XBOX ONE got another performance boost and is now in full production.
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About one month after improving the GPU clock speed, Mehdi added that Microsoft just made another technical boost by upgrading the CPU performance to 1.75 GHZ from 1.6 GHZ.
In the months since Microsoft rolled out (and subsequently reversed) its controversial digital licensing policies on the Xbox One, plenty of people have been asking themselves, "What were they thinking?" According to Microsoft Director of Product Planning Albert Penello, a lot of what they were thinking was simply along the lines of "Man, I hate getting up to change game discs."
"Absolutely true story, one of my favorite stories," Penello told Ars during a recent interview. "People want to know, 'Why did you do this? What was the impetus to go to an all-digital system?' And everybody remembers this scenario: when we did the original Kinect take-home... and we were testing for different homes, different lighting conditions, the beta take-home had all of the Kinect games available to be played off the hard drive. One of the number one pieces of feedback for the take-home—remember, we were testing facial recognition, voice recognition, lighting, gestures—the number one piece of feedback: 'Why can't all my games be played off my hard drive like this?'"
"It really sat with the team," Penello continued. "Once we were able to actually just launch from game to game to game without having to get up and put in a disc—do it right from sitting down at your couch—we were like, 'Holy crap, putting in discs sucks.' No one ever believes me when I tell this story, but that was absolutely the genesis of the whole thing—how can we have a system now where I have my whole game library just sitting on the console, so I [can] switch between games as easy as I switch between apps on my phone."
“Certainly our messaging was horrible”
Looking back on it now, Penello says he's "glad we made the change" to allow discs on the Xbox One to work like they always have. But he also expressed some regret over how Microsoft initially sold its all-digital vision to the public. "Certainly our messaging was horrible," he admitted. "One of the things I think happened is it's something that leaked and people had had time to think about all the worst-case scenarios, so by the time we actually confirmed it... all the rumors about it had been leaking out, and people had gone and gotten themselves into a frenzy about it. When we announced it, people didn't hear everything; they just heard the confirmation of the things that they were worried about."
In Penello's mind, Microsoft was simply trying to go where the industry is inevitably headed. "The truth is, anybody that's in this industry knows we're moving digital. It's already happened with music, it's happening with movies, your cell phone, your slate. PC gaming is completely digital. So I think our premise was 'Let's go digital, why not?'
"There's all these cool things we can do: your games can follow you everywhere, family-sharing types of programs, trying to bring some of the console-type benefits to digital that didn't exist, and people were like, 'Oh, we're not ready, too soon.' So I'm glad we made the change, and again, it's interesting watching people come back, now that we've made the change, go, 'Well actually I kind of like some of the things you guys were talking about.'"
While Penello granted that gamers weren't ready for a "totally different model" for their disc-based games, he noted that they are fine with similar models in other contexts. "If you are used to the Windows model, that Windows disc is exactly that model—it's just a bit delivery system—but people aren't used to that for games. That's one of the things where I think we said, 'You know what, we were a little farther ahead of this change than our customers were. I'm glad we made the change. I don't regret it at all—it was totally the right call."
Penello reaffirmed his belief that Microsoft would eventually arrive at some sort of hybrid model, where digital consumers get the benefits (and restrictions) Microsoft initially laid out while disc-based games are used the manner they always have. The main thing preventing such a model from being put into place for the system's launch, he said, is that Microsoft is too focused on moving the system from the purely digital model it had in place initially.
"Unfortunately, the net effect of the change is we had to go back and redo a lot of work that we weren't anticipating at this point in the program," he said. "It's actually extremely difficult [to change]. It's a totally different purchase flow, it's a totally different UI. We have to think about security differently, permitting the customers when they can be offline and have to be online—it's actually pretty complex. It's not just communicating to the customers but making sure they understand what games they own digitally versus physically and what rights they have. We didn't have to think about those two modes before. It was all just going to be one mode; everything you owned worked one way. Now we have to think about two ways of ownership."
"So the reason we're not doing anything right now [with the hybrid model] is that we gotta launch," he continued. "Everyone is focused on shipping this year... when we get our heads up from trying to ship the box, we'll go back and rethink [how] this hybrid model is really going to work."
Regaining trust and taking criticism
Enlarge/ Penello pointed out that Sony hasn't shown the PS4's guts like Microsoft has for the Xbox One.
To some extent, Penello says, he understands when some people say they don't completely trust Microsoft following its reversal on Xbox One licensing. "I think over the last couple of years, we were focused on those new customers coming in, and I think we lost touch a little bit with the core gamers," he said. "My joke internally is our relationship with the core gamer is like your best friend whose phone calls you didn't return until you asked him for $500.' I think it's fair feedback. I think it was a wake-up call for the team."
At the same time, though, he admitted to some frustration that customers haven't given the company more credit for actually listening and changing things for the better. "I'm more surprised that [feelings of mistrust are] lingering now than that they lingered [after the announcement]," he said. "We had seen that people had been concerned about when it was rumored to be happening, so I sort of wasn't surprised [when it was announced]. But then when I changed back, we were like, 'Hey, we did it, we listened, we're with you,' and now everything we say gets criticized."
Penello also expressed frustration at the way Microsoft was getting treated by the press and observers when compared to a certain unnamed competitor. "I do feel like there's more scrutiny on what we do than on what our competitors are doing," he said. "We have been more transparent, and through that transparency you get to see the sausage getting made. You get to see the warts. Things that the other guys are getting away with is mind-boggling to me."
When pressed, he brought up one example from the coverage of Sony and the PlayStation 4 that he found particularly galling. "I only give this as an example because if this was us it would be the biggest news on the planet: no one has seen their box. No one has actually seen the insides of that box, no one has seen a piece of code running on their box. [Dev kits] are not the retail unit. The form factor they've shown—we showed the inside of our box, the inside of our unit back at E3. Everything you're seeing here is running off production code, except for the games that are still running on PC.
"I still haven't seen anything running on that actual [PS4] box," he continued. "It could be meaningless, I'm not condemning them to anything, but you've got a dev kit that's this big and a form factor that's this big, and I would like to see that running in that box. If we were doing the same thing... when we had that little thing at E3 where [a game] was running on a PC, even though we had said some games would be running on PCs, it was a huge conflict—[people said] we're having connection problems, we're having development problems. Now I'm showing everything running on a real shipping unit, and if the roles were reversed it'd be the biggest [issue]: 'We're all screwed, everything's terrible.'"
Kinect is “as fundamental... as the controller”
To anyone hoping that Microsoft might eventually relent on the Xbox One's Kinect integration and offer a lower-priced box without the 3D camera included, Penello said that while there were no such plans, "nothing's impossible." That said, he suggested that the Kinect was such an integral part of the system that selling it without the camera would be silly.
"Kinect is part of the Xbox One," he said. "It is part of the experience that we're building. It's as fundamental to the platform as the controller is in many ways. It sounds like I'm making up an excuse, but I think someone [could say], 'What if I shipped Xbox One without a controller, because you would prefer a different controller than the one I'm shipping?'
"It sounds like a silly analogy, but it's totally true. There are things you can do only with Kinect plugged in. There are features that are only enabled with that plugged in... We're building everything around Kinect. We're enabling you to not use Kinect, but the experience we're building, everything is built around Kinect."
Part of the problem in justifying the packed-in Kinect 2.0, Penello said, is that consumers are still in the mindset of the old Xbox 360 Kinect. "People think of Kinect on Xbox One the way they think of Kinect on Xbox 360: a motion gaming accessory," he said. "It is not a motion gaming accessory on Xbox One. It is a fundamental part of the platform.
"One of the things we're wrestling with is how many people haven't experienced it," he continued. "One of the challenges we face with an experience that requires you to interact with it is that I can tell you how awesome it's going to be, [but it] doesn't mean anything until you actually get to see it and decide for yourself... I think when it launches and people start using it, I will either be validated or invalidated.
"When we plugged online in in every console [on the original Xbox] and we said online was a core part of every box, people said, 'But I don't go online—why would I want to be online?' I have been through this sort of thing with people before, and all I can say is that we think about it as a fundamental part of the platform."
" "Once we were able to actually just launch from game to game to game without having to get up and put in a disc—do it right from sitting down at your couch—we were like, 'Holy crap, putting in discs sucks.' No one ever believes me when I tell this story, but that was absolutely the genesis of the whole thing—how can we have a system now where I have my whole game library just sitting on the console, so I [can] switch between games as easy as I switch between apps on my phone.""
In Penello's mind, Microsoft was simply trying to go where the industry is inevitably headed. "The truth is, anybody that's in this industry knows we're moving digital. It's already happened with music, it's happening with movies, your cell phone, your slate. PC gaming is completely digital. So I think our premise was 'Let's go digital, why not?'
" "Once we were able to actually just launch from game to game to game without having to get up and put in a disc—do it right from sitting down at your couch—we were like, 'Holy crap, putting in discs sucks.' No one ever believes me when I tell this story, but that was absolutely the genesis of the whole thing—how can we have a system now where I have my whole game library just sitting on the console, so I [can] switch between games as easy as I switch between apps on my phone.""
Ah. So the whole fiasco was based on the stellar thinking that stems from being too lazy to swap a disk. Some of the best parties back in high school grew out of similar rationale. So it all makes sense to me now.
I hope the get to the option of going full digital or not within 6 months of launch. I am all for giving the people the option for staying disc based drm or going digital. I just hope it does not take a year or longer to get there.
PC computing is not fully digital and no it's not an inescapable conclusion that the industry is going to go full digital. It's simply what the industry wants, not necessarily the natural evolution of the technology, and surely not what all the customers want.
The only person an all digital medium benefits is the company manufacturing it. The customer loses all ownership and resale of the products they are buying, and has said resoundingly again and again that we do not want an all digital medium.
Make no mistake, every time the industry pushes for this digital only medium, the customers will push back as we did with the announcement of the Xbox One. If they choose to ignore the customers, I'll revel in watching the products die on the shevles.As we're not that gullible and won't give up the ownership of our games,movies and music anymore than we already have.
PC computing is not fully digital and no it's not an inescapable conclusion that the industry is going to go full digital. It's simply what the industry wants, not necessarily the natural evolution of the technology, and surely not what all the customers want.
The only person an all digital medium benefits is the company manufacturing it. The customer loses all ownership and resale of the products they are buying, and has said resoundingly again and again that we do not want an all digital medium.
Make no mistake, every time the industry pushes for this digital only medium, the customers will push back as we did with the announcement of the Xbox One. If they choose to ignore the customers, I'll revel in watching the products die on the shevles.As we're not that gullible and won't give up the ownership of our games,movies and music anymore than we already have.
Man, this was the kind of tack you were on previously that got people riled up. I'm not going to have a shit fit about it but I will once again register my disagreement with this point of view.
Man, this was the kind of tack you were on previously that got people riled up. I'm not going to have a shit fit about it but I will once again register my disagreement with this point of view.
Not trying to rile anyone up Deep, but I and many others feel very strongly about this point. The push to digital is nothing more than a money grab, and effort to kill the second sale market.
Man, this was the kind of tack you were on previously that got people riled up. I'm not going to have a shit fit about it but I will once again register my disagreement with this point of view.
Not trying to rile anyone up Deep, but I and many others feel very strongly about this point. The push to digital is nothing more than a money grab, and effort to kill the second sale market.
I don't mind a person wanting to own hard copies their games. For me, the change to digital distribution is exactly what I want.
PC = Steam, Origin (Cannot remember the last time I bought a PC disk because what's the point? £10.00 in store or £1.50 on steam?)
Xbox / PS4 = TBC
I don't disagree with you saying some people don't want it, but I think most people do. If not the services above would not be growing year on year with more customers and Music / Movie / game shops wouldn't be going down the shitter.
In regards to ownership do you mean the actual disk or content?
If you mean the plastic that the content is on then cool enjoy but the actual content none owns apart the the people who make the stuff. All we do is buy the rights to own a copy of it. (Kind of like Digital)
Movies = I can still go out an buy all my movies on DVD, Blu-Ray. Ultra Violet is a complete failure. Virtually no one wants it or uses it as evidenced by all Blu-Ray combo packs coming with Blu-Rays DVD's and the digital download. If digital was a success they would not waste the money by including the discs at all.
Music= You can still go and buy a physical CD of almost any band in the world. Yes a lot of people use itunes etc, but a lot of people don't like not actually owning the music they buy or having to pay subscriptions for the privilege of listening to music they already bought once. Again, if MOST people wanted an all digital world, these would also not exist.
PC = You can still buy physical copies of your PC games and a lot of us still do. Also we all know that Steam doesn't discount new games for at least 6 months and it's far from $1.50 for a new pc game. I have steam, and also use GOG and I love them. However, I don't normally buy new games through them. I like most buy bundled older games that I missed the first time around and are getting a good deal on because they are older and without a physical warehouse needed to house the inventory.
As for ownership, I'm talking about the plastic and what's on it. Today if I buy a game and beat it, I can take it and resell it, period. No one else is involved in the process. Hell I can sell it out of the back of my truck, I don't need a licensed dealer or be limited by the fact that it might be second hand when I purchased it. I bought it, it's my property and I'll do what I damn well please with it.
The fact that consumers are so damn lazy that they don't want to get off the couch to change a disc is exactly how the large companies are going to take their ownership away and then all the gaming stores are going to close down. Not just the mom and pop stores who can't compete. Every step closer to this "all digital world" so many are clamoring for, is a step farther down the rabbit hole from which there is no return. It's not like a company's going to go back to making less money by making physical discs again if the consumers decide that they don't like having the large fist of capitalism shoved in their cracks now are they?
Bottom line in my estimation is that there's no reason why we can't have both. If you want digital downloads, they are available, but don't tell me I have to give up my physical copies just because you don't want to get your ass off the couch to change a disc.
The fact that consumers are so damn lazy that they don't want to get off the couch to change a disc is exactly how the large companies are going to take their ownership away and then all the gaming stores are going to close down. Not just the mom and pop stores who can't compete. Every step closer to this "all digital world" so many are clamoring for, is a step farther down the rabbit hole from which there is no return. It's not like a company's going to go back to making less money by making physical discs again if the consumers decide that they don't like having the large fist of capitalism shoved in their cracks now are they?
Well put Azure, you nailed it with this paragraph. Unfortunately this is why the digital crowd will sooner or later take over the majority and we fall to the arms of capitalism once again, it is almost inevitable.
Parcells wishes you were right but you almost lost me a few posts back when you started with "We are not that gullible" Seems to me history will prove that otherwise.
sorry Azure, I don't think you are speaking for "most people" on anything you listed. Maybe you, and some people you know.
And yet the Xbox One isn't an all digital platform.....hmmmmm.
Yeah you're right. The all digital crowd is much more abundant than those who want to keep ownership of their media.
Basically the non-digital crowd are a large enough, and loud, community that it effect profits enough to catch microsofts attention. Also the fact that Sony try to use the whole thing as a way to make themselves look better didn't help. I would suspect that many of the people that were screaming about the xbox one's policies own digital goods and eventually will convert to all digital when it is properly incentivized for them. And then the only people that will be left to bitch to are others like yourself. A small, but loud minority, that no one hears.
Basically the non-digital crowd are a large enough, and loud, community that it effect profits enough to catch Microsoft’s attention.
Ok this is what is called a M-A-J-O-R-I-T-Y .You can belittle it all you like, but the fact remains the an OVERWHELMING amount of consumers stood up and said no to Microsoft’s all digital console. There can be absolutely no disagreement in the amount of consumers who did not support the move away from physical media. Calling this group of people loud etc. is nothing more than sour grapes, as last time I checked text doesn’t have a decibel level.
JimSmyth wrote:
Also the fact that Sony try to use the whole thing as a way to make themselves look better didn't help
Sony didn’t “Try” to use Microsoft’s attempt to go fully digital to their advantage. They “Did” use Microsoft’s attempt to go fully digital to gain the advantage in the market. It was so awkward and poorly executed not to take full advantage of. It was a train wreck and any company would and should have done the same.
Are you blaming Sony for also not trying to go all digital for Microsoft’s reversal? I don’t understand how any of this is Sony’s fault, other than having a better grasp of what their customers want out of their console experience.
JimSmyth wrote:
I would suspect that many of the people that were screaming about the Xbox one's policies own digital goods and eventually will convert to all digital when it is properly incentivized for them. And then the only people you will be left to bitch to are others like yourself. A small, but loud minority, that no one hears.
I’ll guarantee that most if not all of the consumers that complained about an “All digital marketplace” own some digital goods. However, just because we own some digital goods, doesn’t mean that the inevitable direction of the entire business is going to be a completely digital world. I own some sneakers but that doesn’t mean I don’t ever want to own anything else. As I stated above and in numerous other threads, I’m not against some digital goods. Hell I don’t care if they release everything on both physical and digital formats. I simply will not support a company or industry that takes the ability to resell and or rent video games out of it’s consumers hands. It’s anti-consumer and benefits only the games manufacturer.
Take music for example. The MP3 was released in 1995, yet in 2013 I can still go to any mall and buy a CD of my favorite artist. I can also if I desire buy a DVD,Blu-Ray combo….even though there’s 1000 digital mediums for both of these products there is still also a physical one as well. It’s not because it’s more cost effective to offer both. It’s simply because many people are not comfortable with an all-digital marketplace.The whole reason there is even such a thing as a "DVD-Blu-Ray combo" is that so many people still refuse to adopt the Blu-Ray technology...but just a few years ago it was simply a known fact that DVD's would die and Blu-Rays would rule the day. Still DVD's are selling by the millions.
We’re talking about a very slippery slope here and those who you’re denigrating with your post are the ones really trying hard to prevent us all from slipping over the edge of no return. The same thing happened with DLC and Micro transactions. Many saw it for what it was, offering less on the original disc to monetize the hell out of the product on the back end. Now we’re stuck with it, despite how obvious it is that the companies are nickel and diming us to death.
As for my “Bitching” about the industry going all-digital? Well that’s your opinion and you’re certainly entitled to it. However, I as a consumer also have an opinion and as it stands now, you’re the loud bitching minority. Mourning the loss of your imagined all-digital utopia where you don’t have to get off the couch to change a disc. While the rest of us can rest easy, at least for now that our fight is won and the MAJORITY of gamers got the consoles they wanted.
That is until we want to play a different game...then we have to get up off the couch and change the disc. I for one will be doing it with a big smile on my face, knowing that my hobby has not become completely unrecognisable....yet.
Basically the non-digital crowd are a large enough, and loud, community that it effect profits enough to catch Microsoft’s attention.
Ok this is what is called a M-A-J-O-R-I-T-Y .You can belittle it all you like, but the fact remains the an OVERWHELMING amount of consumers stood up and said no to Microsoft’s all digital console. There can be absolutely no disagreement in the amount of consumers who did not support the move away from physical media. Calling this group of people loud etc. is nothing more than sour grapes, as last time I checked text doesn’t have a decibel level.
That is not what I said. The profit margins on a Xbox are slim if nonexistent. The possible loss of even 10% of sales will hurt them badly. The business unit of MS can factor in, to a certain degree of certainty, that some will not buy a unit (who otherwise would) because of factors that they cannot control, i.e. lack of funds. But they can control this and insure that they sell as many units as they possibly can. This is how the minority won. Most people could careless. As far as I am concerned I want less shit in my house. I like my books, movies, and music digital if available.
Azuredreams wrote:
JimSmyth wrote:
Also the fact that Sony try to use the whole thing as a way to make themselves look better didn't help
Sony didn’t “Try” to use Microsoft’s attempt to go fully digital to their advantage. They “Did” use Microsoft’s attempt to go fully digital to gain the advantage in the market. It was so awkward and poorly executed not to take full advantage of. It was a train wreck and any company would and should have done the same.
Are you blaming Sony for also not trying to go all digital for Microsoft’s reversal? I don’t understand how any of this is Sony’s fault, other than having a better grasp of what their customers want out of their console experience.
Again you are twisting my words. I didn't blame Sony. They did what any other business would do in a competitive market place. Basically all Sony did was magnify the voice of a few.
I get it, you don't like where we are heading. The future looks bleak and dark for you. For me it means convenience.
sorry Azure, I don't think you are speaking for "most people" on anything you listed. Maybe you, and some people you know.
And yet the Xbox One isn't an all digital platform.....hmmmmm.
Yeah you're right. The all digital crowd is much more abundant than those who want to keep ownership of their media.
But you really don't "own" the media. The rights to it aren't yours. You don't own the PSN or LIVE or your internet... you're leasing the right to use them, so I don't get where the "ownership" idea is coming from.
You "own" the physical medium that the bits and blobs are stored on. You are esentially buying a right of use for the bits and blobs. That is the "ownership" idea. You can give that disc to a hobo without a 3rd part involved if you wanted.
It's going to be a bad time when the platform holder has total control over distrobution AND pricing. There is only one check on the balance and that's a total tank of sales. Doesn't sound very good for studios/consumers/the industry in general. Nobody is forcing you to go buy some spun plastic, digital is there for you to take advantage of.
I still shake my head at the whole digital "what about game sharing" thing. There is no fucking way they were going to let you freely share a game with 10 friends. It doesn't make any sense.
It's going to be a bad time when the platform holder has total control over distrobution AND pricing. There is only one check on the balance and that's a total tank of sales. Doesn't sound very good for studios/consumers/the industry in general. Nobody is forcing you to go buy some spun plastic, digital is there for you to take advantage of.
Sounds very much like the model Apple use with the appstore, and content there is still only a couple of dollars. Microsoft won't make money selling hardware so it comes down to the volume of software they can sell. If the price is too high people won't pay it even if they've forked out 500 for a console already.
It's going to be a bad time when the platform holder has total control over distrobution AND pricing. There is only one check on the balance and that's a total tank of sales. Doesn't sound very good for studios/consumers/the industry in general. Nobody is forcing you to go buy some spun plastic, digital is there for you to take advantage of.
Sounds very much like the model Apple use with the appstore, and content there is still only a couple of dollars. Microsoft won't make money selling hardware so it comes down to the volume of software they can sell. If the price is too high people won't pay it even if they've forked out 500 for a console already.
The most immediate check and balance I see is competition, Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo...however if Sony tanks that's gonna be bad for both side s of the argument. Nintendo's only relevant to the younger crowd near as I can tell, which truly is Mom n Pop buying for their kids, but I guess they are finally trying to grow up, just as awkwardly as Miley it would seem...
Sounds very much like the model Apple use with the appstore, and content there is still only a couple of dollars. Microsoft won't make money selling hardware so it comes down to the volume of software they can sell. If the price is too high people won't pay it even if they've forked out 500 for a console already.
Hasn't Apple had a few instances where they removed certain apps from customers' phones, not just the App Store, even apps that people have paid for? I think the Apps violated the ToS or something but they did remove them when they wanted.
What would stop EA from not just shutting down servers for old Madden or NHL games, but having Microsoft or Sony remove the actual game from your console so you couldn't even play singple-player -- Hoping that would force you into buying the latest and greatest version. I know some fans buy those every year but there are some who do not.
I think Amazon or somebody is the e-reader business did the same. Wiped the purchase or 'updated' it with a censored version. Sony has pulled games from PSN for being exploitable. I don't think they removed the purchase from the customer.
If you're too lazy to pick up bits on a widget or are comfortable with "owning" more than a license that can be rescinded, go for it. After I'm done with a generation I take all my games and devices and pass them to a kid in my family. I will never do that with digital unless they give me the option to transfer that purchase to another person/username. I don't think they're in a hurry to do that.
I still shake my head at the whole digital "what about game sharing" thing. There is no fucking way they were going to let you freely share a game with 10 friends. It doesn't make any sense.
as much sense as a disc you can share with 10, 20, 30 friends.
I still shake my head at the whole digital "what about game sharing" thing. There is no fucking way they were going to let you freely share a game with 10 friends. It doesn't make any sense.
as much sense as a disc you can share with 10, 20, 30 friends.
I still shake my head at the whole digital "what about game sharing" thing. There is no fucking way they were going to let you freely share a game with 10 friends. It doesn't make any sense.
as much sense as a disc you can share with 10, 20, 30 friends.
What is your point?
my point is they've been letting people share games since game carts were invented. it's not that different. If they didn't want to allow sharing/sale all companies could have put PC-like codes on discs immediately.
Yeah, and a lot of those "consumers who stood up and said no" never had any intention of getting an xbone. They just like bitching about things without doing any research on what the features actualy were
Yeah, and a lot of those "consumers who stood up and said no" never had any intention of getting an xbone. They just like bitching about things without doing any research on what the features actualy were
+1000000 They saw what they wanted to see without really looking at it. I was guilty too until I did some research and ended up switching pre-orders.
XBOX ONE got another performance boost and is now in full production.
http://www.geekwire.com/2013/xbox-update-console-full-production-improved-cpu-performance/ARS TECHNICA article.
Microsoft: Xbox One licensing plan was “a little… ahead” of consumersExec expresses frustration over reporting, says Kinect pack-in is here to stay.
sounds about right.
" "Once we were able to actually just launch from game to game to game without having to get up and put in a disc—do it right from sitting down at your couch—we were like, 'Holy crap, putting in discs sucks.' No one ever believes me when I tell this story, but that was absolutely the genesis of the whole thing—how can we have a system now where I have my whole game library just sitting on the console, so I [can] switch between games as easy as I switch between apps on my phone.""
In Penello's mind, Microsoft was simply trying to go where the industry is inevitably headed. "The truth is, anybody that's in this industry knows we're moving digital. It's already happened with music, it's happening with movies, your cell phone, your slate. PC gaming is completely digital. So I think our premise was 'Let's go digital, why not?'
Ah. So the whole fiasco was based on the stellar thinking that stems from being too lazy to swap a disk. Some of the best parties back in high school grew out of similar rationale. So it all makes sense to me now.
I hope the get to the option of going full digital or not within 6 months of launch. I am all for giving the people the option for staying disc based drm or going digital. I just hope it does not take a year or longer to get there.
you can go full digital at launch - all games will be launching digital as well.
PC computing is not fully digital and no it's not an inescapable conclusion that the industry is going to go full digital. It's simply what the industry wants, not necessarily the natural evolution of the technology, and surely not what all the customers want.
The only person an all digital medium benefits is the company manufacturing it. The customer loses all ownership and resale of the products they are buying, and has said resoundingly again and again that we do not want an all digital medium.
Make no mistake, every time the industry pushes for this digital only medium, the customers will push back as we did with the announcement of the Xbox One. If they choose to ignore the customers, I'll revel in watching the products die on the shevles.As we're not that gullible and won't give up the ownership of our games,movies and music anymore than we already have.
Not trying to rile anyone up Deep, but I and many others feel very strongly about this point. The push to digital is nothing more than a money grab, and effort to kill the second sale market.
Movies = Netflix etc
Music = Google play, iTunes etc
PC = Steam, Origin (Cannot remember the last time I bought a PC disk because what's the point? £10.00 in store or £1.50 on steam?)
Xbox / PS4 = TBC
I don't disagree with you saying some people don't want it, but I think most people do. If not the services above would not be growing year on year with more customers and Music / Movie / game shops wouldn't be going down the shitter.
In regards to ownership do you mean the actual disk or content?
If you mean the plastic that the content is on then cool enjoy but the actual content none owns apart the the people who make the stuff. All we do is buy the rights to own a copy of it. (Kind of like Digital)
Movies = I can still go out an buy all my movies on DVD, Blu-Ray. Ultra Violet is a complete failure. Virtually no one wants it or uses it as evidenced by all Blu-Ray combo packs coming with Blu-Rays DVD's and the digital download. If digital was a success they would not waste the money by including the discs at all.
Music= You can still go and buy a physical CD of almost any band in the world. Yes a lot of people use itunes etc, but a lot of people don't like not actually owning the music they buy or having to pay subscriptions for the privilege of listening to music they already bought once. Again, if MOST people wanted an all digital world, these would also not exist.
PC = You can still buy physical copies of your PC games and a lot of us still do. Also we all know that Steam doesn't discount new games for at least 6 months and it's far from $1.50 for a new pc game. I have steam, and also use GOG and I love them. However, I don't normally buy new games through them. I like most buy bundled older games that I missed the first time around and are getting a good deal on because they are older and without a physical warehouse needed to house the inventory.
As for ownership, I'm talking about the plastic and what's on it. Today if I buy a game and beat it, I can take it and resell it, period. No one else is involved in the process. Hell I can sell it out of the back of my truck, I don't need a licensed dealer or be limited by the fact that it might be second hand when I purchased it. I bought it, it's my property and I'll do what I damn well please with it.
The fact that consumers are so damn lazy that they don't want to get off the couch to change a disc is exactly how the large companies are going to take their ownership away and then all the gaming stores are going to close down. Not just the mom and pop stores who can't compete. Every step closer to this "all digital world" so many are clamoring for, is a step farther down the rabbit hole from which there is no return. It's not like a company's going to go back to making less money by making physical discs again if the consumers decide that they don't like having the large fist of capitalism shoved in their cracks now are they?
Bottom line in my estimation is that there's no reason why we can't have both. If you want digital downloads, they are available, but don't tell me I have to give up my physical copies just because you don't want to get your ass off the couch to change a disc.
Well put Azure, you nailed it with this paragraph. Unfortunately this is why the digital crowd will sooner or later take over the majority and we fall to the arms of capitalism once again, it is almost inevitable.
Parcells wishes you were right but you almost lost me a few posts back when you started with "We are not that gullible" Seems to me history will prove that otherwise.
sorry Azure, I don't think you are speaking for "most people" on anything you listed. Maybe you, and some people you know.
And yet the Xbox One isn't an all digital platform.....hmmmmm.
Yeah you're right. The all digital crowd is much more abundant than those who want to keep ownership of their media.
Basically the non-digital crowd are a large enough, and loud, community that it effect profits enough to catch microsofts attention. Also the fact that Sony try to use the whole thing as a way to make themselves look better didn't help. I would suspect that many of the people that were screaming about the xbox one's policies own digital goods and eventually will convert to all digital when it is properly incentivized for them. And then the only people that will be left to bitch to are others like yourself. A small, but loud minority, that no one hears.
Ok this is what is called a M-A-J-O-R-I-T-Y .You can belittle it all you like, but the fact remains the an OVERWHELMING amount of consumers stood up and said no to Microsoft’s all digital console. There can be absolutely no disagreement in the amount of consumers who did not support the move away from physical media. Calling this group of people loud etc. is nothing more than sour grapes, as last time I checked text doesn’t have a decibel level.
Sony didn’t “Try” to use Microsoft’s attempt to go fully digital to their advantage. They “Did” use Microsoft’s attempt to go fully digital to gain the advantage in the market. It was so awkward and poorly executed not to take full advantage of. It was a train wreck and any company would and should have done the same.
Are you blaming Sony for also not trying to go all digital for Microsoft’s reversal? I don’t understand how any of this is Sony’s fault, other than having a better grasp of what their customers want out of their console experience.
I’ll guarantee that most if not all of the consumers that complained about an “All digital marketplace” own some digital goods. However, just because we own some digital goods, doesn’t mean that the inevitable direction of the entire business is going to be a completely digital world. I own some sneakers but that doesn’t mean I don’t ever want to own anything else. As I stated above and in numerous other threads, I’m not against some digital goods. Hell I don’t care if they release everything on both physical and digital formats. I simply will not support a company or industry that takes the ability to resell and or rent video games out of it’s consumers hands. It’s anti-consumer and benefits only the games manufacturer.
Take music for example. The MP3 was released in 1995, yet in 2013 I can still go to any mall and buy a CD of my favorite artist. I can also if I desire buy a DVD,Blu-Ray combo….even though there’s 1000 digital mediums for both of these products there is still also a physical one as well. It’s not because it’s more cost effective to offer both. It’s simply because many people are not comfortable with an all-digital marketplace.The whole reason there is even such a thing as a "DVD-Blu-Ray combo" is that so many people still refuse to adopt the Blu-Ray technology...but just a few years ago it was simply a known fact that DVD's would die and Blu-Rays would rule the day. Still DVD's are selling by the millions.
We’re talking about a very slippery slope here and those who you’re denigrating with your post are the ones really trying hard to prevent us all from slipping over the edge of no return. The same thing happened with DLC and Micro transactions. Many saw it for what it was, offering less on the original disc to monetize the hell out of the product on the back end. Now we’re stuck with it, despite how obvious it is that the companies are nickel and diming us to death.
As for my “Bitching” about the industry going all-digital? Well that’s your opinion and you’re certainly entitled to it. However, I as a consumer also have an opinion and as it stands now, you’re the loud bitching minority. Mourning the loss of your imagined all-digital utopia where you don’t have to get off the couch to change a disc. While the rest of us can rest easy, at least for now that our fight is won and the MAJORITY of gamers got the consoles they wanted.
That is until we want to play a different game...then we have to get up off the couch and change the disc. I for one will be doing it with a big smile on my face, knowing that my hobby has not become completely unrecognisable....yet.
That is not what I said. The profit margins on a Xbox are slim if nonexistent. The possible loss of even 10% of sales will hurt them badly. The business unit of MS can factor in, to a certain degree of certainty, that some will not buy a unit (who otherwise would) because of factors that they cannot control, i.e. lack of funds. But they can control this and insure that they sell as many units as they possibly can. This is how the minority won. Most people could careless. As far as I am concerned I want less shit in my house. I like my books, movies, and music digital if available.
Again you are twisting my words. I didn't blame Sony. They did what any other business would do in a competitive market place. Basically all Sony did was magnify the voice of a few.
I get it, you don't like where we are heading. The future looks bleak and dark for you. For me it means convenience.
X1 was never all digital. You could still buy and sell game discs even in the initial offering.
However, it was and still is possible to be all digital if that's what you want.
I think you forget whether bits on a hard drive or bits on a piece of plastic, you're still only buying a license to use.
But you really don't "own" the media. The rights to it aren't yours. You don't own the PSN or LIVE or your internet... you're leasing the right to use them, so I don't get where the "ownership" idea is coming from.
You "own" the physical medium that the bits and blobs are stored on. You are esentially buying a right of use for the bits and blobs. That is the "ownership" idea. You can give that disc to a hobo without a 3rd part involved if you wanted.
It's going to be a bad time when the platform holder has total control over distrobution AND pricing. There is only one check on the balance and that's a total tank of sales. Doesn't sound very good for studios/consumers/the industry in general. Nobody is forcing you to go buy some spun plastic, digital is there for you to take advantage of.
I still shake my head at the whole digital "what about game sharing" thing. There is no fucking way they were going to let you freely share a game with 10 friends. It doesn't make any sense.
Sounds very much like the model Apple use with the appstore, and content there is still only a couple of dollars. Microsoft won't make money selling hardware so it comes down to the volume of software they can sell. If the price is too high people won't pay it even if they've forked out 500 for a console already.
Hasn't Apple had a few instances where they removed certain apps from customers' phones, not just the App Store, even apps that people have paid for? I think the Apps violated the ToS or something but they did remove them when they wanted.
What would stop EA from not just shutting down servers for old Madden or NHL games, but having Microsoft or Sony remove the actual game from your console so you couldn't even play singple-player -- Hoping that would force you into buying the latest and greatest version. I know some fans buy those every year but there are some who do not.
I think Amazon or somebody is the e-reader business did the same. Wiped the purchase or 'updated' it with a censored version. Sony has pulled games from PSN for being exploitable. I don't think they removed the purchase from the customer.
If you're too lazy to pick up bits on a widget or are comfortable with "owning" more than a license that can be rescinded, go for it. After I'm done with a generation I take all my games and devices and pass them to a kid in my family. I will never do that with digital unless they give me the option to transfer that purchase to another person/username. I don't think they're in a hurry to do that.
as much sense as a disc you can share with 10, 20, 30 friends.
What is your point?
my point is they've been letting people share games since game carts were invented. it's not that different. If they didn't want to allow sharing/sale all companies could have put PC-like codes on discs immediately.
Yeah, and a lot of those "consumers who stood up and said no" never had any intention of getting an xbone. They just like bitching about things without doing any research on what the features actualy were
+1000000 They saw what they wanted to see without really looking at it. I was guilty too until I did some research and ended up switching pre-orders.