In terms of who is fucking who...Those who pirate games are really the ones doing the fucking here. Not people that go out and spend their money and pay the tax imposed by those who steal. If people would just pay for shit...things like DRM wouldn't exist.
The impact of piracy on any media is blown out of proportion. Sale-records for many games continue to be broken even if cracking-crews provide ISOs with anti-DRM wrap-arounds and whatnot on release-day within two hours.
CD-Projekt, the studio behind The Witcher franchise, are even squarely against DRM of any kind and offer game-assets up for grabs so modders can inject textures and what not straight into to other games. Their stance on the market is that if you provide a game that's worth it, it will sell anyway. And they're proven to be right. The Witcher franchise sells like hotcakes and CD-Projekt is healthy and strong. That means that the amount of people who bought a game that was thrown smack-dab in the middle of a pirate-port outnumber the boogeymen.
What you should be angry about is that the industry is punishing legit people like you and me. Blaming piracy is the easy way out, because they're far from the industry killing terrorists they're made out to be. The majority of gamers are legits and they're getting with the stick because of a minority, that is on the scale of the industry alone, fringe.
Agreed Cryptic - don't mess with paying customers for something they don't do.
I guess this means that the 360 is the last microsoft console I own then. Because I'm not paying for a tempbox one. Sucks because I'm gonna miss out on some cool stuff. But I'm not gonna support this.
I guess this means that the 360 is the last microsoft console I own then. Because I'm not paying for a tempbox one. Sucks because I'm gonna miss out on some cool stuff. But I'm not gonna support this.
Buddy, I thought the same thing. When I got the PC up and working a little over a month ago I found it really wasn't that bad. I haven't missed a single thing and have been playing free to play games since. I even tossed one of the game makers some $ for some in game currency.
Although, everything you spend it on doesn't seem to really help in the game? A little confused there but given the amount of time I spend playing, I thought they earned it.
Gatsu I'm with you. Ryse looks really good but I just don't like the MS model. If I pay $60 for a game I want to be able to play it no matter what, unless the system crashes within a month of getting it. I've really enjoyed my 360 and will continue to. However, if I do make the jump to the next gen, unless MS changes some of their practices, Playstation here I come.
I know not everyone gives 2 shits about the 24 hour check-in and drm policy with the xbone. But I for one hope that after they see the response the sony conference has had, that they will rethink their stance on the 24 hour check-in and DRM licensing.
Agreed Gatsu. I hope the 24 hour bit especially gets changed.
Without word ont he customer centric reasons for it, it only sounds like piracy prevention. While it may lessen piracy, it'll also harm legit, paying customers.
Listen to those cheers LOL Not sure I will go for another console but if I do...This is a game console, not a VCR. Bungie's new offering will sooth the Halo itch and most my other console gaming loves are cross platform anyway. Well played Sony.
Listen to those cheers LOL Not sure I will go for another console but if I do...This is a game console, not a VCR. Bungie's new offering will sooth the Halo itch and most my other console gaming loves are cross platform anyway. Well played Sony.
Wow! Can anyone confirm the 3 different pricing sku's that PS4 is rumored to have? If they have $399.00, $499.00, and $599.00 models, that would certainly be a huge help in sales.
****edit**** Nevermind. Found out price is $399.00 Unless MS comes back and lowers some of their restrictions, I'll be purchasing a PS4
Listen to those cheers LOL Not sure I will go for another console but if I do...This is a game console, not a VCR. Bungie's new offering will sooth the Halo itch and most my other console gaming loves are cross platform anyway. Well played Sony.
Eh..I really don't think Destiny is a halo substitue...it is two different type of games in my mind at least. Still I am looking forward to the game and was glad to see some footage of it finally. Also...I'd say a good portion of time was spent on media for the ps4 as well. Just because they said it was media for 'gamers' doesn't change the fact it is still rental services for movies, music and tv being added/adjusted just like the new x1.
I do hope MS takes notice of the reaction to the PS4 and redefines its policies somewhat, but that is probably foolish hope as well.
Not a substitute as such but it will have Bungies stamp all over it, and that is what made Halo what it was. Time for a new franchise for the next ten years :)
Sure there is media stuff as well, but this is a devise that holds gaming at it's core. I am not anti media content as such, use the 360 for the odd movie after all.
No it's just they hit all the right notes and I have never been a fanboy, it just happened that Xbox hit the spot for the first two iterations and this time they alienated me and Sony stepped up and said hey remember Bungie and secondhand gameshops and playing singleplayer offline? Yup all is well in the world. My PC has become my first love during the wait for the next gen consoles, but there is one now that will sit in place of my much loved 360 and do exactly what that did but better, and that is what I wanted.
I can see the options presented, including access are probably a much better fir for you with SOny Knight. I'm not a fan of GT and that's probably the biggest thing for me not switching over.
I do have to admit, being a gearhead and rarely playing any other games, there were a few revealed for the Xbox that appealed to me. 4 or 5 actually. And my 18 yr old sitting next to me really liked Sunset Overdrive and Spark, with the Zombie thing a close third.
Still W8nC4Me, I won't be a day one'r but I'll be waiting on some first hand information from our members experiences I think.
I can see the options presented, including access are probably a much better fir for you with SOny Knight. I'm not a fan of GT and that's probably the biggest thing for me not switching over.
I do have to admit, being a gearhead and rarely playing any other games, there were a few revealed for the Xbox that appealed to me. 4 or 5 actually. And my 18 yr old sitting next to me really liked Sunset Overdrive and Spark, with the Zombie thing a close third.
Still W8nC4Me, I won't be a day one'r but I'll be waiting on some first hand information from our members experiences I think.
I know nothing of the GT series but I can't see me moving from PC for Sim Racing anyway, so it is just for that occational simcade hit. But yes this time around Sony have hit the spot for my personal needs from a game console. Not that I am going to rush out in the first days to buy it by any means.
Semi OT but is there a video out there yet of the PS4 UI? I have both a 360 and a ps3, but basicly just used the ps3 for blu-ray movies. I figured since I may end up getting a ps4 I should check out the ps3 a little bit. Now...granted it may be because I am so used the the 360 interface, but the damn ps3 just confuses me and feels clunky. I did a system update..then tried poking around in some of the features..which required more updates..and just trying to find things or look at account settings and having to enter my password everytime I blinked was slightly annoying. The x1 interface seems the same maybe slightly streamlined..has the ps4 interface been changed at all?
I guess to be fair I should just ask does it need to be or does it grow in time to be easier then I'm giving it credit for?
Side note: People are odd no matter what system you get on...my first experience in ps Home I create an avatar and appear in what looks like an outside strip mall..to have someone walk up to me and whisper "Hey, you're white." then walk off...
I only mentioned the avatar thing as I have some points dangling and they are going to be extinct by the end of the year I'm guessing? SO, avatar fluff if nothing else.
Even if piracy is overstated, it's still a problem. We all go to work everyday and exchange our talent and expertise for pay. If you were shorted on your paycheck even 1 hour, you would go right to payroll and ask for what is yours. Companies, especially public, have a responsibility to build wealth for their shareholders by selling products consumers value. If the cost of preventing stealing will provide a return, they're obligated to take that action. In the best case scenario honest customers are not affected, but that often isn't the case.
I personally don't rent or lend games so the DRM stuff isn't factoring in to my buying decision...but hopefully MS will come up with an equitable solution for people that do (especially given that it sounds like PS4 has this covered).
Even if piracy is overstated, it's still a problem. We all go to work everyday and exchange our talent and expertise for pay. If you were shorted on your paycheck even 1 hour, you would go right to payroll and ask for what is yours. Companies, especially public, have a responsibility to build wealth for their shareholders by selling products consumers value. If the cost of preventing stealing will provide a return, they're obligated to take that action. In the best case scenario honest customers are not affected, but that often isn't the case.
Eh, payroll troubles, the world is the same everywhere you go. I always had a nice trick... no more overtime... exactly at punch-out I was going home. Amazing how fast backpay can be in your bank-account. ^^
I agree that a corp has to cover all the bases, though in the case of revenue, cry me a river and be done with it. Honestly. The individual in that corp is still getting payed and the brass upstairs can still fondle their golfclubs. It is not right to get smacked over the head for using stuff you bought with honest money by the corp you bought it from in the first place. As a consumer, it's your duty to scrutinize the brand your buying and you have certain rights as a consumer too.
Giving all of that up just to be able to do your hobby is not worth it. You're not a pirate, I'm not a pirate and as such we should be respected and valued customers. If not, we should take our money elsewhere. That goes from the shoeshine-kid on the corner of 7th and Almeida to the guys that provide 'premium' services, whatever those services may be.
If anyone here is bitching about the DRM and has bought Diablo III or Sim City, then they are a hypocrite, honestly. You can't sell either of those and you can't play them without being connected. Not just a check - CONNECTED. And they are single player games.
Shadow one nice thing for saving money and consumer decisions on Sony's side is that their Eye/Kinect is optional. It isn't required to buy the 100 dollar thing to make up the difference if people don't want it.
This was the case for Xbox 360 and PS3 too - people said you had to buy all this stuff on Xbox 360 to make up the difference, but the thing was that people didn't actually have to buy it.
I'm still mad about SimCity, not because I can't resell it or trade it in, but because the game has bugs and defects. This is unrelated to its internet connection. Diablo 3 I think had worse gameplay design than Diablo 2 but again, thats not an Internet connection issue. I played Diablo 2 multiplayer far more than alone, and when alone I played Diablo 2 on closed battle.net anyways. Was very nice to have my character stored on a server, and be able to play it from any PC with Diablo 2 installed. I just logged in.
Shadow one nice thing for saving money and consumer decisions on Sony's side is that their Eye/Kinect is optional. It isn't required to buy the 100 dollar thing to make up the difference if people don't want it.
This was the case for Xbox 360 and PS3 too - people said you had to buy all this stuff on Xbox 360 to make up the difference, but the thing was that people didn't actually have to buy it.
I'm still mad about SimCity, not because I can't resell it or trade it in, but because the game has bugs and defects. This is unrelated to its internet connection. Diablo 3 I think had worse gameplay design than Diablo 2 but again, thats not an Internet connection issue. I played Diablo 2 multiplayer far more than alone, and when alone I played Diablo 2 on closed battle.net anyways. Was very nice to have my character stored on a server, and be able to play it from any PC with Diablo 2 installed. I just logged in.
I had a TON of days I couldn't even log into Diablo III to play it. I paid $60 for a program I couldn't run some days. Some days the auction house was down and I couldn't get my money, etc. It was a nightmare for the first couple months. Their servers sucked.
I guess it comes down to whether you think capitalism is a four letter word or not...and whether you personally are affected by stricter DRM.
I don't and am not. But to each their own. Pre-orders for both systems are up. And well...you could always go get one of those Wii U's.
Nah, I unevenly split me time between my PC and my 360 (which does collect quite a lot of dust between sessions).
Just this:
'Don't mind me.., I'm just checking if you have posting rights in this thread, Tdrag. Phoning home right now, please hold. Rogue-posters you see, doesn't happen that often, but they are a real, big, huge, problem. For all we know, even since you're here for years, you're a *gasp* rogue-poster. Since you and rogue-posters are both using our system, you're guilty by association. I'm sure you understand. Oh, everything is in order. We'll check back tomorrow, because we don't trust that you'll still be legit by then.'
I'm not affected by DRM either, don't buy or sell used games, AND don't like feeling I'm being accused of being dishonest, and yet that's how I feel.
Honestly, that's like leaving the bank vault door open and saying "I'm going to look away - don't steal anything!" "I won't!!"
Sorry, it doesn't work.
I don't see how me not participating in the used game market is leaving a vault door open, or exposing the entire industry to risk?
What I said, to paraphrase, as it is apparently needed, is I don't like being told I can't be trusted but they still want my money...
They can DRM the industry to hell and back, I don't care, because I don't buy oor sell used games. Is that clearer?
However, I do like the concept of innocent until proven guilty. I don't like having MY machine checked everyday to make sure I'm still innocent and if I don't, I don't care why, it won't work. It's akin to house arrest or violation of some form of parole as far as I'm concerned.
I guess it comes down to whether you think capitalism is a four letter word or not...and whether you personally are affected by stricter DRM.
Not necessarily. I loves me some smartly implemented capitalism. But if I have enuf of it jammed down my throat it eventually leaves a bad taste in my mouth, especially when applied to things that are supposed to be fun. Makes my wallet clamp shut.
Moving forward, isn’t the alleged piracy issue self-induced by the “thou shalt install game on hard drive” requirement?
I guess it comes down to whether you think capitalism is a four letter word or not...and whether you personally are affected by stricter DRM.
Not necessarily. I loves me some smartly implemented capitalism. But if I have enuf of it jammed down my throat it eventually leaves a bad taste in my mouth, especially when applied to things that are supposed to be fun. Makes my wallet clamp shut.
Moving forward, isn’t the alleged piracy issue self-induced by the “thou shalt install game on hard drive” requirement?
Well voting with your wallet is something we agree on.
I am not a technologist so I won't chime in on "how" it should work and whether installed games cause more/less problems, or the best way to implement such solution to not adversely affect honest customers.
My point is that I don't think it's unreasonable for companies to actively take steps to protect their IP. And I'm in the lucky market segment that watches movies once, plays games once, rarely re-sells games, and basically never rents games.
I'm not saying other people shouldn't be concerned because I have no expectation that people game the same way I do.
Agreed Cryptic - don't mess with paying customers for something they don't do.
I guess this means that the 360 is the last microsoft console I own then. Because I'm not paying for a tempbox one. Sucks because I'm gonna miss out on some cool stuff. But I'm not gonna support this.
Buddy, I thought the same thing. When I got the PC up and working a little over a month ago I found it really wasn't that bad. I haven't missed a single thing and have been playing free to play games since. I even tossed one of the game makers some $ for some in game currency.
Although, everything you spend it on doesn't seem to really help in the game? A little confused there but given the amount of time I spend playing, I thought they earned it..gif "1")
Gatsu I'm with you. Ryse looks really good but I just don't like the MS model. If I pay $60 for a game I want to be able to play it no matter what, unless the system crashes within a month of getting it. I've really enjoyed my 360 and will continue to. However, if I do make the jump to the next gen, unless MS changes some of their practices, Playstation here I come.
I know not everyone gives 2 shits about the 24 hour check-in and drm policy with the xbone. But I for one hope that after they see the response the sony conference has had, that they will rethink their stance on the 24 hour check-in and DRM licensing.
Agreed Gatsu. I hope the 24 hour bit especially gets changed.
Without word ont he customer centric reasons for it, it only sounds like piracy prevention. While it may lessen piracy, it'll also harm legit, paying customers.
Baby with the bathwater, I suppose.
http://youtu.be/2Ht-0Hne4EU
Listen to those cheers LOL Not sure I will go for another console but if I do...This is a game console, not a VCR. Bungie's new offering will sooth the Halo itch and most my other console gaming loves are cross platform anyway. Well played Sony.
Wow! Can anyone confirm the 3 different pricing sku's that PS4 is rumored to have? If they have $399.00, $499.00, and $599.00 models, that would certainly be a huge help in sales.
****edit**** Nevermind. Found out price is $399.00 Unless MS comes back and lowers some of their restrictions, I'll be purchasing a PS4
Eh..I really don't think Destiny is a halo substitue...it is two different type of games in my mind at least. Still I am looking forward to the game and was glad to see some footage of it finally. Also...I'd say a good portion of time was spent on media for the ps4 as well. Just because they said it was media for 'gamers' doesn't change the fact it is still rental services for movies, music and tv being added/adjusted just like the new x1.
I do hope MS takes notice of the reaction to the PS4 and redefines its policies somewhat, but that is probably foolish hope as well.
As you say though..well played Sony.
After the Sony presentation, I'd say M$ may shift their price point, even by $50? Free market pressure is the best kind.
Still a W8nC...
how? You know the Kinect costs at least $100. Take that out and they're at the same price point already.
Not a substitute as such but it will have Bungies stamp all over it, and that is what made Halo what it was. Time for a new franchise for the next ten years :)
Sure there is media stuff as well, but this is a devise that holds gaming at it's core. I am not anti media content as such, use the 360 for the odd movie after all.
No it's just they hit all the right notes and I have never been a fanboy, it just happened that Xbox hit the spot for the first two iterations and this time they alienated me and Sony stepped up and said hey remember Bungie and secondhand gameshops and playing singleplayer offline? Yup all is well in the world. My PC has become my first love during the wait for the next gen consoles, but there is one now that will sit in place of my much loved 360 and do exactly what that did but better, and that is what I wanted.
I can see the options presented, including access are probably a much better fir for you with SOny Knight. I'm not a fan of GT and that's probably the biggest thing for me not switching over.
I do have to admit, being a gearhead and rarely playing any other games, there were a few revealed for the Xbox that appealed to me. 4 or 5 actually. And my 18 yr old sitting next to me really liked Sunset Overdrive and Spark, with the Zombie thing a close third.
Still W8nC4Me, I won't be a day one'r but I'll be waiting on some first hand information from our members experiences I think.
I know nothing of the GT series but I can't see me moving from PC for Sim Racing anyway, so it is just for that occational simcade hit. But yes this time around Sony have hit the spot for my personal needs from a game console. Not that I am going to rush out in the first days to buy it by any means.
Semi OT but is there a video out there yet of the PS4 UI? I have both a 360 and a ps3, but basicly just used the ps3 for blu-ray movies. I figured since I may end up getting a ps4 I should check out the ps3 a little bit. Now...granted it may be because I am so used the the 360 interface, but the damn ps3 just confuses me and feels clunky. I did a system update..then tried poking around in some of the features..which required more updates..and just trying to find things or look at account settings and having to enter my password everytime I blinked was slightly annoying. The x1 interface seems the same maybe slightly streamlined..has the ps4 interface been changed at all?
I guess to be fair I should just ask does it need to be or does it grow in time to be easier then I'm giving it credit for?
Side note: People are odd no matter what system you get on...my first experience in ps Home I create an avatar and appear in what looks like an outside strip mall..to have someone walk up to me and whisper "Hey, you're white." then walk off...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OegYm1dM9g
I only mentioned the avatar thing as I have some points dangling and they are going to be extinct by the end of the year I'm guessing? SO, avatar fluff if nothing else.
Even if piracy is overstated, it's still a problem. We all go to work everyday and exchange our talent and expertise for pay. If you were shorted on your paycheck even 1 hour, you would go right to payroll and ask for what is yours. Companies, especially public, have a responsibility to build wealth for their shareholders by selling products consumers value. If the cost of preventing stealing will provide a return, they're obligated to take that action. In the best case scenario honest customers are not affected, but that often isn't the case.
I personally don't rent or lend games so the DRM stuff isn't factoring in to my buying decision...but hopefully MS will come up with an equitable solution for people that do (especially given that it sounds like PS4 has this covered).
Eh, payroll troubles, the world is the same everywhere you go. I always had a nice trick... no more overtime... exactly at punch-out I was going home. Amazing how fast backpay can be in your bank-account. ^^
I agree that a corp has to cover all the bases, though in the case of revenue, cry me a river and be done with it. Honestly. The individual in that corp is still getting payed and the brass upstairs can still fondle their golfclubs. It is not right to get smacked over the head for using stuff you bought with honest money by the corp you bought it from in the first place. As a consumer, it's your duty to scrutinize the brand your buying and you have certain rights as a consumer too.
Giving all of that up just to be able to do your hobby is not worth it. You're not a pirate, I'm not a pirate and as such we should be respected and valued customers. If not, we should take our money elsewhere. That goes from the shoeshine-kid on the corner of 7th and Almeida to the guys that provide 'premium' services, whatever those services may be.
It really is that simple.
If anyone here is bitching about the DRM and has bought Diablo III or Sim City, then they are a hypocrite, honestly. You can't sell either of those and you can't play them without being connected. Not just a check - CONNECTED. And they are single player games.
Shadow one nice thing for saving money and consumer decisions on Sony's side is that their Eye/Kinect is optional. It isn't required to buy the 100 dollar thing to make up the difference if people don't want it.
This was the case for Xbox 360 and PS3 too - people said you had to buy all this stuff on Xbox 360 to make up the difference, but the thing was that people didn't actually have to buy it.
I'm still mad about SimCity, not because I can't resell it or trade it in, but because the game has bugs and defects. This is unrelated to its internet connection. Diablo 3 I think had worse gameplay design than Diablo 2 but again, thats not an Internet connection issue. I played Diablo 2 multiplayer far more than alone, and when alone I played Diablo 2 on closed battle.net anyways. Was very nice to have my character stored on a server, and be able to play it from any PC with Diablo 2 installed. I just logged in.
I had a TON of days I couldn't even log into Diablo III to play it. I paid $60 for a program I couldn't run some days. Some days the auction house was down and I couldn't get my money, etc. It was a nightmare for the first couple months. Their servers sucked.
Agreed again Cryptic. Reward, not restrict, paying customers.
I guess it comes down to whether you think capitalism is a four letter word or not...and whether you personally are affected by stricter DRM.
I don't and am not. But to each their own. Pre-orders for both systems are up. And well...you could always go get one of those Wii U's.
Nah, I unevenly split me time between my PC and my 360 (which does collect quite a lot of dust between sessions).
Just this:
'Don't mind me.., I'm just checking if you have posting rights in this thread, Tdrag. Phoning home right now, please hold. Rogue-posters you see, doesn't happen that often, but they are a real, big, huge, problem. For all we know, even since you're here for years, you're a *gasp* rogue-poster. Since you and rogue-posters are both using our system, you're guilty by association. I'm sure you understand. Oh, everything is in order. We'll check back tomorrow, because we don't trust that you'll still be legit by then.'
I'm not affected by DRM either, don't buy or sell used games, AND don't like feeling I'm being accused of being dishonest, and yet that's how I feel.
Honestly, that's like leaving the bank vault door open and saying "I'm going to look away - don't steal anything!" "I won't!!"
Sorry, it doesn't work.
I don't see how me not participating in the used game market is leaving a vault door open, or exposing the entire industry to risk?
What I said, to paraphrase, as it is apparently needed, is I don't like being told I can't be trusted but they still want my money...
They can DRM the industry to hell and back, I don't care, because I don't buy oor sell used games. Is that clearer?
However, I do like the concept of innocent until proven guilty. I don't like having MY machine checked everyday to make sure I'm still innocent and if I don't, I don't care why, it won't work. It's akin to house arrest or violation of some form of parole as far as I'm concerned.
Not necessarily. I loves me some smartly implemented capitalism. But if I have enuf of it jammed down my throat it eventually leaves a bad taste in my mouth, especially when applied to things that are supposed to be fun. Makes my wallet clamp shut.
Moving forward, isn’t the alleged piracy issue self-induced by the “thou shalt install game on hard drive” requirement?
Well voting with your wallet is something we agree on.
I am not a technologist so I won't chime in on "how" it should work and whether installed games cause more/less problems, or the best way to implement such solution to not adversely affect honest customers.
My point is that I don't think it's unreasonable for companies to actively take steps to protect their IP. And I'm in the lucky market segment that watches movies once, plays games once, rarely re-sells games, and basically never rents games.
I'm not saying other people shouldn't be concerned because I have no expectation that people game the same way I do.