MS planning accountant discretely moved incorrectly placed profit decimal place three places to the left. 24hrs later, all hell breaks loose at MS headquarters. MS, "what the fuck! You said ...."! 12 hours later, discs are in, DRM and family sharing are out. MS, "we listened".
I didn't think I'd be pissed about this. But I actually am.
I was looking forward to being able to share my games without having to keep track of a fucking disc. I was starting to look forward to not having to load up a goddamn thumb drive anytime I wanted to game at a friends house.
I admit I pissed and moaned about it all to begin with. But I did some research, read their goals with the console, and was willing to give it a try. I don't see their goal as evil. Because if it came to that point, I could sell the console and move on to another console company.
So the Xbone is gonna be the same as the 360 now. Same as the PS4. Only differences are exclusives and graphics.
So now....it's all the same. Pay for every goddamn individual xbl account. Doesn't matter if it's all on one box. You gotta pay for all of them. Wouldn't have to be that way.
We as gamers could have actually saved some money and gave some used game sale cash to the developers.
Nope.
Because we didn't want to connect it to the internet.
Your PC is. You probably wouldn't have a goddamn pc if you didnt have internet (this rant is for the internet, not directed at one person).
Yeah I'm not fucking happy.
Like a lot of you on here, we now will have to wait another 10-15 years to see any real progress with the game industry. The offer that Microsoft wasn't a terrible one. And if you didn't like it, you had other console choices you could buy.
I tend to have followed gatu's course, I'm also pissed Microsoft didn't talk about the sharing extensively at e3 or counter the sharing youtube by sony.
We ask gamers retain some rights and freedoms. That will never be a bad thing. The bottom line is Microsoft made some controversial decisions and looked at the only factor that matters- money. They panicked when they realized how badly their changes were hurting themselves. I don't care about not being able to electronically share games; I never had that ability before, so I can't miss it. Publishers will likely prefer this method, since before one in ten gamers needed to (theoretically) buy a title to enjoy it. Microsoft never actually explained how that policy would have worked; for all we knew, they could have limited game usage to one console at a time, as if there were only one copy of the disc available for a group of friends. Since I started playing on the NES, and moving along to next systems, every upgrade has been solely an improvement on the old. I, for one, am very happy to be able to continue actually buying Xbox games, and not merely renting them or buying licenses for them. That factor was going to drive me to Sony, and I know there are hundreds of thousands of other gamers that feel the same as me.
See, if i could buy a copy and have my brother in law play the game with me, or some of my co-workers, through this sharing plan, then it would have been a big win for me.
It is partially about being afraid of change though Azure. We have zero guarantee that Microsofts intentions were either 100% good or 100% evil. Yes obviously Microsoft is gonna do something that benefits them. They are a company that needs to make money to function. But how do they do that? By creating products that offer us value and unique experiences we don't get anywhere else. But I say this. You obviously give some trust to microsoft if you own a machine that runs windows, own an xbox 360, have purchased or consistently use Xbox Live and/or have purchased some form of DLC for your Xbox 360 games. So this whole..."I don't trustem" thing doesn't fly. You spend money with a company, you give them some level of trust. If you really don't trust them...why did you ever buy their products to begin with?
We had zero indication that M$ was just gonna close up shop and fuck everyone over. And besides...that possibility is so unlikely to happen. Sure the MSN Music thing shut down. But MS didn't have a handle on the music market like it does with the gaming market. Same scenario is a lot less likely to happen. And besides. If Valve....little tiny company Valve.....has checks in place to protect it's customers should the unfortunate day come that they close their doors.....can still access their license and own their crap.....why wouldn't Microsoft do that? I mean realistically. And when would this nightmare scenario take place? Sometime in the future that isn't right now.
I understand that people don't like DRM. I don't like DRM. But there was always a clear choice. Don't buy it if you don't like it. For some reason people don't like being told that option. That not buying it...just isn't an option. You had several other options. Ps4, Nintendo WiiU, or hell....play even more strict DRM products on your PC. Or buy nothing and stick with what you have. But we don't like hearing that. We want our cake and eat it to.
I like options. I had them with the way things were before this sudden policy change. Now everything is the same. We all get vanilla. And frankly (while I don't hate vanilla), I like to have some rocky road or peanut butter ice cream occasionally. We buy what suits our needs....or meets our requirments. I don't buy Sony products because honestly...I don't give 2 shits about Sony. I owned a PS2 because they had good games. I got an xbox because it had good games. I haven't purchased a ps3 yet because there are MAYBE a handful of games I want to play, nothing hits me as a console seller. The same case will be with the PS4. I dig what Microsoft has been putting down. It's why I own a 360 and haven't moved to the PS3. I don't buy apple because they don't suit my needs. $2,000 for a all-in-one box that I can't upgrade easily...no thank you. Doesn't suit my needs. So I build my own PC. Don't like = don't buy. I don't go onto Apple's forums and tell them their shit is too expensive...or that their shit doesn't work for me, or bombard twitter because I think Samsung televisions don't display blacks as dark as a like.
I could share my games on the Xbox One. I could trade in my games on the Xbox One. And I had some other cool features in exchange for the online check. I was okay with that. That doesn't bother me and it suits my wants & needs for a gaming platform and could have potentially saved me some money, and put more money into the hands of developers. It doesn't do that for everybody. So obviously....EVERYBODY SHOULDN'T BUY IT. If option A doesn't suit your needs....you still have options B and C. How they handled it wasn't great. But it stands true. You're not holding COD LANs on a submarine. Just ain't happening. People with no internet? Sorry. Sucks....but the world keeps spinning. My internet goes out for longer than 24 hours? Oh shit. It's not like I don't have 100+ other things I could be doing. Play any of my old-ass consoles....work on some art....work on my cruiser....gears armor...whatever. It wouldn't be permanent.
This scenario doesn't happen with any other piece of electronic equipment. If that tv has a feature I don't like, I buy something else. The internet doesn't raise up and lay down terrible retribution because their TV requires internet to use Netflix.
We expect DRM with Steam. So why not from a next gen console? At least with the xbox one we could still trade our shit in and/or share it with people....without having to lend out the actual fucking disc.
This is just my opinion. Because we have no way of knowing now whether or not M$ was the devil in this case or not. But I think the game community at large....fucked up big time. Yeah MS fucked up and didn't get the information out there. But 1 press conference could have fixed this.
Now that they've back tracked, they look even more evil in the eyes that already saw them as evil, and the people who wanted the original Xbox One experience are now getting shafted out of something that was going to be unique and potentially better than Steam. So them changing policy doesn't really fix anything. The people that demonized them will continue to because enough is never enough. The people that wanted new & unique are stuck with the old and "safe". No one really gets unique choices now...except a label and maybe a handful of exclusives.
All that's happened is.....one group of people have successfully removed the choices from another group, and made every option almost exactly the same.
I understand that people don't like DRM. I don't like DRM. But there was always a clear choice. Don't buy it if you don't like it. For some reason people don't like being told that option. That not buying it...just isn't an option. You had several other options. Ps4, Nintendo WiiU, or hell....play even more strict DRM products on your PC. Or buy nothing and stick with what you have.
Gatsu wrote:
All that's happened is.....one group of people have successfully removed the choices from another group, and made every option almost exactly the same.
Those 2 quotes disagree with each other. We didn't like the DRM, so we were stating we didn't like it and didn't intend to purchase the xbone. WE didn't remove those features, m$ did. They saw the pre-order numbers, or lack thereof, the pre-order sales of the ps4, and the thumping they took at E3. I guarantee that this was more of a business decision that an actual listening to the fans. m$ listened to their wallets and before the change, we were making a statement with ours.
I said it before that there is a 99% chance that this DRM, always onlne, mandatory kinect crap is Microsoft's way of changing the Xbox from a console that plays disc games into a media/game SERVICE.
Consumers were the least concern compared to the REVENUE model.
Some committee of lawyers and accountants and PR people had this all planned pre-launch and expected to lose the hard core gamers due to the DRM nastiness, but figured it was a good trade off in picking up the Sports nuts and TV streaming crowd.
seems like the ONLY reason MS reversed itself was the unexpectedly Huge backlash and the MS marketing analysts saw their XBone Projected Sales figures dropping into the toilet.
the corollary is that Publishers of the XBone exclusives also saw their projected game sales tank - tiny Xbone sales = tiny Xbone Game sales. BIg pressure on MS to do something.
The only way to revive XBone sales is to reverse the DRM policy - AT least until sales catch up to projections.
Once they have enough Xbone user base and people invested in say 5-10 core games - there is no reason they cannot flip the switch and enable DRM.
Xbone buyers cannot "opt out" of the DRM because they accepted all the Xbone and XBL Terms of Service including waiving their class action lawsuit rights.
Once gamers have built up a substantial XBone game library, they are going to Complain and Bark but roll over and accept whatever shitty conditions MS dictates, rather than lose their investment.
Now there is no reason Sony cannot do the same and roll in DRM to the PS4 later down the road.
However given MS track record of PLANNING to screw over consumers, including deployed service people with no or shit internet, and trying PR spin to sell it....
Why is drm screwing the customer? If things stayed as they was and people got educated it would have saved a lot of people money in the long run. People like me who now had to but multiple Gold accounts and now I and my bros have to buy a game each even though we may not play it much. Damn bitches please
MS will now find a longer term way to achieve the lofty goals which just failed. They will succeed because it has been consumer data that was the driving force for planning the future. XB1 policies were a reflection of that. People who see the XB1 plan as one dimensional with no alternate plans need to get their head out of their arse. MS knew all along this populist reaction could occur and were 100% prepared for it. You will begin to see the changes as perks for those who choose digital downloads. Little gifts of thanks from MS. Those who covet the almighty disc will gradually starve in an arid landscape without the little gifts that make digital downloads and licensing such a blessing.
MS will now find a longer term way to achieve the lofty goals which just failed. They will succeed because it has been consumer data that was the driving force for planning the future. XB1 policies were a reflection of that. People who see the XB1 plan as one dimensional with no alternate plans need to get their head out of their arse. MS knew all along this populist reaction could occur and were 100% prepared for it. You will begin to see the changes as perks for those who choose digital downloads. Little gifts of thanks from MS. Those who covet the almighty disc will gradually starve in an arid landscape without the little gifts that make digital downloads and licensing such a blessing.
Damn, I guess I will have to go all digital to get that super duper Timmy pooper blue gun instead of the lame normal gun! Lol
There's no Steam-DRM. The only time you need Steam is for the download and initial set-up of the game you just bought. After that, you can exit Steam and just start the game from the icon on your desktop.
There's no installation-limit (securom). You can delete and redownload your games as many times as you want. Even if that's the only thing that gives you enjoyment and delete and reinstall all your games ten times a day. When it comes to Steam, zero fucks are given.
The only DRM you might encounter is publisher-DRM. (Which Sony so proudly left in the courts of the developers)
Steam doesn't even care if you collect your EA-gamekeys and move your EA-library to Origin.
The only reason why on my PC Steam is active 24/7 is because I'm a lazy motherfucker and I don't care. But there's actually no reason for me to have Steam running all the time, and it is most certainly not needed to play my games (unless I want Steam achievements, which I actually don't care about.).
Here's what I don't get: why is it all or nothing? Why couldn't it be a matter of turning off the 24 hour check in for people not needing it, the digital share thing for those who want it and disc only for those who don't, ability to play offline no matter which camp you're in IF you do have a disc ...? Is it impossible technically? I'm dumbing this way down but in my living room I have a DVR and can rewind/pause/ record. In the master bedroom I have a cable box and get all the channels. In the guest room no box, just cable from the wall plugged in with only 60 something channels. It's all from Comcast... Right now some people have silver and some have gold accounts, and the magic xbl understands who can do what.
*please note I have not had caffeine yet and this may be a stupid question*
Here's what I don't get: why is it all or nothing? Why couldn't it be a matter of turning off the 24 hour check in for people not needing it, the digital share thing for those who want it and disc only for those who don't, ability to play offline no matter which camp you're in IF you do have a disc ...? Is it impossible technically? I'm dumbing this way down but in my living room I have a DVR and can rewind/pause/ record. In the master bedroom I have a cable box and get all the channels. In the guest room no box, just cable from the wall plugged in with only 60 something channels. It's all from Comcast... Right now some people have silver and some have gold accounts, and the magic xbl understands who can do what.
*please note I have not had caffeine yet and this may be a stupid question*
There is no reason that they couldn't make this opt in/opt out, with opting in requiring an occasional check and enabling sharing and the like, and opting out require a disc to run the game and disabling sharing. I'm starting to wonder if they found some issues with the sharing plan/online checks and decide to shelve it - with the extra benefit of having some good press. It would sure explain why no two people at MS seemed to have the same answer for the DRM questions.
I'm still willing to bet if they offered the sharing features with digital download copies only, and used the authenticate one method like Steam has for DRM, that they'd have the majority of gamers going download only.
If they really want to stick it to Gamestop, then keep discs at $60, make new release downloads of the same games $50, and offer predownloading where the system can activate the game at midnight on release day. Gamestop is done within 5 years, max.
yaok with the conspiracy theories. I normally stop reading those the second I realize what they are. There's no proof anywhere, it's all speculation on your part.
Cryptic - you could download and reinstall Xbox One games as many times as you want too. Same with 360. I've installed all my XBLA games on both my machines. Not a fuck was given.
Wouldn't it be funny if MS never intended to use the check in or drm stuff? What if it was just a PR stunt? Get everyone talking about the xboxone, even if its negative, and then announce you're changing things to make the consumer happy. How many ps4 posts are there? I see pages and pages about the xbone, even people who dont play video games know about it now.
8/10 of the people complaining on the internet about not wanting to be connected to the internet would have bought an Xbox One sooner or later anyway. Nobody puts up that much of a rage campaign over something they didn't want to begin with. Especially when the item isn't a necessity. And in typical Internet fashion, half the people complaining probably hadn't even thought the situation through...they just go along with the hive. Not really calling out anyone here...I don't generally think of this site as representative of the overall gaming pop.
The Marketing/PR team that wrote the blog Mattrick signed probably cried themselves to sleep for describing their new "next gen", "future-proof", "modern" console as "working exactly the same as today".
Some white hair on a board or something got spooked and forced the decision based on pre-order numbers.
I don't think MS had bad intentions with what they were doing - they simply fucked up by describing the means (online-check, used game limits) instead of the ends (sharing, cloud offloading, rapid-switching, etc.) that these changes would create.
I bet the sharing and digital perks will come back...slowly and optionally. Obviously the software and hardware can do it.
8/10 of the people complaining on the internet about not wanting to be connected to the internet would have bought an Xbox One sooner or later anyway. Nobody puts up that much of a rage campaign over something they didn't want to begin with. Especially when the item isn't a necessity. And in typical Internet fashion, half the people complaining probably hadn't even thought the situation through...they just go along with the hive. Not really calling out anyone here...I don't generally think of this site as representative of the overall gaming pop.
The Marketing/PR team that wrote the blog Mattrick signed probably cried themselves to sleep for describing their new "next gen", "future-proof", "modern" console as "working exactly the same as today".
Some white hair on a board or something got spooked and forced the decision based on pre-order numbers.
I don't think MS had bad intentions with what they were doing - they simply fucked up by describing the means (online-check, used game limits) instead of the ends (sharing, cloud offloading, rapid-switching, etc.) that these changes would create.
I bet the sharing and digital perks will come back...slowly and optionally. Obviously the software and hardware can do it.
8/10 of the people complaining on the internet about not wanting to be connected to the internet would have bought an Xbox One sooner or later anyway. Nobody puts up that much of a rage campaign over something they didn't want to begin with. Especially when the item isn't a necessity. And in typical Internet fashion, half the people complaining probably hadn't even thought the situation through...they just go along with the hive. Not really calling out anyone here...I don't generally think of this site as representative of the overall gaming pop.
The Marketing/PR team that wrote the blog Mattrick signed probably cried themselves to sleep for describing their new "next gen", "future-proof", "modern" console as "working exactly the same as today".
Some white hair on a board or something got spooked and forced the decision based on pre-order numbers.
I don't think MS had bad intentions with what they were doing - they simply fucked up by describing the means (online-check, used game limits) instead of the ends (sharing, cloud offloading, rapid-switching, etc.) that these changes would create.
I bet the sharing and digital perks will come back...slowly and optionally. Obviously the software and hardware can do it.
Every bit of this was brought on to themselves. You had Mattrick, Major Nelson, Spencer, and various XBox Support on twitter giving conflicting messages on what they planned to do and the possible benefits. If they had a concise, consistent message on what the benefits were for the customer, the backlash would have been a tenth of what they got. Even one of the supposed "benefits" - the sharing program - was never really confirmed. It was based on a post on NeoGAF. By the time we were supposedly going to hear from Major Nelson on it, MS backtracked on everything.
What MS wanted to do was have everyone buy into their DRM program with the message of "trust me, this all may work out well for the consumer".
Yeah, blind faith in corporations works so well, doesn't it?
I have no doubt that sharing and the digital perks will come back - sooner rather than later. And if they can clearly show how it will benefit the customer, it will be very successful. But if they come out with the same Three Stooges approach to marketing it, it will be met with backlash again.
I don't think MS had bad intentions with what they were doing - they simply fucked up by describing the means (online-check, used game limits) instead of the ends (sharing, cloud offloading, rapid-switching, etc.) that these changes would create.
I bet the sharing and digital perks will come back...slowly and optionally. Obviously the software and hardware can do it.
THIS. I was bitching myself before I found out about the sharing thing, because I often borrow before I buy, and it appeared that would be difficult if not impossible. Found out about the sharing thing and got really excited....but just heard about it this week? I think they should have lead with "new ways to share".
And you kinda answered my question...so it might NOT have to be all or nothing.
8/10 of the people complaining on the internet about not wanting to be connected to the internet would have bought an Xbox One sooner or later anyway. Nobody puts up that much of a rage campaign over something they didn't want to begin with. Especially when the item isn't a necessity. And in typical Internet fashion, half the people complaining probably hadn't even thought the situation through...they just go along with the hive. Not really calling out anyone here...I don't generally think of this site as representative of the overall gaming pop.
The Marketing/PR team that wrote the blog Mattrick signed probably cried themselves to sleep for describing their new "next gen", "future-proof", "modern" console as "working exactly the same as today".
Some white hair on a board or something got spooked and forced the decision based on pre-order numbers.
I don't think MS had bad intentions with what they were doing - they simply fucked up by describing the means (online-check, used game limits) instead of the ends (sharing, cloud offloading, rapid-switching, etc.) that these changes would create.
I bet the sharing and digital perks will come back...slowly and optionally. Obviously the software and hardware can do it.
TDrag, you and me - we "get" each other.
So, on another note - I missed it, but did all the changes include taking away "if one tag on a box has Gold, they all do"?
I am happy the restrictions are removed, but I also realize it's a bad thing too.
Consider the idea Microsoft was trying to ease console owners into the idea of a Steam-like service. Digital downloads, scrap discs and cheaper games. I am just surprised MS caved-in so quickly. Who cares about pre-orders? If their way is the way of the future, they should have stuck to their guns and sucked it up.
Another point, how much of a lead would the PS4 have in pre-orders had the consoles been the same price? I'm thinking a lot of Sony's lead is due to it's $100 cheaper price tag
If consoles could go the way of the PC with digital-only downloads from places like Steam, Amazon, Origins, etc, then we could actually see the real promise of cheaper games. I really couldn't care less about trading-in or sharing games. I would MUCH rather have cheaper games.
Microsoft's announcement yesterday basically means we'll probably be stuck in the dark ages of game buying and trading. So I guess I'll still be trolling eBay and Craigslist for used games from individuals.
Now, I'm sure they were seeing a fair amount of pressure from brick-and-mortar stores like Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Gamestop and the like, so I don't see this as just a response to gamers.
Well, it should be interesting to see where all of this goes.
This just goes to show how easily people flip-flop.
The problem they'd have though is....there is no standard then. People who opted in couldn't share with their friends that opted out....etc. No standard.
What I do think they could have done is (like you mentioned Johnny), and a happy medium for everyone, no online checks if the disc is in the tray. But if you are connected and subject to an online check, no disc needed and all of the sharing features will still work. Once you log off...obviously then it requires discs to work. And if you're not logged in, then your friends can't access your shared library or content.
That would have been swell. But ah well. Maybe next time.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see Don Mattrick step down after all this. Not that it will happen. But I wouldn't be surprised.
Also apologies for my war & peace rant earlier. I was tired, and full of nerd rage. I don't mean nothing by it.
as the EA SimCity 5 DRM showed and MS about-face just showed,
the DRM idiocy is all policy driven - the hardware/software can support either direction and probably a mix of disc and digital.
this means companies can turn DRM back on at any time.
it also means it was a deliberate POLICY choice to include it in the first place.
potential buyers of EITHER XBone or PS4 should read the Terms of Service and realize that BOTH MIcrosoft and Sony can enable DRM on their consoles whenever they feel like it.
but of course, true fanboys don't bother reading these kind of things - TOS and EULA agreements are just conspiracies in fine print.
As others have said, I hope they implement some of the stuff they were trying for in the future. The announcement makes a point of saying disc based games. Does this imply anything? I, for one, hope so.
I blame nobody but myself and the other gamers who were actually interested in Microsoft's original idea for the Xbox One. Like the saying goes, the empty can rattles the most and we let the empty cans such as AzureDreams and CrypticCat rattle as loudly as they wanted while we sat and did nothing.
I never wanted a ps4 because it was just the status quo. I was only planning on getting one because the person I game with the most was being a jackass about the DRM. But I expect it from him because he is a stubborn redneck. (One of the qualities I like best about him.) Sony is just doing what they know works and not rattling the cage because they know they don't have shit for exclusive games and their financial status is in question. Their online network is complete and utter trash, and apparently having a firewall on the PSN was a foreign concept to them until they let everyone's personal information out to hackers. And to top it all off, I would get to experience this shitty product while using a controller made for a 10 year old hermaphrodite midget.
I was excited about the family sharing plan and not having to switch discs while playing games. All while using a dependable, secure online service that I am ALWAYS connected to anyway when I am playing. Now I get the same old same old thanks to empty cans like Azure and Cat, who felt the need to pipe up even though he supports a gaming platform that is 10 times as restrictive as MS was going to be. I don't want ot sit in front of a computer when I get home. I sit in front of one all day long. I don't want to hook up the computer to the TV because that keeps my wife from watching the TV shows she likes. And controlling a game with a mouse and keyboard, while technically is more accurate control system than a controller, is just not comfortable for extended periods of time. I have tried using a controller on the computer and it's just a pain in the ass to get set up and working correctly. I just want to sit down, turn on the system and go. No mess, no fuss.
So fuck me for not speaking up, fuck you idiots who were fear mongering because your little pathetic minds are afraid of change. I hope they have an opt in program for having the system it was originally proposed.
Now if you'll excuse me, I am going to go listen to some Testament, eat some bacon, drink some alcohol, and covet my neighbor's wife because I don't believe in some magical ghost in the sky that will make me burn forever because I didn't start wars in his name.
MS planning accountant discretely moved incorrectly placed profit decimal place three places to the left. 24hrs later, all hell breaks loose at MS headquarters. MS, "what the fuck! You said ...."! 12 hours later, discs are in, DRM and family sharing are out. MS, "we listened".
I didn't think I'd be pissed about this. But I actually am.
I was looking forward to being able to share my games without having to keep track of a fucking disc. I was starting to look forward to not having to load up a goddamn thumb drive anytime I wanted to game at a friends house.
I admit I pissed and moaned about it all to begin with. But I did some research, read their goals with the console, and was willing to give it a try. I don't see their goal as evil. Because if it came to that point, I could sell the console and move on to another console company.
So the Xbone is gonna be the same as the 360 now. Same as the PS4. Only differences are exclusives and graphics.
So now....it's all the same. Pay for every goddamn individual xbl account. Doesn't matter if it's all on one box. You gotta pay for all of them. Wouldn't have to be that way.
We as gamers could have actually saved some money and gave some used game sale cash to the developers.
Nope.
Because we didn't want to connect it to the internet.
Your PC is. You probably wouldn't have a goddamn pc if you didnt have internet (this rant is for the internet, not directed at one person).
Yeah I'm not fucking happy.
Like a lot of you on here, we now will have to wait another 10-15 years to see any real progress with the game industry. The offer that Microsoft wasn't a terrible one. And if you didn't like it, you had other console choices you could buy.
Ugh. Sometimes I just hate you internet.
I tend to have followed gatu's course, I'm also pissed Microsoft didn't talk about the sharing extensively at e3 or counter the sharing youtube by sony.
Perhaps if they had heavily marketed the sharing aspect of the family bit, and not had a 24 hour check it would have ended up differently.
See, if i could buy a copy and have my brother in law play the game with me, or some of my co-workers, through this sharing plan, then it would have been a big win for me.
It is partially about being afraid of change though Azure. We have zero guarantee that Microsofts intentions were either 100% good or 100% evil. Yes obviously Microsoft is gonna do something that benefits them. They are a company that needs to make money to function. But how do they do that? By creating products that offer us value and unique experiences we don't get anywhere else. But I say this. You obviously give some trust to microsoft if you own a machine that runs windows, own an xbox 360, have purchased or consistently use Xbox Live and/or have purchased some form of DLC for your Xbox 360 games. So this whole..."I don't trustem" thing doesn't fly. You spend money with a company, you give them some level of trust. If you really don't trust them...why did you ever buy their products to begin with?
We had zero indication that M$ was just gonna close up shop and fuck everyone over. And besides...that possibility is so unlikely to happen. Sure the MSN Music thing shut down. But MS didn't have a handle on the music market like it does with the gaming market. Same scenario is a lot less likely to happen. And besides. If Valve....little tiny company Valve.....has checks in place to protect it's customers should the unfortunate day come that they close their doors.....can still access their license and own their crap.....why wouldn't Microsoft do that? I mean realistically. And when would this nightmare scenario take place? Sometime in the future that isn't right now.
I understand that people don't like DRM. I don't like DRM. But there was always a clear choice. Don't buy it if you don't like it. For some reason people don't like being told that option. That not buying it...just isn't an option. You had several other options. Ps4, Nintendo WiiU, or hell....play even more strict DRM products on your PC. Or buy nothing and stick with what you have. But we don't like hearing that. We want our cake and eat it to.
I like options. I had them with the way things were before this sudden policy change. Now everything is the same. We all get vanilla. And frankly (while I don't hate vanilla), I like to have some rocky road or peanut butter ice cream occasionally. We buy what suits our needs....or meets our requirments. I don't buy Sony products because honestly...I don't give 2 shits about Sony. I owned a PS2 because they had good games. I got an xbox because it had good games. I haven't purchased a ps3 yet because there are MAYBE a handful of games I want to play, nothing hits me as a console seller. The same case will be with the PS4. I dig what Microsoft has been putting down. It's why I own a 360 and haven't moved to the PS3. I don't buy apple because they don't suit my needs. $2,000 for a all-in-one box that I can't upgrade easily...no thank you. Doesn't suit my needs. So I build my own PC. Don't like = don't buy. I don't go onto Apple's forums and tell them their shit is too expensive...or that their shit doesn't work for me, or bombard twitter because I think Samsung televisions don't display blacks as dark as a like.
I could share my games on the Xbox One. I could trade in my games on the Xbox One. And I had some other cool features in exchange for the online check. I was okay with that. That doesn't bother me and it suits my wants & needs for a gaming platform and could have potentially saved me some money, and put more money into the hands of developers. It doesn't do that for everybody. So obviously....EVERYBODY SHOULDN'T BUY IT. If option A doesn't suit your needs....you still have options B and C. How they handled it wasn't great. But it stands true. You're not holding COD LANs on a submarine. Just ain't happening. People with no internet? Sorry. Sucks....but the world keeps spinning. My internet goes out for longer than 24 hours? Oh shit. It's not like I don't have 100+ other things I could be doing. Play any of my old-ass consoles....work on some art....work on my cruiser....gears armor...whatever. It wouldn't be permanent.
This scenario doesn't happen with any other piece of electronic equipment. If that tv has a feature I don't like, I buy something else. The internet doesn't raise up and lay down terrible retribution because their TV requires internet to use Netflix.
We expect DRM with Steam. So why not from a next gen console? At least with the xbox one we could still trade our shit in and/or share it with people....without having to lend out the actual fucking disc.
This is just my opinion. Because we have no way of knowing now whether or not M$ was the devil in this case or not. But I think the game community at large....fucked up big time. Yeah MS fucked up and didn't get the information out there. But 1 press conference could have fixed this.
Now that they've back tracked, they look even more evil in the eyes that already saw them as evil, and the people who wanted the original Xbox One experience are now getting shafted out of something that was going to be unique and potentially better than Steam. So them changing policy doesn't really fix anything. The people that demonized them will continue to because enough is never enough. The people that wanted new & unique are stuck with the old and "safe". No one really gets unique choices now...except a label and maybe a handful of exclusives.
All that's happened is.....one group of people have successfully removed the choices from another group, and made every option almost exactly the same.
Those 2 quotes disagree with each other. We didn't like the DRM, so we were stating we didn't like it and didn't intend to purchase the xbone. WE didn't remove those features, m$ did. They saw the pre-order numbers, or lack thereof, the pre-order sales of the ps4, and the thumping they took at E3. I guarantee that this was more of a business decision that an actual listening to the fans. m$ listened to their wallets and before the change, we were making a statement with ours.
STFU was what the fan boys said when anyone complained. This goes to show that the consumer voice is an important thing.
you're probably right.
well put Gatsu. Very well said. This is the way I feel as well.
I said it before that there is a 99% chance that this DRM, always onlne, mandatory kinect crap is Microsoft's way of changing the Xbox from a console that plays disc games into a media/game SERVICE.
Consumers were the least concern compared to the REVENUE model.
Some committee of lawyers and accountants and PR people had this all planned pre-launch and expected to lose the hard core gamers due to the DRM nastiness, but figured it was a good trade off in picking up the Sports nuts and TV streaming crowd.
seems like the ONLY reason MS reversed itself was the unexpectedly Huge backlash and the MS marketing analysts saw their XBone Projected Sales figures dropping into the toilet.
the corollary is that Publishers of the XBone exclusives also saw their projected game sales tank - tiny Xbone sales = tiny Xbone Game sales. BIg pressure on MS to do something.
The only way to revive XBone sales is to reverse the DRM policy - AT least until sales catch up to projections.
Once they have enough Xbone user base and people invested in say 5-10 core games - there is no reason they cannot flip the switch and enable DRM.
Xbone buyers cannot "opt out" of the DRM because they accepted all the Xbone and XBL Terms of Service including waiving their class action lawsuit rights.
Once gamers have built up a substantial XBone game library, they are going to Complain and Bark but roll over and accept whatever shitty conditions MS dictates, rather than lose their investment.
Now there is no reason Sony cannot do the same and roll in DRM to the PS4 later down the road.
However given MS track record of PLANNING to screw over consumers, including deployed service people with no or shit internet, and trying PR spin to sell it....
MS will now find a longer term way to achieve the lofty goals which just failed. They will succeed because it has been consumer data that was the driving force for planning the future. XB1 policies were a reflection of that. People who see the XB1 plan as one dimensional with no alternate plans need to get their head out of their arse. MS knew all along this populist reaction could occur and were 100% prepared for it. You will begin to see the changes as perks for those who choose digital downloads. Little gifts of thanks from MS. Those who covet the almighty disc will gradually starve in an arid landscape without the little gifts that make digital downloads and licensing such a blessing.
@Gatsu,
There's no Steam-DRM. The only time you need Steam is for the download and initial set-up of the game you just bought. After that, you can exit Steam and just start the game from the icon on your desktop.
There's no installation-limit (securom). You can delete and redownload your games as many times as you want. Even if that's the only thing that gives you enjoyment and delete and reinstall all your games ten times a day. When it comes to Steam, zero fucks are given.
The only DRM you might encounter is publisher-DRM. (Which Sony so proudly left in the courts of the developers)
Steam doesn't even care if you collect your EA-gamekeys and move your EA-library to Origin.
The only reason why on my PC Steam is active 24/7 is because I'm a lazy motherfucker and I don't care. But there's actually no reason for me to have Steam running all the time, and it is most certainly not needed to play my games (unless I want Steam achievements, which I actually don't care about.).
Here's what I don't get: why is it all or nothing? Why couldn't it be a matter of turning off the 24 hour check in for people not needing it, the digital share thing for those who want it and disc only for those who don't, ability to play offline no matter which camp you're in IF you do have a disc ...? Is it impossible technically? I'm dumbing this way down but in my living room I have a DVR and can rewind/pause/ record. In the master bedroom I have a cable box and get all the channels. In the guest room no box, just cable from the wall plugged in with only 60 something channels. It's all from Comcast... Right now some people have silver and some have gold accounts, and the magic xbl understands who can do what.
*please note I have not had caffeine yet and this may be a stupid question*
There is no reason that they couldn't make this opt in/opt out, with opting in requiring an occasional check and enabling sharing and the like, and opting out require a disc to run the game and disabling sharing. I'm starting to wonder if they found some issues with the sharing plan/online checks and decide to shelve it - with the extra benefit of having some good press. It would sure explain why no two people at MS seemed to have the same answer for the DRM questions.
I'm still willing to bet if they offered the sharing features with digital download copies only, and used the authenticate one method like Steam has for DRM, that they'd have the majority of gamers going download only.
If they really want to stick it to Gamestop, then keep discs at $60, make new release downloads of the same games $50, and offer predownloading where the system can activate the game at midnight on release day. Gamestop is done within 5 years, max.
yaok with the conspiracy theories. I normally stop reading those the second I realize what they are. There's no proof anywhere, it's all speculation on your part.
Cryptic - you could download and reinstall Xbox One games as many times as you want too. Same with 360. I've installed all my XBLA games on both my machines. Not a fuck was given.
Based on unscientific analysis...
8/10 of the people complaining on the internet about not wanting to be connected to the internet would have bought an Xbox One sooner or later anyway. Nobody puts up that much of a rage campaign over something they didn't want to begin with. Especially when the item isn't a necessity. And in typical Internet fashion, half the people complaining probably hadn't even thought the situation through...they just go along with the hive. Not really calling out anyone here...I don't generally think of this site as representative of the overall gaming pop.
The Marketing/PR team that wrote the blog Mattrick signed probably cried themselves to sleep for describing their new "next gen", "future-proof", "modern" console as "working exactly the same as today".
Some white hair on a board or something got spooked and forced the decision based on pre-order numbers.
I don't think MS had bad intentions with what they were doing - they simply fucked up by describing the means (online-check, used game limits) instead of the ends (sharing, cloud offloading, rapid-switching, etc.) that these changes would create.
I bet the sharing and digital perks will come back...slowly and optionally. Obviously the software and hardware can do it.
http://www.dorkly.com/article/52521/don-mattricks-first-draft-of-the-xbox-one-update-announcement
Every bit of this was brought on to themselves. You had Mattrick, Major Nelson, Spencer, and various XBox Support on twitter giving conflicting messages on what they planned to do and the possible benefits. If they had a concise, consistent message on what the benefits were for the customer, the backlash would have been a tenth of what they got. Even one of the supposed "benefits" - the sharing program - was never really confirmed. It was based on a post on NeoGAF. By the time we were supposedly going to hear from Major Nelson on it, MS backtracked on everything.
What MS wanted to do was have everyone buy into their DRM program with the message of "trust me, this all may work out well for the consumer".
Yeah, blind faith in corporations works so well, doesn't it?
I have no doubt that sharing and the digital perks will come back - sooner rather than later. And if they can clearly show how it will benefit the customer, it will be very successful. But if they come out with the same Three Stooges approach to marketing it, it will be met with backlash again.
And you kinda answered my question...so it might NOT have to be all or nothing.
TDrag, you and me - we "get" each other..gif "27")
So, on another note - I missed it, but did all the changes include taking away "if one tag on a box has Gold, they all do"?
The problem they'd have though is....there is no standard then. People who opted in couldn't share with their friends that opted out....etc. No standard.
What I do think they could have done is (like you mentioned Johnny), and a happy medium for everyone, no online checks if the disc is in the tray. But if you are connected and subject to an online check, no disc needed and all of the sharing features will still work. Once you log off...obviously then it requires discs to work. And if you're not logged in, then your friends can't access your shared library or content.
That would have been swell. But ah well. Maybe next time.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see Don Mattrick step down after all this. Not that it will happen. But I wouldn't be surprised.
Also apologies for my war & peace rant earlier. I was tired, and full of nerd rage. I don't mean nothing by it.
as the EA SimCity 5 DRM showed and MS about-face just showed,
the DRM idiocy is all policy driven - the hardware/software can support either direction and probably a mix of disc and digital.
this means companies can turn DRM back on at any time.
it also means it was a deliberate POLICY choice to include it in the first place.
potential buyers of EITHER XBone or PS4 should read the Terms of Service and realize that BOTH MIcrosoft and Sony can enable DRM on their consoles whenever they feel like it.
but of course, true fanboys don't bother reading these kind of things - TOS and EULA agreements are just conspiracies in fine print.
As others have said, I hope they implement some of the stuff they were trying for in the future. The announcement makes a point of saying disc based games. Does this imply anything? I, for one, hope so.
I blame nobody but myself and the other gamers who were actually interested in Microsoft's original idea for the Xbox One. Like the saying goes, the empty can rattles the most and we let the empty cans such as AzureDreams and CrypticCat rattle as loudly as they wanted while we sat and did nothing.
I never wanted a ps4 because it was just the status quo. I was only planning on getting one because the person I game with the most was being a jackass about the DRM. But I expect it from him because he is a stubborn redneck. (One of the qualities I like best about him.) Sony is just doing what they know works and not rattling the cage because they know they don't have shit for exclusive games and their financial status is in question. Their online network is complete and utter trash, and apparently having a firewall on the PSN was a foreign concept to them until they let everyone's personal information out to hackers. And to top it all off, I would get to experience this shitty product while using a controller made for a 10 year old hermaphrodite midget.
I was excited about the family sharing plan and not having to switch discs while playing games. All while using a dependable, secure online service that I am ALWAYS connected to anyway when I am playing. Now I get the same old same old thanks to empty cans like Azure and Cat, who felt the need to pipe up even though he supports a gaming platform that is 10 times as restrictive as MS was going to be. I don't want ot sit in front of a computer when I get home. I sit in front of one all day long. I don't want to hook up the computer to the TV because that keeps my wife from watching the TV shows she likes. And controlling a game with a mouse and keyboard, while technically is more accurate control system than a controller, is just not comfortable for extended periods of time. I have tried using a controller on the computer and it's just a pain in the ass to get set up and working correctly. I just want to sit down, turn on the system and go. No mess, no fuss.
So fuck me for not speaking up, fuck you idiots who were fear mongering because your little pathetic minds are afraid of change. I hope they have an opt in program for having the system it was originally proposed.
Now if you'll excuse me, I am going to go listen to some Testament, eat some bacon, drink some alcohol, and covet my neighbor's wife because I don't believe in some magical ghost in the sky that will make me burn forever because I didn't start wars in his name.