No that would be gunpowder, the crossbow while powerful was slow to load and the armour so designed to deflect arrows and bolts. The real end came with the cannon, as you can imagine that really made armour obsolete. Though for a short time very light and fully enclosing armour was used in close combat to protect from the new rapier style blades. Siege armour used as protection on castle battlements also lasted a few years more, very heavy and thick to resist musket balls.
I would argue that the modern soldier is armored. Armor is just made different. I hear some people at MIT are working on a "liquid metal" suit that has some fairly fantastic stuff built in.
I hear some people at MIT are working on a "liquid metal" suit that has some fairly fantastic stuff built in.
Aint that the truth.
Parcells watched a documentary many years ago called Terminator 2: Judegment Day where a Terminator T-1000 unit was made of mimetic poly-Alloy most often referred to as liquid metal. It is really amazing stuff and for sure not a fair comparison to medieval technology, its a no brainer.
I hear some people at MIT are working on a "liquid metal" suit that has some fairly fantastic stuff built in.
Aint that the truth.
Parcells watched a documentary many years ago called Terminator 2: Judegment Day where a Terminator T-1000 unit was made of mimetic poly-Alloy most often referred to as liquid metal. It is really amazing stuff and for sure not a fair comparison to medieval technology, its a no brainer.
I already have a device that utilizes liquid metal technology...it's called a thermometer.
Awesome. All we ever see in film are the jouter's ( Knights Tale) and the rapiers in Three Musketeers etc...never heard of the light stuff for the fast blades.
No argument, you just shifted the goalposts, the armour under discussion is full plate harness, not modern Kevlar. This is new relatively speaking. Just as shields are back for riot police. Helmets of course have never gone away. Yes modern materials are coming on line, the "metal liquid" is already in use in motor cycle protection and stab vests, no doubt there are even more advances materials being worked on.
So yes Armour is still with us, and indeed is getting back to the full body armour similar the medieval knight. But the point was it was gunpowder rather than the crossbow the rendered the medieval knight obsolete.
Here is a very nice example of the light weight armour, it could also stop a musket ball, and many examples show the dent from a test fire by the maker, I held some components during a behind the scenes visit to the Royal Armoires on Malta...unbeleavably light. The articulation a work of art.
Yeah, if Knight and I are kibbitzing about armor and swords, it's medieval stuff Loc. He's a bit of a subject matter expert on it and I'm just one of the many curious.
I had thought that the crossbow for a bit had done some damage to the armored knight though. I can see where the things weren't quick to reload but the strength and velocity of the bolts at close range were lethal. I knew the musket to some extent definately would have ended the armor thing in general, but those things weren't easy to reload either and probably less accurate than a cross bow. there again the emphasis on close quarters killing, and then relying on the sword after the fact.
Cannons were quite the game changer though. Especially when they were mobile.
Remember the Knight came at you first on a war horse, this cuts down the time you have to load quite a lot, he was followed by the man at arms. Fully armored and very well armed. The Crossbow of the time is only really accurate at quite short distances but then again you a loosing into a mass. But that mass had shields...The Longbow was a far more effective weapon, but unlike the Crossbow needed years of training. This was it's advantage, it could be given, like a gun, to a numpty. Just load,point and pull the trigger. It's best effect was against the lightly armored and peasants which made up the bulk of any army.
Both Crossbow and Longbow did have an effect, but armorers were very good at countering these threats. The most obvious use of bow against Knight was Agencourt but the French were bogged down in swampy land, hampering movement and bunching them up...Bad move by a social elite who could not conceive defeat by peasant bowmen.
I don't get it though. The crossbow had to be cheaper than a suit of armor and all that came with it. And cost being less and ease of use, simple numbers would have overwhelmed the knights even with their accompanyment? Should have anyway. I dunno.
I don't get it though. The crossbow had to be cheaper than a suit of armor and all that came with it. And cost being less and ease of use, simple numbers would have overwhelmed the knights even with their accompanyment? Should have anyway. I dunno.
Actually the crossbow was not cheap but better funded armies could field many, the most famous I guess would be the Genoese Mercenaries who interestingly wore a fair amount of armour, but also the Knight was a high status warrior and mostly would only join battle with other Knights of the same status, this was part of the rules of battle. If the Harness was as vulnerable as you think...Well why wear it? I have allowed archers to loose blunts at me while wearing mine, most would just glance off, sharps may occasionally penetrate but only an inch or so, the padded under jack would save you from the worst of that. Given that crossbows were invented long before full Harness it must have been effective. I will give you that by the late 15thc the tech was producing much more powerful weapons, and would have added to the increasing pressure on the armored Knight. It was only in use really for about 100 years give or take. So really quite remarkable it has held on so long in our imagination.
Fuck Saturday. I hate Saturday. There is not one person in the office to terrorize, bully or womanize.
You could abuse yourself, but then you might not get much work done ;)
LOL!
It never seems like I get a whole lot done on Saturdays anyways. It does make a nice start to the week though. I tie up the loose ends from the week before. I set up a schedule for the comming week.
Belated morning greetings...Today I was mostly hitting a car with a hammer and cursing at iRacing. The car being hit with a hammer was an old Toyota that had been sitting behind my house for a few months. It belonged to a friend who moved to England and somehow it ended up at mine. Well a mutual friend was supposed to collect and sell it. that never happened...Good news for another friend whose car has just died. Take the one sitting behind my house I said. Easier said than done. The brakes had bound to the drums on the back, one flat, and wheels that didn't wish to come off...Hence much hitting with a hammer. Still did the job and one mate drove away happy to be back on the road, and I waved goodbye to a pain in the behind.
IRacing? Huh, wanted to update before I could run it...press the update button, screen goes blank, screen comes back saying "please update" By the time I had it sorted I missed an exhibition race set up by a software company I have been beta testing for...Grrrr.
There's rumors that the site is changing to a google+ or, god help us, twitter type thing. If it does, I'm out. I guess I'm in the minirority, but I LIKE forums. I will NEVER be on twitter. FB sucks, but I'm begrudgingly on it. I refuse to be a twatter. I like lengthy discussions, not "i hate halo" "ikr? Lol" "yer ghey"
Me too, and for us racers the forum format is the only real way we can work, one reason you will find the Forza forum is the most active, It's just the best format for organizing races and race series. My thoughts would be that things have slowed because we are in a vacuum, everyone waiting on the next gen kit to arrive. Once it does there will be a flurry of activaty...Move away from this format and that will be the end of 2O2P in my opinion. We don't mix, I have no interest is what FPS or D&D types are doing in their games, they have no interest in my races. So we will just part ways and threads like this one could never happen. The Good Night Thread has become a meeting point for folk from different genera, but it is notable that there is little gaming talk.
Exactly! Without the forum, we wouldn't have heard anything about your trip except "it was epic." The crossbow discussion would have been "Daryl on The Walking Dead uses one..." Twitter, Facebook, and other such social media not only dumbs us down (Twatville limiting you to 140 characters), but it takes away the personal connections, in my opinion. I talk to you guys more than I do some people in my family. True story. Because my only interaction with them is on Facebook, where I log in, post a quick comment and a few cat pictures, log out, and return to the forums.
I LOVE this site. I know it's not buzzing like it used to be, but if people would stop posting pictures of their fucking sandwiches and saying stupid shit in 140 characters or less on twatville, and actually post on the fucking forum, it would be buzzing again. "Nobody uses forums anymore." REALLY? Go post that shit on Yellow Bullet. I DARE YOU. "We should get rid of forums and only speak to each other in hash tags and short quotes." Fuck that.
I would argue that the modern soldier is armored. Armor is just made different. I hear some people at MIT are working on a "liquid metal" suit that has some fairly fantastic stuff built in.
Aint that the truth.
Parcells watched a documentary many years ago called Terminator 2: Judegment Day where a Terminator T-1000 unit was made of mimetic poly-Alloy most often referred to as liquid metal. It is really amazing stuff and for sure not a fair comparison to medieval technology, its a no brainer.
Awesome. All we ever see in film are the jouter's ( Knights Tale) and the rapiers in Three Musketeers etc...never heard of the light stuff for the fast blades.
No argument, you just shifted the goalposts, the armour under discussion is full plate harness, not modern Kevlar. This is new relatively speaking. Just as shields are back for riot police. Helmets of course have never gone away. Yes modern materials are coming on line, the "metal liquid" is already in use in motor cycle protection and stab vests, no doubt there are even more advances materials being worked on.
So yes Armour is still with us, and indeed is getting back to the full body armour similar the medieval knight. But the point was it was gunpowder rather than the crossbow the rendered the medieval knight obsolete.
Here is a very nice example of the light weight armour, it could also stop a musket ball, and many examples show the dent from a test fire by the maker, I held some components during a behind the scenes visit to the Royal Armoires on Malta...unbeleavably light. The articulation a work of art.
Yeah, if Knight and I are kibbitzing about armor and swords, it's medieval stuff Loc. He's a bit of a subject matter expert on it and I'm just one of the many curious.
I had thought that the crossbow for a bit had done some damage to the armored knight though. I can see where the things weren't quick to reload but the strength and velocity of the bolts at close range were lethal. I knew the musket to some extent definately would have ended the armor thing in general, but those things weren't easy to reload either and probably less accurate than a cross bow. there again the emphasis on close quarters killing, and then relying on the sword after the fact.
Cannons were quite the game changer though. Especially when they were mobile.
Remember the Knight came at you first on a war horse, this cuts down the time you have to load quite a lot, he was followed by the man at arms. Fully armored and very well armed. The Crossbow of the time is only really accurate at quite short distances but then again you a loosing into a mass. But that mass had shields...The Longbow was a far more effective weapon, but unlike the Crossbow needed years of training. This was it's advantage, it could be given, like a gun, to a numpty. Just load,point and pull the trigger. It's best effect was against the lightly armored and peasants which made up the bulk of any army.
Both Crossbow and Longbow did have an effect, but armorers were very good at countering these threats. The most obvious use of bow against Knight was Agencourt but the French were bogged down in swampy land, hampering movement and bunching them up...Bad move by a social elite who could not conceive defeat by peasant bowmen.
I don't get it though. The crossbow had to be cheaper than a suit of armor and all that came with it. And cost being less and ease of use, simple numbers would have overwhelmed the knights even with their accompanyment? Should have anyway. I dunno.
Actually the crossbow was not cheap but better funded armies could field many, the most famous I guess would be the Genoese Mercenaries who interestingly wore a fair amount of armour, but also the Knight was a high status warrior and mostly would only join battle with other Knights of the same status, this was part of the rules of battle. If the Harness was as vulnerable as you think...Well why wear it? I have allowed archers to loose blunts at me while wearing mine, most would just glance off, sharps may occasionally penetrate but only an inch or so, the padded under jack would save you from the worst of that. Given that crossbows were invented long before full Harness it must have been effective. I will give you that by the late 15thc the tech was producing much more powerful weapons, and would have added to the increasing pressure on the armored Knight. It was only in use really for about 100 years give or take. So really quite remarkable it has held on so long in our imagination.
The Knight was the Medieval battlefield equivalent of the modern day tank. How many AK-47s is a good tank worth?
Lol Parcells!
Can it, Sarcasmo.
Can the can it Parcells...
Sorry, I saw this and thought it appropriate here, kinda?
Can it, Oldschool.
Morning peeps!
Yay Saturday work!
Fuck Saturday. I hate Saturday. There is not one person in the office to terrorize, bully or womanize.
You could abuse yourself, but then you might not get much work done ;)
LOL!
It never seems like I get a whole lot done on Saturdays anyways. It does make a nice start to the week though. I tie up the loose ends from the week before. I set up a schedule for the comming week.
Belated morning greetings...Today I was mostly hitting a car with a hammer and cursing at iRacing. The car being hit with a hammer was an old Toyota that had been sitting behind my house for a few months. It belonged to a friend who moved to England and somehow it ended up at mine. Well a mutual friend was supposed to collect and sell it. that never happened...Good news for another friend whose car has just died. Take the one sitting behind my house I said. Easier said than done. The brakes had bound to the drums on the back, one flat, and wheels that didn't wish to come off...Hence much hitting with a hammer. Still did the job and one mate drove away happy to be back on the road, and I waved goodbye to a pain in the behind.
IRacing? Huh, wanted to update before I could run it...press the update button, screen goes blank, screen comes back saying "please update" By the time I had it sorted I missed an exhibition race set up by a software company I have been beta testing for...Grrrr.
I joyfully sent one off to the scrapyard today Knight! And have some cash in my pocket to show for it! It's been a good day!
Oh, and Fitzy, you're not the boss 'o me....can it!
There's rumors that the site is changing to a google+ or, god help us, twitter type thing. If it does, I'm out. I guess I'm in the minirority, but I LIKE forums. I will NEVER be on twitter. FB sucks, but I'm begrudgingly on it. I refuse to be a twatter. I like lengthy discussions, not "i hate halo" "ikr? Lol" "yer ghey"
LENGTHY POSTS ON FORUMS. I LIKE THEM.
Me too, and for us racers the forum format is the only real way we can work, one reason you will find the Forza forum is the most active, It's just the best format for organizing races and race series. My thoughts would be that things have slowed because we are in a vacuum, everyone waiting on the next gen kit to arrive. Once it does there will be a flurry of activaty...Move away from this format and that will be the end of 2O2P in my opinion. We don't mix, I have no interest is what FPS or D&D types are doing in their games, they have no interest in my races. So we will just part ways and threads like this one could never happen. The Good Night Thread has become a meeting point for folk from different genera, but it is notable that there is little gaming talk.
Exactly! Without the forum, we wouldn't have heard anything about your trip except "it was epic." The crossbow discussion would have been "Daryl on The Walking Dead uses one..." Twitter, Facebook, and other such social media not only dumbs us down (Twatville limiting you to 140 characters), but it takes away the personal connections, in my opinion. I talk to you guys more than I do some people in my family. True story. Because my only interaction with them is on Facebook, where I log in, post a quick comment and a few cat pictures, log out, and return to the forums.
I LOVE this site. I know it's not buzzing like it used to be, but if people would stop posting pictures of their fucking sandwiches and saying stupid shit in 140 characters or less on twatville, and actually post on the fucking forum, it would be buzzing again. "Nobody uses forums anymore." REALLY? Go post that shit on Yellow Bullet. I DARE YOU. "We should get rid of forums and only speak to each other in hash tags and short quotes." Fuck that.
/end rant. For now.