I can see MS also come out before the launch saying they are going to offer and XB 1 without the Kinect for a 399 price point. I really do not know what would be stopping them at this point.
Yesterday I would've said "no way" but now I don't know.
I still think they want it in every box, so devs will actually be able to use it knowing everyone has one.
I can see MS also come out before the launch saying they are going to offer and XB 1 without the Kinect for a 399 price point. I really do not know what would be stopping them at this point.
Yesterday I would've said "no way" but now I don't know.
I still think they want it in every box, so devs will actually be able to use it knowing everyone has one.
I can see MS also come out before the launch saying they are going to offer and XB 1 without the Kinect for a 399 price point. I really do not know what would be stopping them at this point.
They certainly could, but it's unlikely. They want to give the devs as many options to develop their games with as many options as possible. Since the Kinect was developed a couple years ago, not everyone has it. If it comes with it then it opens doors instead of shutting them.
If true, games were timed demos not full sharing. If true, I don't give a crap that it was removed.
You're still losing digital access to all of your disc games everywhere though. And disc check in the drive.
Like you said, if that's what it was truly was gonna be....that's certainly not what they made it sound like. So if it is true, glad they changed policies.
So...how bout that Titanfall? Glorious right? I mean holy shit.
I'm real tempted to preorder a xbone.....despite my own thoughts about not being an early adopter. But damn it's hard to resist.
If true, games were timed demos not full sharing. If true, I don't give a crap that it was removed.
You're still losing digital access to all of your disc games everywhere though. And disc check in the drive.
Like you said, if that's what it was truly was gonna be....that's certainly not what they made it sound like. So if it is true, glad they changed policies.
So...how bout that Titanfall? Glorious right? I mean holy shit.
I'm real tempted to preorder a xbone.....despite my own thoughts about not being an early adopter. But damn it's hard to resist.
Titanfall looks nice, but I'm sure it's a balance nightmare. I dunno. I'm very dubious about it.
people may disagree but I think MS's reversal was a win for consumers.
a company may have neato technology and promising new features - but if you bundle it with a bad DRM stick and your PR cannot explain the carrot benefits - the results are just what played out.
Competition and choice usually favors the consumer.
Monopolies and limited choice usually favors the sellers.
I think this fiasco may have hurt Microsoft short term, but if the the Xbox chiefs learned their lesson, it may actually help long term.
Next time, use more carrot and less stick.
I'm sure there is a more consumer friendly path to digital delivery and service transition that BOTH Ms and Sony can profit from that won't cause massive backlash.
as others have said, offer discounts, freebies, dlc, extra service to get gamers to switch to digital - don't just use the big online DRM stick to whack us.
people may disagree but I think MS's reversal was a win for consumers.
a company may have neato technology and promising new features - but if you bundle it with a bad DRM stick and your PR cannot explain the carrot benefits - the results are just what played out.
Competition and choice usually favors the consumer.
Monopolies and limited choice usually favors the sellers.
I think this fiasco may have hurt Microsoft short term, but if the the Xbox chiefs learned their lesson, it may actually help long term.
Next time, use more carrot and less stick.
I'm sure there is a more consumer friendly path to digital delivery and service transition that BOTH Ms and Sony can profit from that won't cause massive backlash.
as others have said, offer discounts, freebies, dlc, extra service to get gamers to switch to digital - don't just use the big online DRM stick to whack us.
An internet connection will not be required to play offline Xbox One games – After a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One, you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again. There is no 24 hour connection requirement and you can take your Xbox One anywhere you want and play your games, just like on Xbox 360.
Trade-in, lend, resell, gift, and rent disc based games just like you do today – There will be no limitations to using and sharing games, it will work just as it does today on Xbox 360.
The sad part is how sharing now has to suffer disk based checks require. The online sharing was such a great advancement in terms of how content is shared. I guess consumers just werent ready for it. I would have much rather gone with their new model. Oh well.
Downloaded titles cannot be shared or resold. Also, similar to today, playing disc based games will require that the disc be in the tray.
ill do some digging to try and find the link, but apparently the family sharing feature wasnt anything more than an extended demo prompting the person to buy the game every 30min.
[ill do some digging to try and find the link, but apparently the family sharing feature wasnt anything more than an extended demo prompting the person to buy the game every 30min.
page 2 of this thread MTPathy :) and pretty much every other XB1 thread.
Banks and other companies looking for a case study in how firms can quickly alienate customers and shred their public image should take a long, hard look at Microsoft (MSFT).
Banks and other companies looking for a case study in how firms can quickly alienate customers and shred their public image should take a long, hard look at Microsoft (MSFT).
Awesome article, then it links to a bullshit chart on imgur that is in no way an official MS-publication... I stopped reading.
Before I get into this subject, I need to lay a few ground rules.
First off, making deep or well outlined arguments in 140 characters is nearly impossible, especially with a subject as complex as DRM and used games.
Second off, yes, I’ve done well over the years and I enjoy sharing my success with the community. I remember seeing pictures of Romero’s Ferrari as a teenager and it MOTIVATED me to make my own kick ass games. I hope that by having fun and sharing things with the community I may motivate someone out there to do the same. If you throw the fact that I like sharing pictures of my cars and what not close this blog right now and go back to whatever other site you were reading before this.
Third, I’m pro developer. I do, at the heart of it, believe that you can be profitable and pro-developer while being pro-consumer…if you’re careful with how you message things. I’ve been in the trenches for many years alongside brilliant peers and I’ve heard stories at conferences of talented people getting fucked out of money they deserve. Families lives put in peril due to layoffs. Families forced to move to a strange new city; kids who have to change schools and find entirely new sets of friends. (And don’t give me that First World Problem bullshit, because what I just mentioned sucks no matter who you are.)
Fourth, if you think this is back-peddling understand that I firmly stand by everything I’ve said. I’m writing this to give a surgical explanation behind some of my more…inflammatory posts on Twitter.
(And if you refer to Microsoft as M$, wow, you’re totally blowing my mind man. How creative of you.)
This console launch is the most unique in the business’ history. Even last time when we did have the internet it wasn’t as vocal or amplified as it is now. Giant Enemy Crab, anyone? (Sony’s terrible showing at that e3 proved to not really matter as the PS3 went on to do well in the long run.) What bothers me is the internet pitchfork mob who can only see 6 inches in front of their face without thoughtfully analyzing a situation. Any idiot can go to quickmeme.com. Try writing a fully thought out article on a subject, like the folks at Polygon, Giantbomb, Rock Paper Shotgun, or Kotaku do. (Sorry Gamespot, back of the bus.)
Microsoft tried to and ultimately couldn’t have it both ways. You can’t still have discs and then expect everyone to embrace digital. And, fundamentally, if you take something away that a consumer has been used to without some seriously smooth handling they’re naturally going to get upset.
I love community. I always have, going back to the Unreal/UT days. (Remember Ownage?) I used to love hanging out in the UT chatrooms late at night. My interest did wane a bit in the Gears days as I was frustrated with our mistakes that were made in that era and the negativity that came out of it. But now I see the positive aspects of places like Reddit and GAF (not the negative) and I recognize that community is the backbone of any entertainment experience in 2013 and beyond.
What I hate is the knee jerk dog-pile mob mentality that hit. I realized that not all Internet Memes are truthful or make full sense when I saw this one.
Ha ha, fuck the airlines, right? I mean how obvious is this. The plane can carry a FUCKING SPACE SHUTTLE and the mean anti-consumer airline wants to bill me on luggage fees?
Anyone who actually stops and thinks about this situation would realize that it’s about fuel costs. With Americans weighing more than ever and with fuel costs skyrocketing the airlines were forced to charge fees on overweight luggage so when you’re transporting your dumbells for vacation on muscle beach the cost is passed onto you. This is a business decision, albeit one that wasn’t handled the smoothly when it came to messaging, but my gut is telling me that running an airline is probably as hard as running a game development studio. Richard Branson, the ninja entrepreneur responsible for Virgin Airlines is famous for saying:
“If you want to be a Millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline.”
Now, the other day I tweeted “I mean, I want developers to get money on every copy of their game over Gamestop fuck me right?”
There’s a story behind this. For years Gamestop was a good partner for retail and console games. And then they started looking at their numbers. (And don’t believe what they say about what % of their profit is new to used, believe how they ACT at every single store. Basic life lesson there folks.) And they realized that shit, we keep all of the money from giving someone five bucks on a game that they paid $60 for and we can then go and undercut NEW by reselling the used copy for $55 or so.
Profit. I’d then wager that an executive order came down to rewire every manager to push used whenever possible. And that’s part of the problem. They claim to developers and publishers to want to come to the store for new but when you’re there what is the staff taught to preach? Buy it used!
I’ve said it before, when I was younger and had $42 to my name I traded games all the time and would have bought the shit out of used. Just because I’m successful now doesn’t mean I’ll ever forget that feeling of not knowing how I was going to pay my bills or how wonderful Ramen tasted.
A few years ago Microsoft asked me to go to the Gamestop Manager’s show in Las Vegas. I was knee deep in development of Gears 3 and had already had a ton of press related travel, plus, I fucking hate Las Vegas. (You want to see anti consumer, hoo boy.) But my Microsoft marketing guy told me it would go a long way. He reminded me that it’s a big fun event for the managers who would love to press the flesh. So I flew out there, came on stage, shot a T-shirt gun at the crowd (so fun) met the managers, and did my best to not remind myself that I was in a city that I really don’t like.
Next up was the big exciting midnight launch for Gears 3. Exciting stuff; Big Sean played the event in NYC, the fans were stoked (sent over a few dozen pizzas to the fans in line as a goodwill and fun PR stunt!) and I got to show my future in-laws how amazing this business can be. Cut to flying home and people start sending me pictures of the extremely well put together finely printed leaflets at the Gears 3 launch that said “Trade in this game by November 6th and get more than you normally would on your trade in!”
Motherfucker. We had done a lot of work to keep the disc in tray, but those retail practices are deliberately set up to create a revolving door of game trade in. Folks say “Yeah, but Gamestop helps out a lot of games by pushing them!” to which I quote Chris Rock “Yeah, they’re like the uncle who paid for your college…but molested you.”
Capitalism? Sure. It’s a free market and they’ve got every right to do this. I accept that. However when I see studio after studio closing and the aforementioned alluded titles failing I know something’s got to change.
But Cars and Movies and Books haven’t had this problem, why are games different?
Watch this video, and then come back to this blog, please.
Now, I know only blaming used games really does come across as a whiny answer. There was a brilliant post on GAF that was quoted on Kotaku saying “We didn’t ask for increased budgets, or phoned in sequels, or tacked on multiplayer.” It was incredibly well worded (and I can’t find it in the mountain of e3 news now so someone link it to me and I’ll update this blog with the link.) It’s up to the developer and the publisher to find a way to solve these problems. (And yes, by voting with your dollars, the consumers have shaped where we’re at to some extent. In the AAA space there is a certain graphical fidelity required and rich feature set expected that are causing costs to skyrocket.) Add in the fact that there’s more things than ever in 2013 competing for your dollar and you have to have 8+ figure marketing budgets to run ads and what not.
So here’s what’s going to happen now that Microsoft has largely matched Sony’s (well played) move at E3. The shift to digital is still going to happen (FOR BOTH) but it’s going to be slow and subtle. Suddenly more DLC will be made available. More microstransactions will appear. And Day One Digital will (hopefully) be cheaper and will have so many added bells and whistles that consumers (with reliable enough bandwidth) will have a hard time refusing the tasty downloadable edition over the disc based one.
But you know, none of this shit matters if the GAMES AREN’T FUN AND FANTASTIC. And if they are? No one seems to mind throwing money at them. (Zynga, this is your problem now, btw.)
I’ve said before if I worked at Microsoft I would not only POSITIVELY motivate users to go digital but also offer their own trading system in which they give you MORE money for your game than Gamestop and sell the used games for LESS than Gamestop. Include a Netflix style mailing system and move along your merry way by engaging the customer as opposed to treating them like criminals.
Years from now college courses are going to be taught in propermessaging and they’re going to use Microsoft’s E3 delivery as a worst case scenario. I’ve known many of the folks over there for years, and folks, you know better. Before any presser you’re given a booklet that only says “Here’s what you should say if asked X.” They also brief you on the journalists you’re about to meet with “This is the guy from Giantbomb. He’s smart but has been good to work with in the past. He also likes Hot Pockets and long walks on the beach.” With the stakes this high those executives should have memorized that book and not have been rope-a-doped by savvy journalists who laid a trap for them to walk right the hell into. (Fuckin’ Keighley strikes again)
When users were complaining about changes to Gears’ multiplayer my (bad) answer was often “If you don’t like it, play the previous game you liked so much!” (Which is a thinly veiled Fuck You to the customer, honestly. Holy shit I just admitted I was wrong.)
Microsoft was trying to sell well lit houses that require a fully intact electrical grid to a world that doesn’t have that yet. Nothing made this more obvious than the fact that our servicemen and women of the armed forces are often in poorly connected places. Even Gears had a HUGE military following. And nothing looks worse than saying “forget the troops” because hey, your ass isn’t getting shot at or dealing with IEDs, are you?
I’ll admit, the once every 24 hour check was pretty silly. Customers can smell from a mile away when you’re treating them like children, peeking your head into their bedroom on a regular basis in an attempt to catch them doing something. Here’s the thing about Steam. It doesn’t FORCE you to be online. The ecosystem of Steam is so brilliant, from the community, to the summer sales, to the indie games, that you WANT to get online.
My money is on the PC, mobile and tablets for the near future. I wandered around E3 looking at (too many) fantastic games shaking my head and worrying about how many are going to be deemed a failure due to the fact that yes, it may have sold 4 million copies, but it cost too much to make and market, so it was a wash. (Do your homework, several very high profile games have had this issue and no, I’m not going to call them out here.)
At the end of the day I suppose it’s a beautiful thing that so many gamers actually give a shit and are willing to participate in the debate. Just remember one of the (positive) aspects of Capitalism is that it encourages competition. You don’t want one system to “win” because what happens is that the “winner” then becomes fat and lazy and the consumer has no choice. That choice is what often forces a business’ hand. (Look at the mess that is cable right now; many markets only have one choice so you could wind up fucked with Time Warner.)
By the way, Apple may be the ones who wind up “winning” this entire thing now.
Interesting, I did not read this before today but it is similar to what I said a few days ago.
"CliffyB" wrote:
So here’s what’s going to happen now that Microsoft has largely matched Sony’s (well played) move at E3. The shift to digital is still going to happen (FOR BOTH) but it’s going to be slow and subtle. Suddenly more DLC will be made available. More microstransactions will appear. And Day One Digital will (hopefully) be cheaper and will have so many added bells and whistles that consumers (with reliable enough bandwidth) will have a hard time refusing the tasty downloadable edition over the disc based one.
yup, that's what I figure too. MS wanted to leap forward and be innovative and "first." The public doesn't like change and shot it down. Now they'll still get it but it'll be like boiling a frog. Just turn up the heat slowly.
What I seriously don't understand is why so many people think that going fully digital is such a leap forward. I mean, are we so fucking lazy that we don't want to get our asses up off the couch every few hours to switch out a disc!?!?
Yeah, that's worth putting Gamestop and others out of buisness...too lazy to switch a disc. That's progress.
What I seriously don't understand is why so many people think that going fully digital is such a leap forward. I mean, are we so fucking lazy that we don't want to get our asses up off the couch every few hours to switch out a disc!?!?
Yeah, that's worth putting Gamestop and others out of buisness...too lazy to switch a disc. That's progress.
You're overlooking a few things. First there's convenience. Secondly, the infrastructure is there, pioneered largely by the porn-industry on the net. (saw a very interesting docu the other day about how internet-porn is at the heart of many innovations, web-wise)
I support digital because for me, as a disabled and ill person, it's a godsend. And looking at the climate in stores overhere, who the one after the other close shop or shift their focus away from selling physical games, in the Netherlands digital distribution for gaming and other media is almost a 100% necessity.
(Kinda fun, all that progress has been going on in the Netherlands allready.)
But you know, that digital stuff, people can already do that. No need for an Xbone.
You're overlooking a few things. First there's convenience. Secondly, the infrastructure is there, pioneered largely by the porn-industry on the net. (saw a very interesting docu the other day about how internet-porn is at the heart of many innovations, web-wise)
I support digital because for me, as a disabled and ill person, it's a godsend. And looking at the climate in stores overhere, who the one after the other close shop or shift their focus away from selling physical games, in the Netherlands digital distribution for gaming and other media is almost a 100% necessity.
(Kinda fun, all that progress has been going on in the Netherlands allready.)
But you know, that digital stuff, people can already do that. No need for an Xbone.
I understand the convenience bro, and would never say that we shouldn't have digital distribution, especially for people like yourself or even myself for whom, traveling is difficult. All I'm saying is that I don't see it as a giant leap into the future by going fully digital. There is no reason to drop the physical just so we can have the digital...as we already have it.
No need to shoot all the horses just because we invented the automobile. No need to burn all the books because we have the kindle. Why are we so intent on destroying actual physical property?
I mean I can see why the companies want to do it. It means that much more profit for them...but don't they do well enough already without having to cut this cost too?
You're overlooking a few things. First there's convenience. Secondly, the infrastructure is there, pioneered largely by the porn-industry on the net. (saw a very interesting docu the other day about how internet-porn is at the heart of many innovations, web-wise)
I support digital because for me, as a disabled and ill person, it's a godsend. And looking at the climate in stores overhere, who the one after the other close shop or shift their focus away from selling physical games, in the Netherlands digital distribution for gaming and other media is almost a 100% necessity.
(Kinda fun, all that progress has been going on in the Netherlands allready.)
But you know, that digital stuff, people can already do that. No need for an Xbone.
I understand the convenience bro, and would never say that we shouldn't have digital distribution, especially for people like yourself or even myself for whom, traveling is difficult. All I'm saying is that I don't see it as a giant leap into the future by going fully digital. There is no reason to drop the physical just so we can have the digital...as we already have it.
No need to shoot all the horses just because we invented the automobile. No need to burn all the books because we have the kindle. Why are we so intent on destroying actual physical property?
I mean I can see why the companies want to do it. It means that much more profit for them...but don't they do well enough already without having to cut this cost too?
Well in this case, horses are living beings and since in the developed world they stopped being beasts of burden, they started to fill another role, the least of which is providing equestrigirls with something to do. ^^
Books are litterary art (well some of them anyway) and the kindle adds to them, it does not make books obsolete. Should you want to read a book the old-fashioned way, it's just as good a way as reading it on a kindle. The kindle adds to reading. Personally, give me one good book over the kindle with 7000 titles in memory, but that's me. The "take your library with you wherever you go" slogan was an excercise in stupidity. "Hey man, see my Kindle? It has all my Stephen King novels!" -.-
Games can't switch their role and progress does away with them. You can't play a game without a system to play it on. You can't go old-fashioned and spin the disk in your hands to play it's contents. At a certain point, no matter how retro you are, a game just becomes an object without function.
Enter one of the many perks of digital distribution. Steam/Origin/Square hold my titles indefinately and those titles don't take up space in my house anymore. Win!
What I seriously don't understand is why so many people think that going fully digital is such a leap forward. I mean, are we so fucking lazy that we don't want to get our asses up off the couch every few hours to switch out a disc!?!?
Yeah, that's worth putting Gamestop and others out of buisness...too lazy to switch a disc. That's progress.
Some examples why digital could and is better. Also not sure if you mean in general or console specific, so I will try to label for specific or general reasons.
Early download to activate as soon as you want to on release day. I would also say if you live in the North East or border states to Canada (or Canada for that matter), you do not have to risk frost bite to get a game at Midnight release Nov-April.
Don't have to worry about disc being scratch or ruined and not running. Then having to pay a 20 replacement fee "IF" the publisher offers it. (console)(general)
Smaller and smaller consoles with less hardware to run or possibly break.(console)
Less enviromental impact in the creation/shipping/storing/waste compared to physical media.(console)(general)
More convienent sharing between people.(console)
Faster load times for cut scenes game data.(console)
Quieter running consoles.(console)
More consumer choice and savings for music.(general)(console)
Cost of games will be cheaper, sooner after release (A la Steam).(general)(maybe console)
Not sure if these were enough. If requested I could come up with more.
Less enviromental impact in the creation/shipping/storing/waste compared to physical media.(console)(general)
Sorry Lb, but this one is what the dutch would call a 'drogreden'. I don't know the english equivalent for it. If I were to translate it, I would limp in with 'put-to-sleep-reason'.
Servers use more fossile resources than simple packaging of a physical media-product. (Apart from that, in packaging can be recycled; paper and plastics) and the casing that is in use today is fully recyclable.
Let's put it on a server, that proves we're green! -> gets power from a coalpowered energy-plant.
Wasn't Microsoft even saying that they were to expand the XBL serverpark to 300,000 servers? Even if they were using windmills, they would need a very large windmill-park for that serverpark alone and still need a conventional energy-plant to make up the difference.
If Microsoft was to plant a tree for every server they add, it still wouldn't make up for it. That's why all those green artists planting a tree to offset their co2-footprint is nothing more than a publicity stunt. It's cool they do it and an extra tree is an extra tree, but if Britney Spears really wanted to make a difference in her personal co2-footprint by planting trees, she would need to plant five trees a day for at least a year and switch to green energy, recycle everything and take to riding a pushpedal bike and start cooking on bio-gas, preferably accumulated by her own waste.
A DvD casing has this:
Elements (paper) comes from renewable resources and can be recycled to be paper again. The casing is from fossile-resources but can be recycled to be plastic again and return as something else plastic.
Less enviromental impact in the creation/shipping/storing/waste compared to physical media.(console)(general)
Sorry Lb, but this one is what the dutch would call a 'drogreden'. I don't know the english equivalent for it. If I were to translate it, I would limp in with 'put-to-sleep-reason'.
Servers use more fossile resources than simple packaging of a physical media-product. (Apart from that, in packaging can be recycled; paper and plastics) and the casing that is in use today is fully recyclable.
Let's put it on a server, that proves we're green! -> gets power from a coalpowered energy-plant.
Wasn't Microsoft even saying that they were to expand the XBL serverpark to 300,000 servers? Even if they were using windmills, they would need a very large windmill-park for that serverpark alone and still need a conventional energy-plant to make up the difference.
If Microsoft was to plant a tree for every server they add, it still wouldn't make up for it. That's why all those green artists planting a tree to offset their co2-footprint is nothing more than a publicity stunt. It's cool they do it and an extra tree is an extra tree, but if Britney Spears really wanted to make a difference in her personal co2-footprint by planting trees, she would need to plant five trees a day for at least a year and switch to green energy, recycle everything and take to riding a pushpedal bike and start cooking on bio-gas, preferably accumulated by her own waste.
A DvD casing has this:
Elements (paper) comes from renewable resources and can be recycled to be paper again. The casing is from fossile-resources but can be recycled to be plastic again and return as something else plastic.
A server has this:
Gimme moar powah!
You are correct but, when you factor in the transportation of physical media from the multiple locations of its creation to final resting point, not to mention resorces used in it physical creation (making a dvd) and waste(landfills etc.), burning the data to the disc, etc. etc. Multiplied millions of times over the span for multiple games, I believe you will find it comes at a greater enviromental cost. I kind of canceled out the use of the servers because you are using them for either physical media or digital download. If you are total disconnected from the web, then yeah I guess you could balance the server usage back over to the digital use.
I do not think it will be a huge difference, but a difference non the less. ;)
You are correct but, when you factor in the transportation of physical media from the multiple locations of its creation to final resting point, not to mention resorces used in it physical creation (making a dvd) and waste(landfills etc.), burning the data to the disc, etc. etc. Multiplied millions of times over the span for multiple games, I believe you will find it comes at a greater enviromental cost. I kind of canceled out the use of the servers because you are using them for either physical media or digital download. If you are total disconnected from the web, then yeah I guess you could balance the server usage back over to the digital use.
I do not think it will be a huge difference, but a difference non the less. ;)
You're absolutely correct and so was I too. I did some researching. While I had the right of it, serverside isn't nessecarily greener than physical media, the emisions generated in the production of physical media might prompt the decision to go digital, for which you have the right of it.
(Even if most industries need the government to threaten them with penalties before they become green.)
So what's the kicker? This was a surprise to me. Common households. According to twosides.us, who have published some thought provocing articles on softmedia vs hardmedia, the one factor that's less green than the industry and the one factor that sustains the industry are the households. It appears that industry efforts are offset by our usage of the product.., which underscores my Britney Spears example, though I didn't make the link between industry and consumer.
That was a very good article by Cliffy B and I am in total agreement with him for maybe the first time ever. The switch to digital will happen, there is no denying that. It happened with the PC and will happen to the consoles eventually. If Sony and Microsoft want consumers to switch faster, give them incentive to do so(cheaper prices, extra content).
As for people complaining about the family sharing feature being dropped, Microsoft never fully gave the details on how it worked. I'm still looking for a reliable source explaining it.
I have been lurking about reading all these threads concerning these debates. These been the most intresting thing I have seen on this site in years.It has been making me come back several times daily to keep up. Despite some threads having been locked, I have found them all needed and informative(and entertaining) No matter which way you fall on the subject and how heated the debate the arguements have been terrific in a positive way.
I made my choice last week and committed by pre-ordering. I feel I was informed by your discussions. Thanks.
ps. I am currently building a small shrine featuring Azuredreams,Crytic Cat,Gatsu and Autarch(even maybe shadow) in my front yard as I have particularly enjoyed their comments.
ps. I am currently building a small shrine featuring Azuredreams,Crytic Cat,Gatsu and Autarch(even maybe shadow) in my front yard as I have particularly enjoyed their comments.
Carry on.......I will get more popcorn.
Poor Shadow, all that passive-aggressive posting only to end up as a maybe...
ps. I am currently building a small shrine featuring Azuredreams,Crytic Cat,Gatsu and Autarch(even maybe shadow) in my front yard as I have particularly enjoyed their comments.
Carry on.......I will get more popcorn.
Poor Shadow, all that passive-aggressive posting only to end up as a maybe...
Yesterday I would've said "no way" but now I don't know.
I still think they want it in every box, so devs will actually be able to use it knowing everyone has one.
yeah I can see that as well.
They certainly could, but it's unlikely. They want to give the devs as many options to develop their games with as many options as possible. Since the Kinect was developed a couple years ago, not everyone has it. If it comes with it then it opens doors instead of shutting them.
take this with a grain of salt:
http://www.heyuguysgaming.com/news/12507/heartbroken-xbox-one-employee-lets-rip-must-read
If true, games were timed demos not full sharing. If true, I don't give a crap that it was removed.
You're still losing digital access to all of your disc games everywhere though. And disc check in the drive.
Like you said, if that's what it was truly was gonna be....that's certainly not what they made it sound like. So if it is true, glad they changed policies.
So...how bout that Titanfall? Glorious right? I mean holy shit.
I'm real tempted to preorder a xbone.....despite my own thoughts about not being an early adopter. But damn it's hard to resist.
Titanfall looks nice, but I'm sure it's a balance nightmare. I dunno. I'm very dubious about it.
people may disagree but I think MS's reversal was a win for consumers.
a company may have neato technology and promising new features - but if you bundle it with a bad DRM stick and your PR cannot explain the carrot benefits - the results are just what played out.
Competition and choice usually favors the consumer.
Monopolies and limited choice usually favors the sellers.
I think this fiasco may have hurt Microsoft short term, but if the the Xbox chiefs learned their lesson, it may actually help long term.
Next time, use more carrot and less stick.
I'm sure there is a more consumer friendly path to digital delivery and service transition that BOTH Ms and Sony can profit from that won't cause massive backlash.
as others have said, offer discounts, freebies, dlc, extra service to get gamers to switch to digital - don't just use the big online DRM stick to whack us.
ill do some digging to try and find the link, but apparently the family sharing feature wasnt anything more than an extended demo prompting the person to buy the game every 30min.
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page 2 of this thread MTPathy :) and pretty much every other XB1 thread.
http://youtu.be/xcXdWRJ-xb4?t=2m22s
You know this is bad when it reaches publication I look at for "actual work".
http://www.americanbanker.com/bankthink/what-banks-can-learn-from-micros...
Awesome article, then it links to a bullshit chart on imgur that is in no way an official MS-publication... I stopped reading.
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/DRM-Xbox-One-Cliff-Bleszinski-PlayStation-4-Epic,news-17109.html
Interesting, I did not read this before today but it is similar to what I said a few days ago.
yup, that's what I figure too. MS wanted to leap forward and be innovative and "first." The public doesn't like change and shot it down. Now they'll still get it but it'll be like boiling a frog. Just turn up the heat slowly.
What I seriously don't understand is why so many people think that going fully digital is such a leap forward. I mean, are we so fucking lazy that we don't want to get our asses up off the couch every few hours to switch out a disc!?!?
Yeah, that's worth putting Gamestop and others out of buisness...too lazy to switch a disc. That's progress.
You're overlooking a few things. First there's convenience. Secondly, the infrastructure is there, pioneered largely by the porn-industry on the net. (saw a very interesting docu the other day about how internet-porn is at the heart of many innovations, web-wise)
I support digital because for me, as a disabled and ill person, it's a godsend. And looking at the climate in stores overhere, who the one after the other close shop or shift their focus away from selling physical games, in the Netherlands digital distribution for gaming and other media is almost a 100% necessity.
(Kinda fun, all that progress has been going on in the Netherlands allready.)
But you know, that digital stuff, people can already do that. No need for an Xbone.
I understand the convenience bro, and would never say that we shouldn't have digital distribution, especially for people like yourself or even myself for whom, traveling is difficult. All I'm saying is that I don't see it as a giant leap into the future by going fully digital. There is no reason to drop the physical just so we can have the digital...as we already have it.
No need to shoot all the horses just because we invented the automobile. No need to burn all the books because we have the kindle. Why are we so intent on destroying actual physical property?
I mean I can see why the companies want to do it. It means that much more profit for them...but don't they do well enough already without having to cut this cost too?
Well in this case, horses are living beings and since in the developed world they stopped being beasts of burden, they started to fill another role, the least of which is providing equestrigirls with something to do. ^^
Books are litterary art (well some of them anyway) and the kindle adds to them, it does not make books obsolete. Should you want to read a book the old-fashioned way, it's just as good a way as reading it on a kindle. The kindle adds to reading. Personally, give me one good book over the kindle with 7000 titles in memory, but that's me. The "take your library with you wherever you go" slogan was an excercise in stupidity. "Hey man, see my Kindle? It has all my Stephen King novels!" -.-
Games can't switch their role and progress does away with them. You can't play a game without a system to play it on. You can't go old-fashioned and spin the disk in your hands to play it's contents. At a certain point, no matter how retro you are, a game just becomes an object without function.
Enter one of the many perks of digital distribution. Steam/Origin/Square hold my titles indefinately and those titles don't take up space in my house anymore. Win!
Some examples why digital could and is better. Also not sure if you mean in general or console specific, so I will try to label for specific or general reasons.
Early download to activate as soon as you want to on release day. I would also say if you live in the North East or border states to Canada (or Canada for that matter), you do not have to risk frost bite to get a game at Midnight release Nov-April.
Don't have to worry about disc being scratch or ruined and not running. Then having to pay a 20 replacement fee "IF" the publisher offers it. (console)(general)
Smaller and smaller consoles with less hardware to run or possibly break.(console)
Less enviromental impact in the creation/shipping/storing/waste compared to physical media.(console)(general)
More convienent sharing between people.(console)
Faster load times for cut scenes game data.(console)
Quieter running consoles.(console)
More consumer choice and savings for music.(general)(console)
Cost of games will be cheaper, sooner after release (A la Steam).(general)(maybe console)
Not sure if these were enough. If requested I could come up with more.
Sorry Lb, but this one is what the dutch would call a 'drogreden'. I don't know the english equivalent for it. If I were to translate it, I would limp in with 'put-to-sleep-reason'.
Servers use more fossile resources than simple packaging of a physical media-product. (Apart from that, in packaging can be recycled; paper and plastics) and the casing that is in use today is fully recyclable.
Let's put it on a server, that proves we're green! -> gets power from a coalpowered energy-plant.
Wasn't Microsoft even saying that they were to expand the XBL serverpark to 300,000 servers? Even if they were using windmills, they would need a very large windmill-park for that serverpark alone and still need a conventional energy-plant to make up the difference.
If Microsoft was to plant a tree for every server they add, it still wouldn't make up for it. That's why all those green artists planting a tree to offset their co2-footprint is nothing more than a publicity stunt. It's cool they do it and an extra tree is an extra tree, but if Britney Spears really wanted to make a difference in her personal co2-footprint by planting trees, she would need to plant five trees a day for at least a year and switch to green energy, recycle everything and take to riding a pushpedal bike and start cooking on bio-gas, preferably accumulated by her own waste.
A DvD casing has this:
Elements (paper) comes from renewable resources and can be recycled to be paper again. The casing is from fossile-resources but can be recycled to be plastic again and return as something else plastic.
A server has this:
Gimme moar powah!
You are correct but, when you factor in the transportation of physical media from the multiple locations of its creation to final resting point, not to mention resorces used in it physical creation (making a dvd) and waste(landfills etc.), burning the data to the disc, etc. etc. Multiplied millions of times over the span for multiple games, I believe you will find it comes at a greater enviromental cost. I kind of canceled out the use of the servers because you are using them for either physical media or digital download. If you are total disconnected from the web, then yeah I guess you could balance the server usage back over to the digital use.
I do not think it will be a huge difference, but a difference non the less. ;)
You're absolutely correct and so was I too. I did some researching. While I had the right of it, serverside isn't nessecarily greener than physical media, the emisions generated in the production of physical media might prompt the decision to go digital, for which you have the right of it.
(Even if most industries need the government to threaten them with penalties before they become green.)
So what's the kicker? This was a surprise to me. Common households. According to twosides.us, who have published some thought provocing articles on softmedia vs hardmedia, the one factor that's less green than the industry and the one factor that sustains the industry are the households. It appears that industry efforts are offset by our usage of the product.., which underscores my Britney Spears example, though I didn't make the link between industry and consumer.
That was a very good article by Cliffy B and I am in total agreement with him for maybe the first time ever. The switch to digital will happen, there is no denying that. It happened with the PC and will happen to the consoles eventually. If Sony and Microsoft want consumers to switch faster, give them incentive to do so(cheaper prices, extra content).
As for people complaining about the family sharing feature being dropped, Microsoft never fully gave the details on how it worked. I'm still looking for a reliable source explaining it.
I have been lurking about reading all these threads concerning these debates. These been the most intresting thing I have seen on this site in years.It has been making me come back several times daily to keep up. Despite some threads having been locked, I have found them all needed and informative(and entertaining) No matter which way you fall on the subject and how heated the debate the arguements have been terrific in a positive way.
I made my choice last week and committed by pre-ordering. I feel I was informed by your discussions. Thanks.
ps. I am currently building a small shrine featuring Azuredreams,Crytic Cat,Gatsu and Autarch(even maybe shadow) in my front yard as I have particularly enjoyed their comments.
Carry on.......I will get more popcorn.
Poor Shadow, all that passive-aggressive posting only to end up as a maybe...