However, which would have had more population at launch and over time, a pure Team Slayer, or Infinity Slayer?
I also agree with you that they have moved on to Halo 5.
When I buy a Halo game, it isn't because I want to play a shooter with a huge population. It's because I want to play Halo. Having a massive population in a Halo game at the cost of it becoming a pseudo-COD is not worth it to me to purchase the game. That's just how I feel, others may want a super popular game no matter how much it departs from its past or becomes similar to another title.
CTF mixes the 2 gametypes of IS and normal and it does seem to make a big difference either way. Players main consur seems to be what map they will be playing on.
I'm really hoping that the next CoD game shows signs of weaken. I just don't enjoy it as much as Halo, but if the title keeps selling huge than I can't blame 343 for trying get those numbers.
some highlights for effect...
Winner. Winner. Chicken Dinner.
This is really what it all comes down to Deep. You can make a beautiful map and keep it clutter free. Go nuts with the backdrop/skybox/theme of the map. I really don't care, but please, please, please do not let that theme affect the gameplay that will be had there. Forerunner and Covy themed maps have always been favorites because the sightlines were nice and the textures were simple and smooth. While the Human ones were always angular, cluttered, and well, human.
Past maps always felt more versatile. Maybe it was a combination of things.
I'm still loving monolith!
I'm also enjoying SWAT on skyline more and more.
skyline and landfall are both smaller than i wanted and to cluttered with useless obstacles, but I'd rather have that than another gigantic map polluted with to many vehicles.
a simple fix for these New maps is to eliminate so many power weapons from them.
Oddball on Monolith with a large group was a blast. Skyline was enjoyable. Landfall with a big group and Infinity Slayer was very good. The clutter was my friend but I don't have a good sense of direction on it yet.
With Landfall, I feel the size is actually fine for it. 4v4 and 8 player FFA work on it without much time needed to find action.
However, consider Landfall if it had 8v8 slayer on it. It'd be far too small. It'd be chaos everywhere and a complete inability to breathe without being already shot at upon spawning.
So while it seems big for a 4v4, I don't think it is too big for that gametype. I feel it could be too large for a 2v2 mode though.
As far as power weapons go, there are repeatedly spawning rockets on Monolith and Landfall. Definitely a point of interest. However, it actually hearkens back to the earlier Halo days where weapons were timed. The main difference is the icons pointing to the fact they've spawned.
CTF on Skyline was very fast paced, and enjoyable.
Bwah ha ha! Dixon edited my post by accident. lol
I did what now?
Not I, although excessive geometry is a problem on these maps.
Deep, how many times did you get hung up moving around some of the maps in previous Halo games? It happens a little more these days. At least Creative Affinity did learn to put that invisible barrier over things to enable grenades to skip up stairs and what not, for playbility's sake. Solace and Landfall are poster children for excessive geometry that you get caught up on at inadvertent times, although it's happened on Monolith a few times as well. You can get hung up on Adrift by jumping under the walkways and banging your head inside the walkway. If you time the jump perfectly, you can actually shield most of your head from a killing blow, though.
I havent been able to play much due to my new job school and life, but the few games I have been able to get in on the new maps I have enjoyed. The two smaller maps I liked a lot and the bigger map played well with extraction when I played on it.
Hopefully I can get some more time to play soon and really get back into the game
http://halocharts.com/2012/chart/dailypeakpopulation/all
Check out the playlists. Borked.
It hasn't listed Infinity Slayer for a day or so.
How so? I'm not seeing it.
Edited to add: Did they stop including it around January 7th? The population seems to have stabilized at around that time.
Around the time you posted, something was failing again because of no data getting collected for the playlists.
Infinty Slayer on Waypoint is at 6334 yet I don't see it on Halocharts.
I'm just saying it isn't always up to date or accurate.
Previously it was reasonably accurate but the last few weeks have been iffy. Maybe the owner is losing interest in keeping the scripts up to date.
So the population hasn't stabilized and we're still cracking 400k players nightly? Phew. Is that ever a relief.
I can give you a benchmark for REACH at the 1.25 year mark. It's still apples and oranges because Waypoint doesn't publish the entire online population. Just MM and SpOps.
I can point to the XBLive lists which still has Halo 4 as number 2 FPS title. Is that good or bad relative to older titles. No way of knowing. Number 2 is still number 2.
Do you like making up excuses for this stuff?
Back to the point of me linking that chart. It seems that the population of Halo 4 has stabilized now, but a pessimist can certainly see that eroding.
We certainly can compare the population to what it was at release, or even what it was at Christmas. You're bent on trying to compare it to something that it can't be compared to because you can't be proven wrong. This isn't Schroedinger's Cat. This is about being happy with the direction that Halo, specifically Halo multiplayer is going. I don't see how you can keep waving the pom pons and moving the goalposts to try and paint this title as a total smash success for multiplayer, when it isn't. Halo 4 being the #1 game on Live is clearly not going to happen, but I would expect it to be a very clear number two, far ahead of number three.
I had the gun ports open, the cannon balls in their brass monkey and was in the middle of rolling out the cannons. Now I have to put all that shit back.
Yeah, the population has been sort of stable for awhile but still eroding too. It kind of speaks to 343i's wisdom to keep the number of playlists in check. They were probably quite aware of all of this a year ago.
Go 343i. ;)
I thought 343's playlist removals were often whimsical so far. Removing playlists that were in the middle of the population numbers, while keeping some that have been performing near the bottom since launch. It feels like there are some they just can't get rid of no matter what their population numbers, and other playlists that do better suffer because of it.
Right now, Team Objective has under 500 players. It's been around, but very few play it relative to other playlists. Yet it hasn't been removed, while others have.
So yeah, whimsical 343
For me, a lot of the most interesting changes will come from Halo 4 to Halo 5. It'll be easiest then to see the direction 343 is taking the entire franchise, or if they are changing things in a different way for the next title.
In other words, if the Halo multiplayer drifts further from say Halo 3 and becomes closer to some of the more recent Call of Duty titles around the time of Halo 5's release, it'll become a pattern.
It'll be interesting to see what 343 does either way. Will they move in a direction with Halo that is away from Halo?
If one of Halo 5's multiplayer features is a MAC Strike that ends the match (or other similar to Tactical Nuke) that'll be my signal to leave the series behind.
I think it's safe to say we already see the direction 343 is taking Halo. I believe they pretty much had a blank slate from which to work and build Halo 4. I don't see any future Halo games going "back to the basics" of H2/H3.
Consider this though, I'm not sure all of the blame should be 343's to manage.
Prior to the release of H4, I remember either seeing or reading an interview with Frankie. He was talking basically about the early stages of development where they wondered if they could make Halo. Along the way they did an early demo for what I would assume are Micro$oft execs, he stated that the execs liked what they saw, but thought it needed "more".
In other words, you have to consider that MS was extrememly influential in what they wanted from their flagship exclusive. Gamers be damned with what they liked (and what worked) in the previous titles.
I figure we can only expect Halo to become even more bloated with H5 and H6. I suppose it will be up to us to sort it out.
I remember that as well, now that you mention it. Where they showed a "vertical slice" or whatever?
It must be difficult though to bring things that are fresh to an established series to generate new interest, but while not moving further from what has already been established.
Anyways, the Halo 4 to Halo 5 changes will be a very solid confirmation if the direction they are moving continues. Obviously they are in it to make money, and Microsoft wants a huge exclusive money making title. So things that sell very well are extremely appealing from a business standpoint. I mean, wouldn't Microsoft love an exclusive first party Call of Duty? All those sales, but only on Xbox? Yeah, they would.
For me, I could have been max rank in Halo 4 in the month it was released. Now, had that have happened the thing that would keep me playing is fun multiplayer. It isn't ranking up, or fancier shoulderpads, or a visor color, or completing a challenge that most of the experience gets wasted from poor design that keeps me playing. It's fun matches in multiplayer. I think if they want to keep people hooked on their game, they would do well to keep that in mind. However, I can see a form of a "prestige" system in Halo 5 becoming a reality instead.
It really feels like a fire-and-forget approach. They captured a ton of sales inclduing appealing to a wider range of FPS gamers, and then moved on to the next title while outsourcing the work to be done on this one.
Now, look at Bungie. Developing a series with a goal of fun multiplayer in both competitive and cooperative ways that people will want to play for a decade. It's a very different approach.
Umm. so what's #3? and #1 (black ops 2)? where can I see said list? Is there a current official charts list like billboard is to music?
I just check http://majornelson.com/ The list for Feb 18th is just down a bit on the page.
http://majornelson.com/2013/02/27/live-activity-for-week-of-february-18th/
How important is MM population? For me its important, but for 343 maybe not as much as we think. When they have their weekly meetings are they watching the population like its the stock market. IMO they have moved to Halo5 and how thats going to move the Nextbox.
As far as the game goes I think they have made some great improvements in the playlists, but it just took to long for those changes. Infinity Slayer is skill a cause for concer because it has the biggest population. Does 343 looks at those numbers and thinks people love this stuff or do they understand that Slayer is and always has been the biggest draw.
With Infinity Slayer, I think you nailed it. I agree - Slayer is very popular. However, which would have had more population at launch and over time, a pure Team Slayer, or Infinity Slayer?
I also agree with you that they have moved on to Halo 5.
When I buy a Halo game, it isn't because I want to play a shooter with a huge population. It's because I want to play Halo. Having a massive population in a Halo game at the cost of it becoming a pseudo-COD is not worth it to me to purchase the game. That's just how I feel, others may want a super popular game no matter how much it departs from its past or becomes similar to another title.
thank ya
CTF mixes the 2 gametypes of IS and normal and it does seem to make a big difference either way. Players main consur seems to be what map they will be playing on.
I'm really hoping that the next CoD game shows signs of weaken. I just don't enjoy it as much as Halo, but if the title keeps selling huge than I can't blame 343 for trying get those numbers.